I'm not sure on Baines but I'd definitely go the route of purchasing established players. 26-28 is a good age. We don't need to buy more youngsters that are going to muster up 20 appearances over the course of the season. We have plenty of those that are steadily growing and gaining experience.
Leighton Baines
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Tell that to Ashley Young, Owen Hargreaves and so on.
Thats been about the fee of most established players we bring in and plenty of them were not automatic starters
I personally think Fabio has struggled more at left back as he tends to tackle mostly with his right meaning it's not a natural defensive position for him. I guess if Baines is being bought as the player that will phase out Evra then that's ok, but we really could have done with going a bit younger and for less money with midfield still needing a chunk of investment.
Ashley Young played in 24 league games this season, Hargreaves was a crock.
These players were signed 'as' first team players, Baines isn't as good as Evra.
How? When Carrick was better than Hargreaves and Young is obviously not as good as Nani
hargreaves was signed solely for the champions league.
In the positions that we need a first team player I'd totally agree. But in a position that we are clearly buying as competition/rotation it seems nonsensical buying someone not even 4 years younger than our current starter.
From my point of view Fergie either needs to make the decision that Evra is now not up to the job and buy a top quality full back to replace him, or buy a young full back who can play 15-20 games for a couple of seasons, whilst phasing Evra out (personally I don't understand why Fabio isn't this player).
The only way that I can see Baines being a good option is if he costs around £7-8m and Fergie thinks Fabio needs around 4 more seasons to fully mature, so Baines would be a relatively solid stop-gap. Also bear in mind that Evra's decline started after the World Cup (when he was 29), if Baines goes through a similar decline he'd only be useful for 18 months.
based on last season only i think it's an open case
If we sign Baines it will be another bad investment. For the money quoted we should be looking elsewhere.
There are no left backs better than Baines?
There are no left backs better than Baines?
Signing baines will be like Young he won't add much to our squad - another over priced English player who is not at the level we need - we need to aim higher.
Christian Fulks of Schalke?
Christian Fulks of Schalke?
Evra is 31, his form is already on the decline and has been for the last 2 seasons.
Realistically he has another 2 years such are the demands of the full back position.
Baines is 27 so a year or so as a backup and competition for Evra and he could cement himself for a year or two and provide competition for....
Fabio da Silva who is 21 and hasn't had a real run in the first team yet despite signs of promise at various times, the end of the 10/11 season being the obvious one. In a two or three seasons he can be in serious contention as a starter and will be 23/24, the optimum age to be taking over from or providing competition to a 30/31 year old Baines.
It makes sense to me, we need competition and support for Evra now and he's of aN age level and experience we are short of in the squad. When Evra is on his last legs he will be taking over and Fabio will then provide competition and eventually take over.
As it is, we have an unreliable Fabio as backup to 31 year old Evra. If Evra got injured or moved in a year or two would Fabio definitately be ready and who would be his backup? If we got another youngster you'd risk the same unreliability and one of them would eventually fail and one prevail. This way it's natural progression. When Fabio is 24/25 and cemented his spot with Evra long gone and Baines on the way out we could then look at bringing a youngster in.
Make sense?
I don't think Baines's is a great option, and I think we do have some time with Evra to buy someone whose 25 or younger. Evra's decline has been massively exaggerated; he's still a top 5 LB in the world, and Baine's would be an expensive rotational player. Someone younger ought to be the priority.
Evra is 31, Baines 27, Fabio young and learnin'. It makes sense in terms of ages as one will replace the other over time, however it is a large fee but what the feck else can you expect with the English tax anyway?
Don't think anyone would mind Baines coming in as cover, we could definitely do with an option to rest Evra occasionally. But for the money he would cost, it would make him a major signing, far too expensive for simply a cover role.
Considering what Barca are getting with Jordi Alba for 14m euros, and we would realistically have to spend at least that, probably more, to get Baines.
Considering what Barca are getting with Jordi Alba for 14m euros, and we would realistically have to spend at least that, probably more, to get Baines.
You can't really compare it to the Alba situation though, sadly. Spanish players just do not sell for the amount of money English players do, especially when bought in their own country.
He will be solid and dependable in the league, but no more.
