Leighton Baines

ISSYNAZAR said:
It's like the Carrick debate...one of the key cogs central to a period of success stretched over 7 seasons, he's barely been able to make an impact with a bit-part role for England. It's not a reflection on how good a player he is, it's the mentality of our managers who are picking the same failing players (at international level) even though it's clearly not worked and in the case of players like Cole in regards to Baines, as well as Gerrard/Lampard in regard to Carrick its not really an indication as to who is 'better'.

They can't establish themselves because even after a good solid game, when the golden generation are fit and available they will play in the big, meaningful games.
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I don't agree with this Carrick assessment. I think it's short termism, and perhaps a bit of United bias thrown in too, to suggest that Carrick has basically played like this for 7 years, but nobody has noticed. Many have claimed or implied it this season. Carrick has not, over the years, put in a level of performance that demands his selection for the national team. People can always talk about a favouritism for the likes of Gerrard/Lampard, but I remember when they were coming up and on the fringes of the England team. I remember a 12 month period where Lampard got loads of goals in friendlies and sub appearances, and he simply demanded inclusion. As did Gerrard. He became good to a point where he had to play. Think of Gerrard at his peak, when Liverpool won the CL.

Carrick has not scaled these heights, and I am not buying the huge injustice theory. Yes, he's been good to the point where, another manager may have played him and not been criticised. But until this season, his performances have not demanded inclusion, and coincidentally, this season he has been starting regularly for England.

Sorry to digress. To make it relevant, I think Baines has been good, but not until recently, coupled with Cole's decline, has he really shouted loudly enough to be a regular.
 
Rozay said:
It's a shame we missed out on Jordi Alba last summer. Better than both Baines and Evra for me, plus much younger than them and went for about £11m.
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Yes because we would have so signed him with Barca also in the race to sign him.
 
Leg-End said:
Define short term, Baines is only 28. It's not out of the question he is the player he is right now for atleast another 4 seasons.

Not every player has to be 22 and here for 15 years in order to be value for money.
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I completely agree, but Evra has been an absolute freak when it comes to avoiding injury and has been here for the past 7 or so years. Maybe short term is the wrong terminology to use, but if we went and spent 20m on him and he ended up doing an Ashley Young on us(who was hardly ever injured for Aston Villa.), well then that'd be a bit of a kick in the teeth.
 
Commadus said:
Coming from you. Take that as a compliment.

Baines will be another Ashley Young. Overpriced and overpaid.
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What's it to you? Every aspect of United is always shit according to you.
 
RDCR07 said:
Yes because we would have so signed him with Barca also in the race to sign him.
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Is that supposed to be clever or something? You are the second person who does not seem to understand what it means to 'miss out' on a player.
 
Shark22 said:
I completely agree, but Evra has been an absolute freak when it comes to avoiding injury and has been here for the past 7 or so years. Maybe short term is the wrong terminology to use, but if we went and spent 20m on him and he ended up doing an Ashley Young on us(who was hardly ever injured for Aston Villa.), well then that'd be a bit of a kick in the teeth.
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Baines has been a freak with avoiding injury too. Him and Evra have a similar number of PL appearances since Baines joined Everton.
 
Rozay said:
Is that supposed to be sarcastic or something? You are the second person who does not seem to understand what it means to 'miss out' on a player.
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It's not missing out on a player if the player isn't interested.
 
SilentWitness said:
It's not missing out on a player if the player isn't interested.
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If the player is interested I imagine they will join you. It is missing out on a player if you are interested in signing him, but fail to.
 
Rozay said:
I don't agree with this Carrick assessment. I think it's short termism, and perhaps a bit of United bias thrown in too, to suggest that Carrick has basically played like this for 7 years, but nobody has noticed. Many have claimed or implied it this season. Carrick has not, over the years, put in a level of performance that demands his selection for the national team. People can always talk about a favouritism for the likes of Gerrard/Lampard, but I remember when they were coming up and on the fringes of the England team. I remember a 12 month period where Lampard got loads of goals in friendlies and sub appearances, and he simply demanded inclusion. As did Gerrard. He became good to a point where he had to play. Think of Gerrard at his peak, when Liverpool won the CL.

Carrick has not scaled these heights, and I am not buying the huge injustice theory. Yes, he's been good to the point where, another manager may have played him and not been criticised. But until this season, his performances have not demanded inclusion, and coincidentally, this season he has been starting regularly for England.

