The big difference obviously they are so much focusing on the league and Arteta isn't taking seriously the league cup and FA Cup, which is why they were out early from those two competitions.
Lack of rotation: Will this hurt us deeper in the season?
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Yes. Because Arteta recognized that he doesn't have a big enough squad to go hard on every competitions. It's called Risk Management, and the concept has been around for decades.
It's more lack of quality/trustworthy options to rotate is actually what's going on.
On one hand I'm concerned that ETH looks like he does not want to sacrifice any competition for the other. Although my priority would be, PL top 4, Europa, FA, Carling One Cup, in that order, but we're so close in the Carling cup that we have to pay attention to it now. Wouldn't want to go out to Reading in the FA, and how can we not play the strongest 11 against Barca.
One the other hand, a part of me absolutely loves this attitude that we're playing every competition and every game with the intention of winning it. exactly the mentality I want a ManUtd manager to have.
Spurs are the closest to us the league, and I don't think they have it in them to climb over us into the top 4, we should be fine there.
On one hand I'm concerned that ETH looks like he does not want to sacrifice any competition for the other. Although my priority would be, PL top 4, Europa, FA, Carling One Cup, in that order, but we're so close in the Carling cup that we have to pay attention to it now. Wouldn't want to go out to Reading in the FA, and how can we not play the strongest 11 against Barca.
One the other hand, a part of me absolutely loves this attitude that we're playing every competition and every game with the intention of winning it. exactly the mentality I want a ManUtd manager to have.
Spurs are the closest to us the league, and I don't think they have it in them to climb over us into the top 4, we should be fine there.
Ask Antony to spin for 15 minutes non stop
Yeah I would take Rabiot despite last summer
I don't blame ETH. He wants to win and this squad lacks strength in depth. The team he inherited is basically shite. However I do wonder if it is wise at this point to keep going on all fronts. The risk is that we'll end up faltering on everything is real.
Fred is doing well, but we do need another reliable body who can pass and move. Really it's too bad we couldn't shift McTominay and got a quality DM who can play a little in, because I could see hoping one of the attackers, presumably Sancho, could do alright as a #10 this year, and if Fred or Eriksen got hurt, play that DM and Casemiro together if you have too and just compensate by letting the fullbacks and Casemiro make a more few attacking runs. Someone like Koopmeiners, Locatelli or Paredes who have played as a 6 and as an 8.
Papers say we like Veerman, who when I've seen him looks a decent #8. Wonder if they'd take one of Pellistri or Elanga for 18 months and a couple of million loan fee for 4 months of Veerman of loan. Probably not as they're in a title race, but it's not completely insane as they get a cheap winger (and they've lost Gapko and Madueke). Shame they didn't get Bakayoko for 4 months in the Madueke deal from Chelsea, that might have been enough CM depth to make this work.
Papers say we like Veerman, who when I've seen him looks a decent #8. Wonder if they'd take one of Pellistri or Elanga for 18 months and a couple of million loan fee for 4 months of Veerman of loan. Probably not as they're in a title race, but it's not completely insane as they get a cheap winger (and they've lost Gapko and Madueke). Shame they didn't get Bakayoko for 4 months in the Madueke deal from Chelsea, that might have been enough CM depth to make this work.
If we have the money then I would stir away from the player. The guy is toxic and he had only produced 6 months of good football throughout his entire Juventus career. The last thing we need is someone on silly salary who doesn't give a shit.
My guess is he thinks Spurs or Newcastle will drop off. Kane has started all 21 games and Trippier 20/21 and you'd figure one of them will miss a few games and maybe that's enough for 2 extra games of dropped points from those teams considering how significant those players tend to be for them.
4th, win the League cup and make a run in either the FA Cup or Europa League. We can always throw one of those away if we have to.
I still think we might see Lisandro at DM when Casemiro needs a rest, as right now I'd say Lindelof at CB, Shaw at LCB and Malacia at LB and Maguire at CB all look better options than McTominay.
We're resting Varane enough and the other CBs are doing well, so the big issues is Casemiro and Eriksen.
The issue is McTominay. Sell him for 25M, buy a quality midfielder who can play 6 and 8 and we're in good shape.
But we are not in position in challenging the league like Arsenal this season. Our only hope to win trophies are league cup and FA Cup, hence why Arteta is focusing more on the league than the league cup and FA Cup.
We have to sacrifice the EL. Our 2nd leg match vs Barcelona few days before the final EFL Cup.
No idea why we aren’t trying to get McKennie on loan as he seems available.
We start playing to sacfifice competitions like some have suggested is a no for me. For example we play weak teams against Barca and we lose. We draw City in FA cup at emptyhad and we lose that and Newcastle do us in the LC final with full strength teams. Everyone will be saying we should have played a full strength team against Barca. As the team stands TH is doing exactly right. Play a virtual full strength team, score a couple of goals and sub. You can see the drop off in quality straight away. Priority 2 signings in the summer would be another younger quality midfielder (De Jong?) and someone upfront (Osimhen/Sesko?). Eriksen and Fred/Mainoo could then be the cover and Martial (until his contract is up) the striker cover.
