The guy got pissed off at people so he carried on shouting about it to everyone who would listen, which was the majority of the press, and he's now received over a million quid to fund a political party so he can carry on shouting about the thing that he got pissed off about. And some people are arguing that he isn't in a privileged position? fecking hell.
Laurence Fox feat. Elvis
- Thread starter Jippy
- Start date
Come on, it’s a tough gig becoming an actor when you are part of one of the country’s most famous acting dynasties. No advantages or privileges at all. Laurence has done it the hard way.
VIDEO: Fox on his new political party
That’s what doesn’t sit right with me. We seem to have found ourselves in a situation where we’re trying to fight racism by pointing out people race and gender, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
I don’t have the answer but this approach is just leading to more bitterness and division between groups.
What's the alternative? Should we ask white men to solve racism the same way they used to draw random lines on maps and call them new borders?
I think she’s right in terms of the first part of the tweet, but surely that’s the journey we are on towards social equality.
Nice equivalence there. I don't think you can solve racism without having people of all colours on board about what is racism and what is not racism in the first place. And then actually agreeing on incredibly rational realistic solutions. But I don't think you can actually "end racism forever", that's kind of utopian like saying we have to end "hatred" or "aversion" forever. You can implement racial discrimination laws etc and call out obvious racism when you see it, but I think that as realistic as its gets unless we just order the military to kill all racist bigots in every corner of the world.
Such a truly brave brave brave white privileged man.
Quite naturally he is.
People who have experienced racism and sexism all their lives should be listened to when they have things to say about it. People who haven't experienced either should shut up and listen to what those who have have to say. When Laurence Fox was told he's a white, privileged man on QT, it was because he was saying the UK isn't a racist country, it's a lovely tolerant country. Yes, for him it is, as a white, wealthy man. For many people it isn't, but he has zero interest in listening to those people and what their experiences are
Thats not what it means. He can have his opinion but has to realise that where he speaks from his opinion cannot hold the same weight as people who have experienced real racism and oppression.
He can have an idea what it is like but unless he really experiences it he will never know and being told he may not get a tv part or being yelled at in Kenya is not real oppression or racism which he has claimed
I can see a situation where we end up going backwards and white middle class types start challenging their right to refer to black people when describing events.
The discussion was a bit muddied because the main point was a disagreement over whether the press were being racist to Meghan. In my opinion they weren’t and fox made a good point about calling out racism when it’s actually there not just labelling everything racist for the sake of it.
Nope, anybody is entitled to an opinion. People will listen but not when they’re basically told to shut up...it’s just a poor tactic to stop someone getting their view across.
Andrew Neil being brought up as a credible journalist example in a conversation about BBC impartiality. Wow! I've heard it all.
Your post and the bolded words in particular made me think about something. How people living under the poverty threshold would react if a bunch of wealthy people tried to explain to them what being poor actually meant?
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Fox wasn't acting like his opinion was an opinion, though. He was trying to state it as fact. And, also, responding to someone else's belief that Meghan has experienced racially charged press coverage as " just labelling everything as racism for the sake of it" is identical to telling someone to shut up.
There are some things in life that I, as a white middle class straight male should do the opposite of what I usually do, when it comes to discussions about. And it's shut up and listen. Not just nod my head whilst secretly just waiting for an opportunity to open my mouth and talk. But actually just shut up and listen. It's really not hard.
Fox was told that his experiences of racism come from a foundation of white privilege. What was Fox's response? Did he take a step back, try and think about someone other than himself for a second, and try and see it from another person's perspective? Did he try and broaden his understanding of racism? No. He yapped on and on about how he was the real victim and is now involved with a political party that ignores listening to anyone outside of his current echo chamber.
Not only did he yap on, he accused the woman who referred to his white privilege as being racist!
Not full on but the tears flowed.
Well I cried like a lil bitch when that woman was telling the bed time story to her two wee kids. And also when the desk chairs got damp.
Disagree with the first bit, you don't have to caveat a statement with 'by the way this is an opinion' before stating something. At what point did he tell anybody to shut up? He's just frustrated with the current narrative which reverts to 'it's racist' rather than testing logically for other things first. Racism should be a high bar. Rule other things out first because it's just lazy and illogical to cry racism at the first opportunity.