Sorry to digress. To make it relevant, I think Baines has been good, but not until recently, coupled with Cole's decline, has he really shouted loudly enough to be a regular.
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I don't want to go into too much of a Carrick/England tangent...but that's part of the problem, they've scored goals and have the flamboyancy to their game, but it's often argued that despite being fantastic players, playing them together has harmed England whilst also leaving us lagging from a tactical and technical view. Neither Lampard or Gerrard in their prime could be seen as out and out central midfielders however for England they had to be just that. It hasn't worked. Demanding selection is more than scoring goals from midfield, especially if you're part of a team that can't keep hold of the ball and concede silly goals too. But enough on that...

On club form, Baines demands England selection but doesn't get it. Main reason in my opinion, Ashley Cole getting in on reputation of the past. He's arguably the best left back in the league and has been for the last two seasons.

It's a weird prospective transfer because there isn't a long term view from most people despite the fact he'd probably cost just shy of £20m, but he's a well-balanced left-back with a tremendous left foot. The only time I've ever seen anyone do him over was when Valencia wasn't afraid to run at people, other than that looks a generally very solid player.
 
Rozay said:
If the player is interested I imagine they will join you. It is missing out on a player if you are interested in signing him, but fail to.
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Was there an official bid from United for Alba? THAT would be missing out. Being interested means nothing.
 
I really, really don't like the rumours that United have put in a bid for Baines. He's good, but imo he isn't better than Evra, so no point. He isn't young and promising either. Keeping Evra we could ease Fabio or Shaw (!!) into the first team, but with Baines who still has four good years in him, they would be stupid not to want more playing time. Me not like! (but really, who gives a shit?)
 
RedSky At Night said:
Yet Ashley Cole still gets picked ahead of him in Internationals. I know that's a pretty shite accusation, but there is a point to it. If Baines really was as good as people make out, he'd have established himself in the International team ahead of Cole (who's form has been pretty mediocre for a season or two now) and be at a bigger club than Everton.

How much more would he improve the club? Would he even improve the club? He'll be 29 in December, so it's not like we're spending the cash on a player who's significantly younger and better than the player in his current position. So really, with the issues we have in the squad and the little need for investment in the LB position, why exactly would buying him make sense?

I see it as a waste of money when we're at a pretty important stage of the squads development with Giggs, Scholes and Rio either retired or shortly to retire. I'm not doubting he'd be decent for us, he'd do the job. But would he really be much of an improvement on Evra? Not convinced.
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Think that's too simple. Ashley Cole is effectively an institution. While he is still playing at least okay he will remain first choice. Has years of international plus tournament experience.
Defenders will only get dropped once they become a liability and not as easy as say, picking an upcoming striker over an established one.
Because if upcoming striker is scoring goals galore he can make a case much easier than a left back just playing well consistently.
 
No point in us getting ripped off here. We've seen time and time again English players move for prices way above their value. £12 million is a very fair offer and I would be disappointed if we went more than £15 million, just not worth it.
 
Goooose said:
Yes. It would not affect my life in any way. Were any of you made richer when we got the Ronaldo money?
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People enjoy discussing transfer fees when it comes to football talk mate, no need to make a big deal out of it.
 
Goooose said:
Why does anyone care how much he'd cost? It's not your money.
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Great attitude, shame the club isn't in your hands eh? We'd have a marvellous one season signing the best in the world, and then go bankrupt.
 
He's a good player & has been for quite a while. Evra's just turned 32, so I doubt he has much left in the tank.

There really aren't that many good left backs around, so it makes sense.
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
No need for this signing. Fabio and Buttner.
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That's the worst case you could possibly make against this signing. Neither of those players have shown enough to suggest that they have a future with United, never mind replace Evra. Fabio obviously has showed potential and has started a CL final, but the jury is still very much out IMO.
 
Shark22 said:
That's the worst case you could possibly make against this signing. Neither of those players have shown enough to suggest that they have a future with United, never mind replace Evra. Fabio obviously has showed potential and has started a CL final, but the jury is still very much out IMO.
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Yeah, I like Buttners attitude, but he's not looking like a first teamer. And Fabio still has much to prove.
 
Sell pat for big monies, lose his massif wages too. Bring in baines for same fee but less wage. Sweets
 
Claymore said:
Barcelona are out there signing Neymar, Bayern are stripping their rivals of their best players and what are we doing? Trying to get Baines from Everton and Barca's backup players. Be nice if we could go out and get a big player this summer. We are in that bracket after all, if not top of it!!!
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:lol::wenger:
 
I am beginning to wonder whether the club is looking to spend more on all areas of the pitch at the start of this season.

They want to give the new manager every opportunity to get off to a good start.
 
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