That was our second string backline so there were 4 players who aren't in our best 11 for various reasons. Would one more player have appeased you?
Lack of rotation: Will this hurt us deeper in the season?
- Thread starter Samid
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That was our second string backline so there were 4 players who aren't in our best 11 for various reasons. Would one more player have appeased you?
He did rotate. Maguire and Lindelof starting meant we needed a strong midfield in front of them. Had Varane and Martinez played maybe Casemiro could have been rested.
Though in general all managerdare reluctant to rotate when they're first building their teams. They have a core set of players they trust and they are hesitant to play the bench. Over a couple of windows those bench players get replaced by better options and then the manager is more comfortable rotating. I'm sure ETH will do the same.
Its working so far anyway as we are still in all competitions and look a solid bet for top 4 if not better.
Though in general all managerdare reluctant to rotate when they're first building their teams. They have a core set of players they trust and they are hesitant to play the bench. Over a couple of windows those bench players get replaced by better options and then the manager is more comfortable rotating. I'm sure ETH will do the same.
Its working so far anyway as we are still in all competitions and look a solid bet for top 4 if not better.
The manager knows the players and their limitations better than us I would hope! Those that want constant rotation would have had us knocked out of all 3 cups by now so that players could be rested -and looking at yet another exciting race for the 4th spot as the only thing to look forward to. As for Ajax fans criticism of his lack of rotation as an annoying aspect of his management I bet they wish they had him back just now. In TenHag I trust. Carry on picking your ‘best team”, young man!
only that we won't play a dalot-varane-martinez-shaw backline against forrest/crystal palace
Yes, to answer the question in the thread. ETH and his coaching staff, and the players have been fantastic so far, so we have to see what we can do. Yesterday was good for many players.. Malacia (who I think is a v v good player, great prospect..) Maguire, Antony, AWB, Fred... they need game time, all were pretty decent and it was the perfect game for all of them, no pressure at all... we need Sancho back.
This has to be a windup surely? Fergie would throw out pisstake lineups in the cups regularly.
Klopp didn’t take the cups seriously for years. Even nowadays he doesn’t go strong unless he reaches the final couple of rounds.
If the squad can’t handle rotation then you have to pick your battles carefully. Bin off one competition and focus on the other 3 until you have enough depth to challenge for everything. “We can’t handle rotation, therefore we will go strong in all four competitions” is daft beyond belief.
Neither Fergie nor Klopp would’ve ever gone this strong at home against lower league opposition with the brutal schedule coming up.
It will probably hurt us just like it did when Ole never rotated. But that's on EtH if it happens, hopefully he knows what he's doing.
We're winning most games, and lost the game he was forced to play Mctominay in, how anyone can deny he is not doing the right thing is a mystery.
Injuries will hurt us for sure, but that says more about the squad than what ETH is doing. If he'd been rotating the sqaud to protect the players he deems fit to win games then we wouldn't have the points we have now, and might not be in all the cups still, which is surely a better place to be.
Injuries will hurt us for sure, but that says more about the squad than what ETH is doing. If he'd been rotating the sqaud to protect the players he deems fit to win games then we wouldn't have the points we have now, and might not be in all the cups still, which is surely a better place to be.
You can’t rest before the busy schedule. That doesn’t make any sense at all.
What difference would it make if the players have a week off before the Palace game or 10 days? Would it make them fresher for the 4th game v Leeds (or whoever we play)within that 12 days period?
I'm not sure I understand the point you're making.
I think it will. The team was far too strong to start against Reading. We have a game every 3 days for a month, players need resting.
Since Fergie retired this has been one of the biggest issues facing United. Usually because we are so poor in the league, managers field stronger sides in the cup games trying to win a trophy. It invariably harms the league form. I would much rather get knocked out of the Europa League, focus on top 4 and League cup. Maybe the FA cup as well depending on our draw.
Since Fergie retired this has been one of the biggest issues facing United. Usually because we are so poor in the league, managers field stronger sides in the cup games trying to win a trophy. It invariably harms the league form. I would much rather get knocked out of the Europa League, focus on top 4 and League cup. Maybe the FA cup as well depending on our draw.
I wouldn't agree with that going on what I saw. Too many "youngsters" on the pitch at the same time made us look very unorganized. We wouldn't have won that game with that starting line up.
Ole ran the players into the ground as well. I am hopping Murtough has a backbone, and can just make players unavailable to ETH based on what the guidance of the medical department.
Considering ETH desperately wanting to bring a trophy to OT, then I understand his actions. Starting with a strong 11, hopefully putting the game to bed by half time, then bring the kids on. Makes sense!
It’s a lack of depth that'll cost us. Not enough quality to cover our midfielders hence why Eriksen and Casemiro start a lot.