If we were to sign Baines then I could see a scenario where Evra might leave next summer; sort of like Berbatov he'd likely get overlooked in favour of Baines and maybe only play in cup games or when Baines is unavailable. Of course if that were to happen then we'd probably not get a lot for Evra in terms of transfer fee owing partly to his age, but also lack of playing time over the coming season, but by then the priority would likely be to get his wages off the books.
Hopefully I'm wrong, but this signing would feel like the start of such a process.
In terms of the Baines transfer fee, I hope we play hard-ball over this one. We are the only team in for him. Everton need the money. They would make a sizeable profit on him regardless given what they paid. They have had some bargains from us over the years that have done well for them (P. Nev, Howard, Saha, Gibson) and, with respect to them, we are not rivals in terms of league position. There's no reason I can see to cave-in and pay whatever number they throw at us. Even if it means he misses pre-season, he's English, local and Premier League experienced so he shouldn't really struggle that much to adapt.
We still seem to have the reputation of being loaded big spenders that can always have an extra few pennies squeezed out off by selling clubs, despite our finances and ownership. Agreeing to pay over say £12m in these circumstances won't help decrease that reputation.
What I'm saying I guess, is that it's all about value...
Hopefully I'm wrong, but this signing would feel like the start of such a process.
In terms of the Baines transfer fee, I hope we play hard-ball over this one. We are the only team in for him. Everton need the money. They would make a sizeable profit on him regardless given what they paid. They have had some bargains from us over the years that have done well for them (P. Nev, Howard, Saha, Gibson) and, with respect to them, we are not rivals in terms of league position. There's no reason I can see to cave-in and pay whatever number they throw at us. Even if it means he misses pre-season, he's English, local and Premier League experienced so he shouldn't really struggle that much to adapt.
We still seem to have the reputation of being loaded big spenders that can always have an extra few pennies squeezed out off by selling clubs, despite our finances and ownership. Agreeing to pay over say £12m in these circumstances won't help decrease that reputation.
What I'm saying I guess, is that it's all about value...
It's always good to know what opposition fans have in their minds when talking about United players... you sound like a true red
despite all the talks about Evra being superior on the attacking front his contribution is very intangible I can't remember when was the last time he scored or assisted. He makes a lot of "noise" on the left wing, links well
with the winger, cuts inside but there is very little tangible end product.
Baines' stats look better but the overall impression is that he is not as effective as Evra.
So who's more efficient? who's more effective? and what's the more desirable at United.
I'm actually very interested in Baines' role in this team. Is he going to be Evra's back-up, contender or first choice.
IMO he has the ability to be no 1 at United.
It's always good to know what opposition fans have in their minds when talking about United players... you sound like a true red
I thought he was a Utd supporter?
Maybe I am being overly simplistic here but I say, if money is tight, which clearly it is, we shouldnt be wasting what we have on Baines. Evra is class and Fabio is promising. We should be keeping Fabio close and letting him get time on the pitch to give Evra some rest. He is talented - was rated higher than Rafael who is making progress at right back. He can step up if we give him the chance.
Basically, Evra can hand over to Fabio directly. No bridge player is needed. Lets put the Baines money towards a midfielder.
Basically, Evra can hand over to Fabio directly. No bridge player is needed. Lets put the Baines money towards a midfielder.
The more I think about Baines in an United shirt and the more I die inside
I'd say Baines is probably at the same level in his position as Young was in his when we bought him, and we also paid too much for him too. Not sure why this signing would surprise and anger so many people really.
The surprise and anger points are very different tho to be fair. It wouldnt surprise me in the least. Anger is probably not the right word for it either, but it would certainly frustrate me.
Young's signing (at the time) surprised and angered me without the same level of intensity as now
And what about now?
We've a long history of signing PL players who may not necessarily look amazing for their current clubs but can make the step up here. Carrick, Smalling, Valencia, (hopefully) Young. I don't see why Baines can't do similar.
Simple fact is we need a left back, not as much as a midfielder maybe, but there aren't many around and Baines seems a pretty safe, albeit overpriced, choice.
He is injured a lot but I thought there had been times last season where he was perfectly fit, yet still couldnt dislodge Evra from the first team?
