Leighton Baines

Baines for 17 mil would be very disappointing. Too much money. And I don't think Baines is United quality at any rate. It would be a lot of money for someone not as good as an out of form Evra.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
None of that really matters realistically to the transfer figure. Baines is never going to be sold to anyone for a figure close to 5-7m this summer. What's apt for him is the current market rate and 5-7m does not get you a player like Leighton Baines at the moment. The English factor drives the price up for numerous reasons.
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Who cares that it doesn't affect his price? We should all stop giving our opinions on how we rate him? Weird post.
 
devilish said:
England has got two big issues

a) its inability to make ball possession the center of their game.

b) CM (which is basically due to years of underestimating A)

That doesn't mean that they are shit in all areas of their game. For example, their defenders are second to no one and are probably more solid at the back than Spain/Italy.
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While all of that is true Baines is not one of the players I think is good despite being in a shit English team (which he's second choice for). I reckon competent is the word I'd use for him. Same as Ashley Young. Difference being, in youngs position we have one of the world's best wingers in nani as the other alternative. Our alternative to Baines would be evra who has become a defensive mistake making machine.
 
Commadus said:
We didnt need Young but splurged £16m when he only had 1 year left. Everton will screw us for every penny - it will be about £17m.

I just don't know what Fergie seems to be smoking these days when it comes to buying average English players at ridiculous prices.
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Tragically 33 mil would be (or nearly would be) what we'd need for Modric and then we'd sort out a much more pressing matter, albeit not having Baines and Young in the squad
 
Bryan_Munich said:
Short memories. Remember how light we were on the wings the previous season.
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Exactly. And it's not as if Ashley Young was completely awful for us last season. He had his bad games like any other player in our squad but he also put in some good performances and scored some vital goals.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
While all of that is true Baines is not one of the players I think is good despite being in a shit English team (which he's second choice for). I reckon competent is the word I'd use for him. Same as Ashley Young. Difference being, in youngs position we have one of the world's best wingers in nani as the other alternative. Our alternative to Baines would be evra who has become a defensive mistake making machine.
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Christ he's an attacking full-back who has always made errors. The same can be said for a lot of the worlds best attacking full-backs. He's never been truly adept at the defensive side of his game. I happen to believe that when United are dominating possession we see the best of him, it's when we can't keep the ball that he gets caught out of position trying to force the issue.

Patrice Evra should never be an alternative to Leighton Baines...ever. United don't need competent players they need exceptional players, and Evra has been and still is an exceptional player.
 
Crustanoid said:
Tragically 33 mil would be (or nearly would be) what we'd need for Modric and then we'd sort out a much more pressing matter, albeit not having Baines and Young in the squad
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Modric is 27 soon. By most peoples reckoning that is too old and the money should be spent on unproven 19 year olds
 
Comsmit said:
Christ he's an attacking full-back who has always made errors. The same can be said for a lot of the worlds best attacking full-backs. He's never been truly adept at the defensive side of his game. I happen to believe that when United are dominating possession we see the best of him, it's when we can't keep the ball that he gets caught out of position trying to force the issue.

Patrice Evra should never be an alternative to Leighton Baines...ever. United don't need competent players they need exceptional players, and Evra has been and still is an exceptional player.
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I don't agree that he still is an exceptional player. He hasn't really shown that for 2 years and I doubt we will see his very best again, however I do agree that he shouldn't be an alternative to Baines and if he gets anywhere near his best again then he'd comfortably have a place in the first team.
 
Ramshock said:
Who do people have a problem with Young? I think he exceeded expectations by a mile for us last season.
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Agree.

We cannot ask for better back up winger.

Anyways if we spent 17 mil on Baines, doesn't that leave us with very limited funds to sign a midfielder?
 
Are we overrating the fullback position a bit too much? I mean ok baines is not technically gifted as evra is but so was gaz. However id take the former (hardworking, solid at the back and armed with a good cross) to the latter. Spending more than 12m on baines would be stupid though
 
Comsmit said:
Christ he's an attacking full-back who has always made errors. The same can be said for a lot of the worlds best attacking full-backs. He's never been truly adept at the defensive side of his game. I happen to believe that when United are dominating possession we see the best of him, it's when we can't keep the ball that he gets caught out of position trying to force the issue.