It was more that I expected it to be spread around. One of Casemiro and Eriksen. One of Bruno and Rashford. Etc. And then against Forest it'd be the other one starting.
If he rests the entire midfield and attack against Forest then he'll ultimately do what I hoped, but it will make that game a bit risky with so many changes. We are 3-0 up though so maybe that is the plan. Eriksen, Bruno and Rashford are the three main ones that absolutely should be rested in one of the games, so we'll see if that does happen (Eriksen looks to be forced now). Casemiro (rested against Arsenal) and Wout (hasn't played that much and will be able to be rested once Martial is fit) aren't as important, and to some extent Antony as well.
The drop off in quality between first choice and second or third choice is huge in some areas. Shite like Maguire and McTominay just can't be trusted to help us beat even the weakest teams. It's no surprise Ten Hag doesn't rotate much. I'm sure that'll change when he's able to replace the trash players
This is a parody post, right?
What is the point of having a deep squad, if you always start with the same 11 players?
Yes Casemiro and Eriksen are irreplaceable, but so is Rashford, Bruno. I mentioned this in another thread so let me repeat it here.
There are players that require protection from manager, whether due to age or injury prone, such as Varane, Shaw, Martial, Casemiro, Eriksen.
There are players that need to avoid burnout, eventhough they appear to be good to play 50 games a season, such as Bruno, Rashford, DDG.
If you don't take advantage of "easy" opponents, you are running your best 11 down. IMO ETH is managing MU like Ajax or Brighton, not a major EPL club that is expected to be involved in multiple competition.
The point would be not to start the same 11 players?
We’ve actually rotated well over the last 5 matches if you look at the stats. Key players are playing an hour before being subbed and others are being rested completely.
Training will be so minimal at this time or the year and these players are more than capable of averaging 60-75 minutes of football every 3-4 days.
People are looking at the lineup each match and shocked to see Eriksen playing but he’s averaging 70mins a match in the FA Cup and 54mins in the League Cup, that’s perfectly manageable.
Varane has been managed well too having entire games off. Martinez should be fresh with the break he has had.
Casemiro is in the prime of his life and can play 90 mins every game no worries. Bruno and Rashford the same.
Our fullbacks have been rotated, maybe due to injuries but it’s still the case. Malacia and Wan Bissaka have been playing recently and before that it was always Shaw and Dalot. That’s an indicator for depth.
I’m really not seeing where the issue is.
Training will be so minimal at this time or the year and these players are more than capable of averaging 60-75 minutes of football every 3-4 days.
People are looking at the lineup each match and shocked to see Eriksen playing but he’s averaging 70mins a match in the FA Cup and 54mins in the League Cup, that’s perfectly manageable.
Varane has been managed well too having entire games off. Martinez should be fresh with the break he has had.
Casemiro is in the prime of his life and can play 90 mins every game no worries. Bruno and Rashford the same.
Our fullbacks have been rotated, maybe due to injuries but it’s still the case. Malacia and Wan Bissaka have been playing recently and before that it was always Shaw and Dalot. That’s an indicator for depth.
I’m really not seeing where the issue is.
Huh...this can't be serious right?
Bruno’s always been a freak in terms of his ability to play and play but the injury to VDB probably means ETH’s hand is being forced. Casemiro sat out the Arsenal game so he’s had his mini break. Plus McT’s injury meant we don’t have an obvious replacement. I think Rashford started so he could have a crack at the record. I’d say there’s an excellent chance he won’t play again until the Palace game. Which is a decent break.
This site has always had a weird fixation with rotation. In the matchday threads, if it's not a top four opponent you usually get a few posters licking their lips at the chance of some rotation. Every bad second half is diagnosed as the players being knackered. When SAF was in ultra rotation mode we rarely found a real top level, struggled to go far in the CL and cups with not having a set starting 11.
As many have said he has rotated in positions he is comfortable with and subbed early. This is hardly unusual as a new manager tries to get the team to perform at the highest possible level.
United have struggled against a low block at home for years now so it's a good opportunity to work on how to do that. Throwing away every relatively easy game for massive rotation could bring a whole lot of more problems than it solves.
As many have said he has rotated in positions he is comfortable with and subbed early. This is hardly unusual as a new manager tries to get the team to perform at the highest possible level.
United have struggled against a low block at home for years now so it's a good opportunity to work on how to do that. Throwing away every relatively easy game for massive rotation could bring a whole lot of more problems than it solves.
I think you also have to take into account what really causes fatigue and injuries which is generally when players are playing in tough competitive matches consistently for 90 minutes or worse 120 minutes. When they’re really stretching themselves for long periods going above and beyond and testing their limits.
That’s not really been the case recently at all, as I said above we are giving players days off and where possible most key players are off after an hour.
Everton, Reading, Charlton, Nottingham Forest etc we have been so comfortable that the players left on the field have been playing within themselves.