Lots of white people seem to be trying to out woke each other with the shut up and listen lines. How about a conversation? Might be a lot more productive?
His political party is a waste of money, time and effort. Doesn't mean I don't agree with some aspects of what he has said.
He clearly stated it has a fact, he said "it is not racism, no it's not", he then says that the UK is the most tolerent and lovely country in Europe which I guess is supposed to support the idea that nothing can be racist in the UK. I personally don't know if she has been victim of racism or not but that Laurence lad, didn't provide the beginning of a logical argument, he essentially cried about something being called racist without addressing the subject.
A better question from Fox would simply have been to calmly respond with 'Why is it racist'. Puts all the pressure on the audience member then. I didn't even realise Meghan was a black women?!
If he actually cared about the topic but he was only bothered by the idea that someone in the UK may be labelled as racist because that's seemingly more important than understand why someone would feel rightly or wrongly that racism was part of the media coverage. Which comes back to what @Mr Pigeon wrote earlier, he was focused on shutting any sort of conversation that would go in the direction of potential racism.
And ironically he inappropriately used the term racism in his favor which negates any point that you made about his frustration.
I like that a lot
Ahh yes, a "conversation" where he doesn't listen to the other person. That is the productive option.
At least it's good that Laurence Fox has a major opponent in another white privileged male in Prince Harry who's mastered the core thesis of White Fragility.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49169986
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49169986
What do you think Harry got wrong in that article?
I didn't say he necessarily got it wrong, but I wonder how many people who actually do and say things that are actually racist are unaware that what they say and do is racist.
He's frustrated?! I keep hearing the argument about using "Logic" as if it only applies to the person who usually wants to maintain the status quo because they've been able to think about it from a less emotional perspective. I've got a friend who always goes on about how he uses "logical thinking" as if the person he's debating with doesn't. Not only does it come across as condescending but it also means that the person has a high opinion of themselves. That in itself is frustrating because already you're debating with someone who thinks your stance is less enlightened than their own.
Conversation would be good. Why don't we start by listening to people who have had their stories silenced for generations first? Instead of playing the victim all the time because someone has the audacity to try and tell us their perspective. Instead of hearing the same perspective that has been told for countless years in our media and stories. Maybe less of the condescending attitudes about "logical thinking" as well would be a good start. Or is that too "woke"?
Why didn't we have this conversation before things in society hit fever pitch? Someone finally gets a chance to have their voice heard and suddenly people start clambering around saying "this is unfair because it doesn't involve me."
And with respect, but something that might be racist shouldn't need to reach some arbitrary high bar before we discuss it. If you set the bar too high then you're just waiting for things to ramp up and by that point it's already nigh impossible to change. Nip it in the bud before it becomes a big deal. And who determines what is high bar and what isn't? Two people can look at the coverage Meghan gets, one finds it racist and one doesn't. Who's right?
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Surely it’s got to be the vast majority? I can’t really think of many people I’ve met who view themselves as racist, or even capable of viewing something they said as being racist.
Most people I have met that are racists are just assholes who know what they say and do is racist and don't care. I don't stay very long in company of racists or keep friendships for long with real racists, so I don't have a great deal of people in my life to lean on for experience.
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If they were unaware they were racist they would be unable to describe themselves as so by definition.
It could be that I’m giving too much credit to some people thinking they’re genuinely oblivious to how to what they’re saying is racist, as opposed to them being more insidious and knowing full well that what they’ve said is racist. Sadly I’ve interacted with many people who are racist, and in a very blatant manner, mainly due to work.
Aye that’s generally the experience I found.
The point is your hero Fox will happily talk over a person of colour who is explaining the prejudice they've faced, insisting the UK is the most tolerant country in Europe.That wasn’t the point.
He has zero perception that not everyone shares his life experience. With the Meghan press coverage issue he's basically making himself, a privileged white male, arbiter of what black people can and can't find racist.
You know this though. @Mr Pigeon @Fluctuation0161 and @JPRouve have already explained this to you. You seem to revel in insisting on playing devil's advocate to get a reaction.
Good post.