A lot will rest on Wednesday. The second string don’t need to play two games in a week. The first choice players seem worse after a long rest anyway.
In any case, there’s a good chance our Thursday / Sunday routine won’t go beyond February.
In any case, there’s a good chance our Thursday / Sunday routine won’t go beyond February.
I went out drinking yesterday with a couple of United mates. They are mostly in their 60s and all are Maltese. Can you imagine 5-6 Devilishes arguing with one another? :Spoiler alert: its not nice
As said they are pretty old school which means that they give value to the FA cup far more then I do. When I told them that we should have played the reserves they were far from happy. Then I brought an argument on the table and they went all silent. I asked them what would have happened to our campaign if one of those Championship thugs just tackled Rashford or Casemiro, out of existence. Reading is after all a Paul Ince side (we all know his game) and in Carroll they have that player with the right motivation and the right anger to go for it. FFS they could have gone for both really and even aim Eriksen while at it.
I am very uncomfortable criticising ETH as I haven't seen a United manager with his vision, quality and hunger since prime Sir Alex. However I do believe that something need to be sacrificed. I believe that the FA cup was the easiest to drop but at this point even the EL could be a viable (though extremely painful) option as well. We simply lack the squad to go for everything
And Arsenal could realistically win nothing by doing that also.
United now find themselves with one foot in a cup final, a good chance of another domestic final and comfortably in the top four.
Arteta brought on his big guns in the second half for the FA cup game, suggesting that he didn't want to lose the game, else why do that and 'risk injury'?
CM and CF are a must.
Also need a GK upgrade, and a CB if Maguire leaves. Possibly a new RB too, if AWB is deemed not good enough.
I've posted a long ass table with minutes between us and Arsenal. But it seems like not one even use or analyze it.
We have players like Bruno and Case who've played 800-1200 minutes more than their rivals (as both played in WC also) at this stage already. The more we're in competitions, what do you think will happen?
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For me the biggest risk to our season is our ridiculously bloated fixture list
From the WC restart to end of Feb we play 19 matches - in same period Arsenal play 12
ETH doing a wonderful job but could have rotated more. I personally would have sent out the reserves even Vs Everton in the FA Cup and certainly for Reading.
We are going to Wembley for the League Cup already so I'd happily sacrifice the FA Cup at this point
We are not yet secure in Top 4 either - still a long way to go this season
From the WC restart to end of Feb we play 19 matches - in same period Arsenal play 12
ETH doing a wonderful job but could have rotated more. I personally would have sent out the reserves even Vs Everton in the FA Cup and certainly for Reading.
We are going to Wembley for the League Cup already so I'd happily sacrifice the FA Cup at this point
We are not yet secure in Top 4 either - still a long way to go this season
For me the biggest risk to our season is our ridiculously bloated fixture list
From the WC restart to end of Feb we play 19 matches - in same period Arsenal play 12
ETH doing a wonderful job but could have rotated more. I personally would have sent out the reserves even Vs Everton in the FA Cup and certainly for Reading.
We are going to Wembley for the League Cup already so I'd happily sacrifice the FA Cup at this point
We are not yet secure in Top 4 either - still a long way to go this season
I understand what you’re saying but we would have lost that game v Everton had we done that as you say.
EtH has rotated subtly with various key players. He wants to build momentum and too much chopping and changing can really hamper it, especially when still developing a playing style.
The biggest issue we have is Casemiro as there’s literally no other option in the squad that fills his role.
Not necessarily - Everton are shite! And I'd not be too bothered if we did anyway, like I said we already going to Wembley for the Carabao so the extra rest for Top 4 battle and EL is more beneficial to me than an FA Cup run
I guess some might prioritise the FA Cup over EL but one has to go - we don't have the squad yet to fight on 4 fronts
He's rotated pretty well in defence (apart from RB) but players like Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno and Rashford in particular are playing too much
There's no point having a debate on retrospective actions as people won't offer their own views over defending the manager.
It's far better to ask if Rashford, Eriksen, Bruno should get any games off til the rest of the season. It seems ridiculous to suggest no to that of course so which games on our schedule do you rest them?
It's far better to ask if Rashford, Eriksen, Bruno should get any games off til the rest of the season. It seems ridiculous to suggest no to that of course so which games on our schedule do you rest them?
There are some players you'd like to see rested more... obviously the ones we miss the most when they don't play.
On a positive, what I will say is that overall, this team looks fitter and stronger than they have in years. Ten Hag deserves a lot of credit for improving that aspect of the team.
On a positive, what I will say is that overall, this team looks fitter and stronger than they have in years. Ten Hag deserves a lot of credit for improving that aspect of the team.
The more chance we have of winning a trophy?
