Lack of rotation: Will this hurt us deeper in the season?
- Thread starter Samid
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He’s actually been rotating just as much as he can. We have the most strength in depth in defence, so he’s given Shaw, Varane and Martinez plenty of time off. Up front Rashford is on one of those hot streaks where a goalscorer will expect to play every game. Anthony had a good long break before the World Cup and with Martial out he can’t bench Weghorst.
Midfield is the one and only area where he could be criticised for not resting players but it’s where he have basically no depth, due to McT’s abysmal recent performances. Casemiro had a day off against Arsenal and we‘re literally half the team without him than we are with him. Plus he started the season relatively late, so doesn’t have the same mileage as everyone else.
So yeah, the criticism about a lack of rotation is over the top. He’s been using the squad as well as possible
Eriksen’s injury had nothing to do with a lack of rest.
It's an absolute necessity to do that. But I'm not sure it's enough. Was hoping to give the main players just bit part roles over these 3 cup matches so that they are all properly fresh for the next run of league games, the 2 Barcelona ties and the cup final where we'll have to rotate a bit anyway.
It's not an individual game by game basis. It's match and minute load as the season goes on. You need breaks here and there to stay fresh for another run. This was a great chance to give them breaks... Especially Eriksen, Rashford. He's recognized that Varane needs it so I'm glad he hasn't played Varane in these games, and Martinez got a game off too. Shaw is ill but it works out in his favor. But Casemiro, Eriksen, Rashford and Bruno should have been rotated much more IMO.
I didn't say it did.
It's just frustrating to see him get injured in a game that Fred could have easily started in.
Strange, because ETH has been rotating regularly, just not most of the team as some seem to want.
Eriksen, Rashford and Bruno have to be concerns. We absolutely could've started Garnacho on one wing with Antony on the other. He's had the stress fracture from being overplayed before, so we know what can happen with him. And have Fred start both of these 2 games ahead of one of Bruno or Eriksen so they both get a game off (he's plenty good enough). Can still go strong and just have Fred and Garnacho start a couple of games next to Casemiro, Bruno or Eriksen, and Antony.
I like that he's resting Varane, Martinez is probably fine anyway, and Casemiro as you said missed the game just before anyway. But with our fixture list we are definitely in take what rest you can get territory.
Injuries happen. He’s only been playing an hour or so each game anyway. That’s sustainable. The plan was obviously to do the same again tonight.
I agree, but without Casemiro we are dogshit.
I remember people being worried about Ronaldo being overplayed when he starting scoring every game and became undroppable. But players like that expect to start every game. They won’t want a hot streak interrupted and most managers accommodate that desire. Rashford was annoyed enough being subbed up. Ending his home goals in a row streak. He would have been furious if ETH didn’t start him.
It’s a big risk playing your starting 11 in every game. Think we could have rested rashford tonight and started garnacho. I think he’ll rotate for the forest game though as we’re quite comfortable. With it being the first round of a new cup I don’t think he wanted to risk a lot of rotation. Good to see he’s managing Varane well though.
Fair enough, but it's also something a manager has to be clear with the player on. Rashford has had multiple years of getting played through knocks which killed his form in the past. No need to repeat it by playing him vs Reading. Especially not this upcoming midweek. We'll see how much we rotate. Would love to in general see how many minutes everyone has played across all competitions and how it compares with others though.
And Sir Alex still rested Ronaldo on occasion. Hell, he rested Ronaldo away to Chelsea in a big title game in late season 07/08 where we lost.
I think we can assume Rashford isn’t playing through a knock right now. It’s obvious by how well he’s playing.
Feel this is a short term loss for a long term gain. If the Glazers see that Ten Hag can achieve big things but ETH shows that he lacks squad depth. Fan pressure may get to the Glazers in the summer.
We need squas depth and if can win with rubbish under ETH, how are we going to convince the Glazers we need to splash out on improving the bench
We need squas depth and if can win with rubbish under ETH, how are we going to convince the Glazers we need to splash out on improving the bench
100% it will bite us.
