Leighton Baines

Pexbo said:
Evra is 31, his form is already on the decline and has been for the last 2 seasons.

Realistically he has another 2 years such are the demands of the full back position.

Baines is 27 so a year or so as a backup and competition for Evra and he could cement himself for a year or two and provide competition for....


Fabio da Silva who is 21 and hasn't had a real run in the first team yet despite signs of promise at various times, the end of the 10/11 season being the obvious one. In a two or three seasons he can be in serious contention as a starter and will be 23/24, the optimum age to be taking over from or providing competition to a 30/31 year old Baines.

It makes sense to me, we need competition and support for Evra now and he's of aN age level and experience we are short of in the squad. When Evra is on his last legs he will be taking over and Fabio will then provide competition and eventually take over.

As it is, we have an unreliable Fabio as backup to 31 year old Evra. If Evra got injured or moved in a year or two would Fabio definitately be ready and who would be his backup? If we got another youngster you'd risk the same unreliability and one of them would eventually fail and one prevail. This way it's natural progression. When Fabio is 24/25 and cemented his spot with Evra long gone and Baines on the way out we could then look at bringing a youngster in.

Make sense?
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Baines only seems like an option because he is a) English and b) SAF has overlooked Evra decline for far too long c) Fabio is injury prone d) the misplaced hope Fabio will develop into a world class defender.

If we are spending £15-£17m we should buy the best Left Back we can irrespective of Fabio perceived potential - and that is not Baines.

He will end up being another Ashley Young - over priced, over paid and average.
 
kouroux said:
Young's signing (at the time) surprised and angered me without the same level of intensity as now
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I'm behind you 100%.

At the highest level in the Champions League they will be found wanting. I would say Zabaletta is a better player than Baines.
 
Think this is more likely going to happen now. Fabio out on loan, Fryers most likely gone. We have even less cover for Evra now.
 
Devil may care said:
I personally think Fabio has struggled more at left back as he tends to tackle mostly with his right meaning it's not a natural defensive position for him. I guess if Baines is being bought as the player that will phase out Evra then that's ok, but we really could have done with going a bit younger and for less money with midfield still needing a chunk of investment.
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It's almost the same as Oshea playing right back. Defending like a lefty at right back, Fabio defends like a righty at left back.

I'd welcome a Baines signing.. Not to exy of course (know its going to be).
 
Unless we intend to play Evans there and Smalling and Jones mainly in the middle
 
It would be nice to finally have another left footed left back if this goes through. When's the last time we had one of those, apart from Evra?
 
Yeah but they were both center backs as well as left backs for me. Not specialist enough.
 
Escobar said:
Unless we intend to play Evans there and Smalling and Jones mainly in the middle
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Evans isn't great at LB. He can fill in there for a few game or so, and started his NI career there, but if for example Evra picked up any kind of long(ish) term injury we'd be in trouble.

I think the fact that Fabio was sent out on loan and Fryers is soon gone (apparently) tells me 100% that a LB is about to arrive, and I'd guess Fergie sees that as a bigger priority than a CM at the moment.

As to who it might be? For the right price I would go with Baines. He fits the profile, good experienced PL player, who can give Evra a rest when needed. Hopefully his internal matches makes up for his lack of European football.
 
Commadus said:
I'm behind you 100%.

At the highest level in the Champions League they will be found wanting. I would say Zabaletta is a better player than Baines.
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Exactly. This is the issue for me. They are decent players who often impress in the Premier League. Put them into a high pressure top end Champions League match and they are out of their depth. They can't influence those games as they do in England, the standard is so much higher. Hell Young struggled to impose himself on Basel and Benfica never mind the elite teams.

And I also agree with the Zabaletta comparison. Very accomplished player is Pablo, got real drive and feircely competitive. Important player for City.
 
Comsmit said:
Exactly. This is the issue for me. They are decent players who often impress in the Premier League. Put them into a high pressure top end Champions League match and they are out of their depth. They can't influence those games as they do in England, the standard is so much higher. Hell Young struggled to impose himself on Basel and Benfica never mind the elite teams.

And I also agree with the Zabaletta comparison. Very accomplished player is Pablo, got real drive and feircely competitive. Important player for City.
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Yep.

Buying Baines sends the signal the league is the prioroty and the CL is just a nice cup compeition that we would like to do well in.

Baines like Young is ok in the premier league but they dont have the quality to go up against the best in the Champions League.

United always signed up and coming talent and still do - Jones, De Gea etc and every so often bought real world class talent - Baines like Young is neither young or world class - its a nothing signing.
 
This PL/CL dichotomy you're peddling is nonsense. The top teams in the PL are comfortably a match (if not better) than 90% of the teams we could come up against in Europe. If any player is good enough to play for us in crunch PL games then he's good enough to play in the CL too. If not, he's not. Madness to suggest we're signing players with only one of the two competitions in mind.
 