If we can proceed every summer on the basis that Anderson is going to be available, and Fletcher is going to be coming back, I dont see why we cant regard Fabio with the same level of optimism. Maybe we do need another body in there, in case Fabio is out semi permanently. But I still wouldnt blow the budget on Baines.
If we can proceed every summer on the basis that Anderson is going to be available, and Fletcher is going to be coming back, I dont see why we cant regard Fabio with the same level of optimism. Maybe we do need another body in there, in case Fabio is out semi permanently. But I still wouldnt blow the budget on Baines.
There is say in french "only idiots do not change opinions" (seuls les idiots ne changent pas d'avis).Young has done well, specially in the last third of the season.Of all the players you mentioned, Baines is the one who underwhelms me the most (in comparison to when the others were bought)
We really shouldn't be doing that though.
Fair enough. I wouldn't see a problem with the signing myself, apart from the cost, but that's a given with English players nowadays. I can't really think of many other established left backs we could realistically get either.
No, we shouldnt.
It doesnt feel like we have got to that point with Fabio yet tho. To me, at least. As I said, I thought he had been available for a lot more of last season that his appearances tally would suggest? I am not sure about that tho. It seemed to me that SAF just doesnt want to drop Evra, that he likes him in the team, even when he could probably do with a rest and there is a backup available.
Nah we haven't. I think he needs to go on loan, it's probably something we should've done with Anderson too in hindsight, send him to a less demanding league physically, but due to our lack of midfield options it wasn't really viable. Assuming we do sign Baines or something then Fabio's loan could be a very good thing for him.
Cina, I dont think my opinion is probably that far from yours in some ways, the difference between us is the weighting we attach to the cost side of things. You repeatedly acknowledge Baines is overpriced. Yet think we should get him anyway. Fair enough, except I instinctively feel (with nothing tangible to back it up I admit) that the amount of money we have to spend is finite, so I am all about prioritising.
If I thought we could spend the money on Baines as well as Kagawa and still have money left over for another midfielder Id be all for it - why the hell not, no harm in strengthening the squad. But until we have another midfielder I dont want to see another penny spent, because I believe its a zero sum game: every penny spent here is a penny that wont be spent elsewhere.
If I thought we could spend the money on Baines as well as Kagawa and still have money left over for another midfielder Id be all for it - why the hell not, no harm in strengthening the squad. But until we have another midfielder I dont want to see another penny spent, because I believe its a zero sum game: every penny spent here is a penny that wont be spent elsewhere.
Totally agree!
It's always good to know what opposition fans have in their minds when talking about United players... you sound like a true red
despite all the talks about Evra being superior on the attacking front his contribution is very intangible I can't remember when was the last time he scored or assisted. He makes a lot of "noise" on the left wing, links well
with the winger, cuts inside but there is very little tangible end product.
Baines' stats look better but the overall impression is that he is not as effective as Evra.
So who's more efficient? who's more effective? and what's the more desirable at United.
I'm actually very interested in Baines' role in this team. Is he going to be Evra's back-up, contender or first choice.
IMO he has the ability to be no 1 at United.
Evra offers a lot of energy going forward even though the end product isn't often there , his play often brings others into the attack so indirectly he is offering quite a lot to the attack .His defensive duties in the not so critical areas like midfield or on the flanks is very good. However his positional awareness in the box can be and often is very poor.
Personally Baines is not for me just don't think he is good enough as a replacement, as back up yes. But I think there is better out there
Well not necessarily, but maybe I didn't make that clear. I'm in the same boat with you that if it did stop us signing a central midfielder, which we need more, then we shouldn't sign him. But if it didn't effect our funds for a midfielder I wouldn't see why not.
I'm with you on this, Young & Baines are decent Premiership players, a cut above dare I say, but they are not the sort we are going to win the Champions League with, they are a level below what we need.
To think you have to spend £15M-£20M on an English 'back-up', we're better off looking abroad when you think of these sort of prices.
I'd also prefer to bring Fabio through, but seeing as he is out on loan for this season, presumably he will be properly Evra's understudy the seaosn after so we only need 1 more 'full' season out of Evra.
I don't think we're in dire need of him, but this signing would definitely benefit us. Evra wouldn't have to play every game all season again...