You don’t know that. Fatigue can lead to an increased risk of injury. This is a guy who covers a lot of distance, has looked knackered in almost every second half of late and was starting his 5th match in 15 days. Maybe on another day he has more energy and juice in his body and doesn’t get injured from that tackle. We don’t know for sure either way.
You’re claiming he only plays about an hour which isn’t true. In the last 15 days: 72, 83, 71, 90 and 57 (presumably because of the injury or he’d have played more). That’s a fair bit more than an hour, and a lot of game time in exactly two weeks.
There was no valid reason to start him over Fred tonight.
Sure the squad depth isn’t great but if you’re refusing to start the likes of Fred, Garnacho, Pellistri and Elanga against Reading then you’re essentially banking on your 3 main midfielders and your 3-4 main forwards to stay fit and fresh for the rest of the season. And then injuries like this one look proper daft because you have to rely on fringe players in important matches when you didn’t believe they could do the job at home against lower league opposition.
These days we have a very expensive medical and sports science department. I would assume they advise the manager.
Samid, can you take over from ETH, hes clearly getting it all wrong.
Eriksen's injury wasn't because he was overplayed, it was because Andy Carroll is a miserable excuse of a footballer and put in an absolutely ridiculous challenge.
I don't think it's fair to blame Ten Hag for an injury that's caused by an opposition player being a thuggish cnut; as @Pogue Mahone pointed out, this could've happened in any game and is almost impossible for managers to prepare for.
I don't think it's fair to blame Ten Hag for an injury that's caused by an opposition player being a thuggish cnut; as @Pogue Mahone pointed out, this could've happened in any game and is almost impossible for managers to prepare for.
The Glazers won't be here.
We hope
Knives are out for EtH.
We finally play some good football but moaners are moaning about fecking rotation. Eveyone can see that our squad is thin. People are fast to forget beatings from last season when we played McFred, Lindelof and Maguire.
We finally play some good football but moaners are moaning about fecking rotation. Eveyone can see that our squad is thin. People are fast to forget beatings from last season when we played McFred, Lindelof and Maguire.
Sure, but managers and players ultimately make their own choices... Ajax fans did say multiple times they ten Hag didn't like rotating sometimes to their detriment. I just think it'll eventually come back to bite us in the ass, and will be something he learns from. There's a reason every manager/club does it, and we've done it the least while having a mostly older squad and playing the most games. It's a bad mixture.
We are in a good position for our top 4 chase. We can rotate in the league too. ETH clearly wants us to challenge for the cups too along with the top 4 charge which is the right outlook
Fred getting injured would also have hurt us. Our position in the league is pretty good and this is a knockout game
I think ETH priority this season is to win something. At least a trophy to kickstart title challenge next year.
The way I see it, if we secure 3rd/4th place and a couple of trophies, I'd be happy. If this is the way then I'm trusting the manager.
The way I see it, if we secure 3rd/4th place and a couple of trophies, I'd be happy. If this is the way then I'm trusting the manager.
Yup this. We have to be trying to win everything. If you play a severely weakened team, you send a message to your players that it is ok to lose.
Nothing about a match where we had 80% possession & played 25 mins against 10 men is gonna “run players into the ground”.
May as well cancel training if you think that would be the case.
Nothing about a match where we had 80% possession & played 25 mins against 10 men is gonna “run players into the ground”.
May as well cancel training if you think that would be the case.
Also this, I thought 2nd half only the young players giving some full sprints.
Look at Maguire body language..like playing Sunday league.
Aye, Maguire and the other played it at training pace. In fact, he’ll have much harder training days over the next week.
Folk on here don’t have love a moan.
This.
Before the match I hoped ETH would start half the strongest 11 in this match, then start the other half against Forest. Both teams would be strong enough that we shouldn't have any accidents (and if things weren't going well we always had our normal starters on the bench), all the players would get a bit of a rest, and the squad players would get a match or two. Unless he intends to rotate significantly against Forest, it just felt unnecessarily strong against Reading.