Patrice Evra should never be an alternative to Leighton Baines...ever. United don't need competent players they need exceptional players, and Evra has been and still is an exceptional player.
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Evra is nowhere near an exceptional player. In fact, he isn't good enough to start for Manchester United or France right now. One of them has a capable replacement and hence he's been replaced. He was phenomenal at his best but he's not up to scratch right now. Phenomenal players don't play second fiddle to Gael Clichy.

And all defenders make errors. It's how many they make that is the difference. At his best he was a beast. He made very few mistakes. Now he makes a lot and very consistently.
 
If we do get Baines, of course I'll support him.

But I just don't see why we can't give Fabio more chances. If SAF wants him to get experience, then rest Evra in some games and give Fabio chances.

Of course SAF knows best, and if he thinks it's best for the lad to go on loan, then so be it. I'd just rather we keep him instead of spending money.
 
Bryan_Munich said:
Looks to me like Fergie doesn't believe that Fabio is at a sufficient level yet to push Evra for his place.
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SAF thought he was good enough to start the 2011 CL final.

I love Patrice, but Fabio couldn't do any worse than he's done in recent months.

We all know Evra hasn't been the same player for a while now. He's probably played more games for us than anybody the last few years, so maybe he does need a rest. Just give Fabio a chance.
 
I thought Fabio was one of our better players in the CL final and he deserves a chance challenging Evra for a starting place. Maybe the interest in Baines is because SAF will look to move on Evra over the next season and wants to ensure we have some experience at LB.

I would be very disappointed if Fabio is not at least given the chance to prove himself at LB, although a loan spell first would be a good option for him.
 
MUFCgal said:
SAF thought he was good enough to start the 2011 CL final.

I love Patrice, but Fabio couldn't do any worse than he's done in recent months.

We all know Evra hasn't been the same player for a while now. He's probably played more games for us than anybody the last few years, so maybe he does need a rest. Just give Fabio a chance.
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Maybe I should have said consistently at a sufficient level yet to push Evra for his place, hence Fergie's decision to send him out on loan.
 
I see the usual "if he had a foreign name you'd love him" shite is being trotted out, for starters his name sounds like a fecking American soap star so whatever.

I think Baines is a good player but unless Evra is leaving I cannot see why we need a £17M rotational option.
 
47 games last year for Evra, more then any other player on the squad, more then Smalling and Rafael put together. He needs a rest, Fabio is that playr, not Baines.
 
Bryan_Munich said:
Fabio clearly isn't that player (yet), hence why he is going out on loan.
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How is he ever going to be a player for us though if we stick another £17M obstacle in front of him, when there is already a top class obstacle there who can probably play another 3 seasons comfortably.
 
He didn't play in a total of 7 games last season. West Brom away in the league which was our first game. Leeds, Aldershot and Crystal Palace in the league cup, Oțelul Galați at home in the Champions league, Ajax home and away in the Europa cup. That's something else, 17million pounds for someone who would of played 7 times last season.
 
Devil may care said:
How is he ever going to be a player for us though if we stick another £17M obstacle in front of him, when there is already a top class obstacle there who can probably play another 3 seasons comfortably.
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Eyepopper said:
I dont think that will be the case..... I think Baines would fit the age profile of the team quite well... Evra's 31, Baines is 27 and has a wealth of experience, Fabio is 21 and has limited experience.

I think Baines would be a good signing (albeit 12m is a steep fee). He'd compliment and Evra and it gives Fabio time to develop. In 2 years we could be perfectly set up for Evra to bow out, with 2 capable, experienced LB's.
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That seems like a reasonable explanation to me, assuming there is anything in this Baines thing of course.

Either way it appears that Fergie has decided to send Fabio on loan regardless.
 