Commadus said:
Yep.

Buying Baines sends the signal the league is the prioroty and the CL is just a nice cup compeition that we would like to do well in.

Baines like Young is ok in the premier league but they dont have the quality to go up against the best in the Champions League.

United always signed up and coming talent and still do - Jones, De Gea etc and every so often bought real world class talent - Baines like Young is neither young or world class - its a nothing signing.
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That is a worrying thought. I actually believe that United need a lot more ambition in the transfer market simply to win the league back. City are only going to improve, Chelsea are rejuvenated from last seasons sucesses. This club needs more great players, or players who will develop into great players. Baines as you say..is neither of these and never will be. A completely irrelevant buy like Young.
 
Right, so a good PL proven left back in a position we really need to strengthen because our main LB is 31 and our next in line is off on loan is an irrelevant purchase?
 
Honigstein(German footy expert) just said that he reckons Bayern sacked their DOF(Nerlinger) on his failure to get Rues and Baines in.

I actually don't want Baines in here, but stop under-rating him. Poor Ashley Young's reputation has actually taken a pounding.
 
We have an abundance of players who may or may not develop into great players.

What the club needs is a LB capable of putting immediate pressure on Evra for his place.
 
KM said:
Honigstein(German footy expert) just said that he reckons Bayern sacked their DOF(Nerlinger) on his failure to get Rues and Baines in.

I actually don't want Baines in here, but stop under-rating him. Poor Ashley Young's reputation has actually taken a pounding.
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Baines had been linked with Bayern for a few years. I agree with the bit in bold. Young hasn't been as bad a signing as some have made it out to be and some seemingly want us to sign a left back in their early 20's. We've already got a player who can do that. Baines isn't 28 as some have repeatedly said. He's 27 which is young enough but not too young that it completely blocks Fabio's route to the first team.

And every time Baines' potential transfer price is brought up, it seems to increase mainly by people trying to prove a point that it'll be a bad buy.
 
You'd be nearly as well off getting Phil Neville back as getting Baines.
 
Bryan_Munich said:
We have an abundance of players who may or may not develop into great players.

What the club needs is a LB capable of putting immediate pressure on Evra for his place.
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Indeed. Buying potential stars is all well and good but there comes a time when you need to buy proven players that that address current problems, and left back is a bit of a problem right now. What use would signing another talented youngster be?

peterstorey said:
You'd be nearly as well off getting Phil Neville back as getting Baines.
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He'd make your defense better.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This PL/CL dichotomy you're peddling is nonsense. The top teams in the PL are comfortably a match (if not better) than 90% of the teams we could come up against in Europe. If any player is good enough to play for us in crunch PL games then he's good enough to play in the CL too. If not, he's not. Madness to suggest we're signing players with only one of the two competitions in mind.
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I agree that buying players simply for the Premier League is a touch outlandish. I'm not sure that was exactly what he was trying to say. Of course they are good enough "to play" in Champions League. It's more that they are players who won't win us a Champions League.

My worry is the highlighted section. That top 10% you need to beat to win the Champions League, and I for one would not be confident in players like Baines and Young providing the necessary impetus to achieve this. Let's be honest Young struggled to impose himself against Basel, Benfica and Bilbao last season. These teams are not the top 10% but they can all play good football.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
This PL/CL dichotomy you're peddling is nonsense. The top teams in the PL are comfortably a match (if not better) than 90% of the teams we could come up against in Europe. If any player is good enough to play for us in crunch PL games then he's good enough to play in the CL too. If not, he's not. Madness to suggest we're signing players with only one of the two competitions in mind.
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To be perfectly honest the type of player he is referring to wouldn't be in a fully fit team in the crunch Premier League matches, so I agree with him in that respect. The likes of Young, Berbatov, Park and even arguably Giggs nowadays are fine as good squad players who will get you crucial points against most Premier League opposition, but I certainly wouldn't trust them to consistently perform against the Premier league/European elite.

Baines would fall into that category in my opinion. United's problem since Ronaldo/Tevez left is definitely not the strength of our squad as a whole (arguably the strongest in the league with City), it is the strength of our first XI, which is quite a step down from City's. Buying more "squad" players, who never have the potential to be anything but will only exacerbate this issue.

Cina said:
Indeed. Buying potential stars is all well and good but there comes a time when you need to buy proven players that that address current problems, and left back is a bit of a problem right now. What use would signing another talented youngster be?
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Baines is not really that proven though is he? He's never really played competitively in Europe and has never been part of a team challenging for trophies. In terms of Premier League experience fair enough, but in terms of crunch, must win games Fabio has just as much experience.
 