The better the team will get due to playing at the highest level and winning, thus gaining confidence and creating a winning aura?
Both of the above?
Of course it will potentially hurt us, we are an injury to Casemiro, Bruno or Rashford from dropping like a stone.
Obviously if we are lucky enough to have them all stay fit we should still be ok for 4th, although I see Chelsea climbing the league with their new additions.
Obviously if we are lucky enough to have them all stay fit we should still be ok for 4th, although I see Chelsea climbing the league with their new additions.
Nah, we're not challenging for the title and so the odd slip-up here and there won't cost us too much in the league as long as we maintain (or closely maintain) our current performance levels. We should be able to coast to top four from here, bearing in-mind we have played Arsenal twice and City twice, seem to be improving week-to-week and given our rivals have shown themselves to have bigger weaknesses.
That means we don't have to worry so much about resting players in the cups and can go all-out to win them. Personally, I'd rather finish 4th and win a trophy than finish 2nd and win a trophy, as long as we're still moving toward a team that can compete in the league over 38 games
That means we don't have to worry so much about resting players in the cups and can go all-out to win them. Personally, I'd rather finish 4th and win a trophy than finish 2nd and win a trophy, as long as we're still moving toward a team that can compete in the league over 38 games
Come March theres a likelihood that Liverpool will only be playing one game a week til the end of the season too. Who knows if they get a few more of their players come back fit what they could do in the end? Lot of football to play
I'm glad he's going all out for the cups, this squad desperately needs to win something. A trophy and a top four finish will be an excellent season and set us up for greater things next year. I don't believe we're jeopardizing a top four finish by putting a strong team out in the domestic cups. We could have a trophy by the end of next month.
I am not a huge fan of lots of rotation. I like having a set, strongest starting 11 that starts most games, as well as the important games (And I do view these cup ties as important games, we do need to win a trophy of some sort) with a few players that rotate in as needed.
I think it's quite clear now that ETH cares more about first XI cohesion than resting players for the sake of it. I don't know if that's the right approach, but I can understand it considering how little time we have to train between games. I trust the manager on this one. I just hope he doesn't underestimate the physical aspect of the league, intensity etc.
Look McTominay, Malacia, Maguire and Garancho deserve minutes and they are not getting much and thats down to ETH
This. Lack of rotation is a result of a squad that's not good and not big enough. Which is something that should have been adressed in the summer. But we are owned by leeches so nothing new there.
One of the most difficult decisions a Head Coach/Manager needs to make is Matchday squad selection and starting XI, a manager not only considers opponents, but form of players, fitness, tactics and suitability, etc... and with all that, rotation becomes more trickier, and in Ten Hag's case, I see it more as tactics and suitability, which means certain players he can't afford to rest, like Bruno, Eriksen and Cas, they are too important to rest/rotate and their replacement (Fred, McTominay, VdB, Iqbal? etc...) are not good enough to start games except for Fred in certain games, Ten Hag does have some flexibility in CB/FB, where Malacia & AWB are doing well instead of Shaw & Dalot, also against smaller teams he can start with Maguire & Lindelof and rest Varane & Martinez, and in attack, Garnacho has become a serious option as a sub or as a starter in some games.
I don’t understand the logic behind your argument. At the central level, are you advocating we drop our most important players against physical sides for the fear of being hacked down? No manager will agree to the above approach.
I can understand the fatigue argument, but an injury that Eriksen sustained cannot be mitigated against. That is just cowardice and no successful manager plans like this. We are not 1 or 2 games away from a CL final, we are in the middle of the season and you cannot justify leaving out players just to protect against impact injuries.
We are playing a game every 4 days, we are ridiculously dependent on the likes of Rashford and Casemiro and we simply lack the strength in depth to compete on all fronts. We simply have to take risks and prioritise between what's important and what is not. If the reserves can't take Reading then we probably don't deserve to be in the FA cup. May I remind you that our reserves include Ole's 130m rated defensive duo Maguire and AWB, Swede international Lindelof, the likes of Fred, Elanga, Garnacho, Pellistri and there should be 70m rated Sancho in the mix as well. It should be able to defeat a team whose currently 16th place in the Championship.
arguably, mctom and maguire don't 'deserve minutes'. they'll be used for cover as needed until the end of the season and then moved on.
It definitely will, players can't sustain playing that many matches without getting injured it'll happen sooner or later.
I remember ten Hag being criticized for lack of rotation in Ajax as well. I do think besides Malacia and arguably Garnacho we don't have quality players on the bench that can start without the team's performance taking a hit.
I remember ten Hag being criticized for lack of rotation in Ajax as well. I do think besides Malacia and arguably Garnacho we don't have quality players on the bench that can start without the team's performance taking a hit.
Malacia and Garnacho are being used as they should - sparingly and to develop. I would argue McTominay and Maguire have used all their "deserved minutes" up over the past 3 years when others should have been playing instead of them.
Yes we will burn out with this fixture pile up