JakeC said:
He didn't play in a total of 7 games last season. West Brom away in the league which was our first game. Leeds, Aldershot and Crystal Palace in the league cup, Oțelul Galați at home in the Champions league, Ajax home and away in the Europa cup. That's something else, 17million pounds for someone who would of played 7 times last season.
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I've seen a lot of your posts in the thread Jake, and I think you are missing the point. The fact that he played that many games is a PROBLEM. Plus he has no real competition or replacement as SAF thinks Fabio isn't good enough yet. We need either competition or for him to play fewer games so he can be at his best.
 
Bryan_Munich said:
That seems like a reasonable explanation to me, assuming there is anything in this Baines thing of course.

Either way it appears that Fergie has decided to send Fabio on loan regardless.
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I disagree, one thing most managers say is that you don't chop and change your back 4 if you can help it, so I don't see it being ideal having two players of the highest caliber for one fullback spot. In the past we have always done well with having a copuple of versatile defenders in the squad who can fill in across the back 4 and then our genuine first choice back 4.
 
nm03 said:
I've seen a lot of your posts in the thread Jake, and I think you are missing the point. The fact that he played that many games is a PROBLEM. Plus he has no real competition or replacement as SAF thinks Fabio isn't good enough yet. We need either competition or for him to play fewer games so he can be at his best.
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Is there a point of bringing in a 'replacement' when he can play so many games, with one of the best young leftbacks in the world to deputise for him?

17 million pound for a player that would barely make the bench is shocking, when there's other areas we could strenghthen.
 
Bryan_Munich said:
Never underestimate the benefit of good competition for places.
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Spot on. Plus Fabio's hardly had a game at left back in the last 2 years. I'm not sure whether Fergie's decided he is a right back(where all his best performances and his run in the side were).

One of the things that we lacked last season from the sides who were tremendous in Europe was strength in depth in the back four. Selling JOS and Brown and leaving the back up as mainly youngsters left us short of experienced cover. Baines with Fabio loaned and everyone a year older would be more of a return to that type of depth.
 
Devil may care said:
How is he ever going to be a player for us though if we stick another £17M obstacle in front of him, when there is already a top class obstacle there who can probably play another 3 seasons comfortably.
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I reckon Fergie sees him as a right back more than a left back otherwise he would have more game time last season. Plenty of games for both Fabio and Rafael down that right side. Fabio's run in the side on the right was as good as anything Rafael has ever managed IMO(both very good prospects). I don't think Jones will be occupying the right back slot for that much longer. Either way Fabio's ability to play down both sides would mean he has plenty of opportunities and looks set to have a season on loan next year anyway.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
I reckon Fergie sees him as a right back more than a left back otherwise he would have more game time last season. Plenty of games for both Fabio and Rafael down that right side. Fabio's run in the side on the right was as good as anything Rafael has ever managed IMO(both very good prospects). I don't think Jones will be occupying the right back slot for that much longer. Either way Fabio's ability to play down both sides would mean he has plenty of opportunities and looks set to have a season on loan next year anyway.
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So in essence you think we are bringing in a 28 year old to be Evra's replacement in a season or so's time? I'd have thought if Fergie was looking for that he'd have went younger and cheaper.
 
Good competition for places, a 17 million pound player shouldn't have to compete.
 
JakeC said:
Is there a point of bringing in a 'replacement' when he can play so many games, with one of the best young leftbacks in the world to deputise for him?

17 million pound for a player that would barely make the bench is shocking, when there's other areas we could strenghthen.
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I'm sorry but calling Fabio one of the best young leftbacks in the world is just wrong. Simply because he has rarely played left back for us. How can you know?
 
Devil may care said:
So in essence you think we are bringing in a 28 year old to be Evra's replacement in a season or so's time? I'd have thought if Fergie was looking for that he'd have went younger and cheaper.
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I think he is after Baines, if rumours are true, because we lack any genuine competition for Evra and for whatever reason, Fergie does not fancy Fabio as a left back. Evra plays far too many games at left back so he we need an alternative and Fergie does not seem to think that is Fabio. The fact in 4 years at the club Fabio's only ever played Carling cup games and dead rubber CL games in that position reinforces that, whereas he has played CL finals, semi finals and title deciders at right back. The biggest game Fabio played at left back was in his debut season in the Fa CUp semi final. That's a very long time again.
 
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