Commadus said:
Yep.

Buying Baines sends the signal the league is the prioroty and the CL is just a nice cup compeition that we would like to do well in.

Baines like Young is ok in the premier league but they dont have the quality to go up against the best in the Champions League.

United always signed up and coming talent and still do - Jones, De Gea etc and every so often bought real world class talent - Baines like Young is neither young or world class - its a nothing signing.
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Indeed, we've never done this before. We've never signed good but not great/top players from midtable PL clubs, or signed experienced PL pros as a short-term fix to give us a bit more time to find the right replacement for one of our most influential players. And it's definitely never helped us be successful in the Champions League.

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finneh said:
Baines is not really that proven though is he? He's never really played competitively in Europe and has never been part of a team challenging for trophies. In terms of Premier League experience fair enough, but in terms of crunch, must win games Fabio has just as much experience.
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He's PL proven. That's usually enough for SAF. Carrick, Valencia, Young etc
 
Brwned said:
Indeed, we've never done this before. We've never signed good but not great/top players from midtable PL clubs, or signed experienced PL pros as a short-term fix to give us a bit more time to find the right replacement for one of our most influential players. And it's definitely never helped us be successful in the Champions League.
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Slightly disingenuous... Yorke was Villa's best player over the last 20 years. It was obvious to anyone who watched him that he could make the step up to become a top player. We paid the money that was illustrative of his talents - £12.6m in 1998 was huge money.

Likewise with Sheringham in terms of his talent, the only gamble was his age.

Cina said:
He's PL proven. That's usually enough for SAF. Carrick, Valencia, Young etc
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Carrick and Valencia were bought when they were 23~, a different situation entirely in my opinion. Both had shown flashes of what they were capable of and given their age and talent it was obvious that both could significantly improve.

I'd say Baines/Young are different in that it is obvious they have/had already reached their peak.
 
Whilst i struggle to see how we'd keep Evra & Baines happy some of the stuff posted on here seems a little far fetched regarding Baines ability.

He is a very, very good left back and chosen by his peers as being the best in the league last season.
 
jgraham said:
Whilst i struggle to see how we'd keep Evra & Baines happy some of the stuff posted on here seems a little far fetched regarding Baines ability.

He is a very, very good left back and chosen by his peers as being the best in the league last season.
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It's mental, isn't it? If he was Spanish they'd be creaming all over him.
 
He could be very useful, especially for a Premiership games, while giving some rest to Evra before tough Champions League clashes... plus he's an Englishman, which is always nice to see in a club of such roots and legend.
 
Cina said:
Right, so a good PL proven left back in a position we really need to strengthen because our main LB is 31 and our next in line is off on loan is an irrelevant purchase?
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Mmm. Maybe not irrelevant then.

Extraneous ?
 
I for one am pro-Baines.

Can take a set piece of two, too.
 
Nooooooooo. I don't want Baines, at all. He looks like a sewer rat.
 
Hectic said:
Nooooooooo. I don't want Baines, at all. He looks like a sewer rat.
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Exactly! I've come to a theory, that players who look like rats make the best fullbacks for United. Gary Neville is a prime example.
 
O'Shea was no rat. O'Shea was like a medieval knight who had entered a time vortex and ended up in the 21st century. Imagine O'Shea in some old-school knight armour, carrying a shield, trying to defend the honour of some princess.
 
Cina said:
Carrick was a month off turning 25, not sure where you're getting that from.
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Fair enough... But I think most people would agree he was by no means the finished article, as if often the case with central midfielders in their early-mid twenties.

ciderman9000000 said:
It's mental, isn't it? If he was Spanish they'd be creaming all over him.
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Not sure that's true... I don't see any threads or anyone creaming themselves about any of the mid table La Liga clubs' left fullbacks. I certainly wouldn't be if we were linked with, say Osasuna's LB (whoever that is).

Likewise I don't think Real Madrid's fans would be creaming themselves if they were linked with Baines... In fact I bet they'd have to Wikipedia his name.
 
finneh said:
Fair enough... But I think most people would agree he was by no means the finished article, as if often the case with central midfielders in their early-mid twenties.



Not sure that's true... I don't see any threads or anyone creaming themselves about any of the mid table La Liga clubs' left fullbacks. I certainly wouldn't be if we were linked with, say Osasuna's LB (whoever that is).

Likewise I don't think Real Madrid's fans would be creaming themselves if they were linked with Baines... In fact I bet they'd have to Wikipedia his name.
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Mostly because they don't need him when they have two quality leftbacks in Coentrao and Marcelo.
 
I want him. Great freekick, can play as a left footed winger if we had injuries, solid player. A good, available left footed fullback is very hard to find and I reckon he will fit in nicely.
 
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