Ferguson used to rotate heavily. We still ended up with more injuries than any other team. Training methods are more important for injuries than a match. At that time chelsea hardly rotated but still had a team to go deep in every competition. Look at the team we played at Wolfsburg away in the champions league 2010.
Thought EtH rotated enough for a win. No need to risk a replay and congest our fixture list even further. 60-70mins for Eriksen, Rashford and Bruno is fair enough when we have almost 80% control of the ball and not having to exert ourselves too much. Hopefully we will have Martial and Sancho back for the 2nd part of the season to contribute enough. Eriksens injury is unfortunate but not caused by needing a rest. He rarely finishes 90mins in a game anyway. I'm sure the sports science behind the scenes will indicate who will need to rest and when and EtH will act accordingly.
Against forest, I hope we totally rest the likes of bruno and rashford. These are the guys who look really tired at the end of games and have played the most. They are also crucial to our game. Eriksen is another one but looks like the injury will keep him out for a couple of weeks, at least. Would happily let Maguire and Lindelof start again in the second leg
We really need martial, Sancho and Dalot back soon to have more options.
The only one who I believe from the get go is crucial to our team beyond anyone else is varane. Really hope and pray that he stays fit and is probably rotated.
We really need martial, Sancho and Dalot back soon to have more options.
The only one who I believe from the get go is crucial to our team beyond anyone else is varane. Really hope and pray that he stays fit and is probably rotated.
ETH wants to rotate. But the depth of the squad is really too thin.
We subs on Garnacho, Mainoo, Elanga, Pellistri who are all only youngsters, is it sure to put them in starting 11 tonight?
Eriksen's knock is nothing about rotation, should blame on Carroll instead of ETH.
We subs on Garnacho, Mainoo, Elanga, Pellistri who are all only youngsters, is it sure to put them in starting 11 tonight?
Eriksen's knock is nothing about rotation, should blame on Carroll instead of ETH.
The rotational zealots really are the most boring.
I remember the days of Ferguson playing Berbatov at centre half and people wanking themselves silly in spite of the obvious detriment it had on our ability to win trophies. We didn’t win an FA Cup for over a decade, and struggled in big league games, exactly because of the ludicrous rotational policy that was in place at the time. Other than Giggs and Scholes, nobody would benefit.
Ten Hag wants to win trophies. He’s (almost) in one final, and clearly wants to win another. Rotation will happen against Forest due to the 3-0 win our first team managed last week.
As for Eriksen, he was victim to a shit challenge, just like Van de Beek was. This could happen in any game, at any time, and is very much luck of the draw. If these were muscle injuries then complainants would have merit, but they’re not.
I remember the days of Ferguson playing Berbatov at centre half and people wanking themselves silly in spite of the obvious detriment it had on our ability to win trophies. We didn’t win an FA Cup for over a decade, and struggled in big league games, exactly because of the ludicrous rotational policy that was in place at the time. Other than Giggs and Scholes, nobody would benefit.
Ten Hag wants to win trophies. He’s (almost) in one final, and clearly wants to win another. Rotation will happen against Forest due to the 3-0 win our first team managed last week.
As for Eriksen, he was victim to a shit challenge, just like Van de Beek was. This could happen in any game, at any time, and is very much luck of the draw. If these were muscle injuries then complainants would have merit, but they’re not.
It would be glorious if we manage to win both the cups. Feck Europa though, best course of action would be crashing out.
I do know that. Because I saw what happened. We all did.
ETH was totally right to play a strong line up. it was 0-0 at ht and you could say that the 2nd string lost 1-0 against 10 men. injuries are part of the game, eth will manage this
RotateCafe strikes again. People on this place are so obsessed with resting players. This is despite the fact Fergie was never massive on rotation and managers like Klopp are the same. When your best players are fit to play then play them more often than not, especially as our squad can’t handle full time rotation. We just need to hope that players like Martial and Sancho can enter the scene at some point to offer some additional support.