The players ETH is not rotating have no competent replacements on the bench. The only exception is maybe Rashford, I would’ve liked to see Garnacho start the cup ties.
On the other side, I think ETH is hoping Antony will improve with plenty of minutes, and there are definitely signs of improvement.
On the other side, I think ETH is hoping Antony will improve with plenty of minutes, and there are definitely signs of improvement.
The counter point to sticking with the same XI is they become more in sync with each other the more they play together, which is a good thing. We’re beginning to see more moves in play where players take one touch passes in close proximity to eachother which results in a good goalscoring opportunities, meaning low blocks can be cut through like a hot knife through butter.
There will have to be more rotation if we get through against Barca in the Europa. I’m sure if Dalot, Shaw, Martial and Sancho were all available we’d be seeing more changes as well.
ETH is desperate to win at least one trophy and I think he doesn’t trust Mcfred and thinks we lack goals without Rashford so he’s probably hoping to be able to sub off Casemiro, Eriksen and Rashford.
Once he’s got some more of his own players who he trusts we’ll probably see more rotation next season if required.
ETH is desperate to win at least one trophy and I think he doesn’t trust Mcfred and thinks we lack goals without Rashford so he’s probably hoping to be able to sub off Casemiro, Eriksen and Rashford.
Once he’s got some more of his own players who he trusts we’ll probably see more rotation next season if required.
Yeah not having them available definitely means we can't rotate as much as ideally possible
The point is to plan 3 games in advance. Think about which game has higher priority, which game can afford a weaker squad, allowing fringe players to practise and learn. If you always start with the same 11, rotate only when forced due to injury or suspension, then you can hardly need more than 15 field players.
Someone complain we lack a deep squad. For argument sake let's pay 100m for Rice, pay him 200K/w, who only get to play against Arsenal due to Casemiro suspension. Who probably play against Reading. Then back to the bench for the rest of the month until Casemiro is injured or when we face Barcelona. Hold on, Barca is an important game, Rice back to the bench until the 80th min. Not something that I would call motivation, right?
The games in around the revamp after the world cup are a great example of how poor the second team is. There's too much of a gap between the capability of the first team and the bench even.
Eriksen who has had life changing experience on the field, has a decent season at Brentford after being uneventful at Inter-Milan comes in on a free and is easily the second best central midfielder alongside Casemiro. It's a great example that the likes of Fred and Mctomminay are not good enough for the club realistically.
None of the younger lads have really taken the opportunity aside Garnacho. People can critique the manager but the players at his disposal are significantly lacking especially for the level of this league to remain competitive.
Eriksen who has had life changing experience on the field, has a decent season at Brentford after being uneventful at Inter-Milan comes in on a free and is easily the second best central midfielder alongside Casemiro. It's a great example that the likes of Fred and Mctomminay are not good enough for the club realistically.
None of the younger lads have really taken the opportunity aside Garnacho. People can critique the manager but the players at his disposal are significantly lacking especially for the level of this league to remain competitive.
I think in next 2 months players will start breaking down and we may end up with Chelsea like injury situation and end season in an absolute disaster.
All that may not happen, but I won't be too surprised if it does.
Our starting XI midfield 3 are so different type midfield to the 3 we have as backup. It shows we actually need to buy new midfields for squad depth, and sell McFred and VDB.
As for Antony's and Weghorst's rotation, Sancho is currently not ready to play while Martial is still injured.
As for Antony's and Weghorst's rotation, Sancho is currently not ready to play while Martial is still injured.
Yeah we definitely need to improve our quality of midfield depth that's for sure because like you say drop off is huge
Some positions sure you want similar cover but you definitely also want squad players who can vary it up from the bench as impact subs. You need to be versatile to be able to change tactics now and then, change profiles... Not just sub on and do better than the last guy with the same job. That's why I like Fred for Eriksen. Provides a lot of plus points that Eriksen doesn't, while also obviously having minuses. We're probably harder to beat with Fred starting tbh.
I will sell McFred and VDB and buy Mac Allister and a free agent Jorginho. I'm bit sceptical to sign 31 or 32 years old Jorginho but he's free and technically gifted to play in possession based team.
We can have these five as rotation in our midfield: Casemiro, Bruno, Mac Allister, Eriksen, Jorginho.
Mac Allister has playmaking ability and can score goals. While Jorginho has better passing ability than Casemiro. So they can also provide variation from the bench as impact subs. Another alternative is free agent Rabiot.
This summer could be a big one in terms of buying some reinforcements.
Comparing Arsenal to United's minutes this season so far. It's obvious our midfielders have played way more minutes, especially Bruno who has about 850 minutes more than Odegaard already, plus ~400 minutes in World Cup. Even Casemiro who started late has already 450 minutes more than Thomas Partey, plus ~400 minutes in World Cup..
Source: https://www.transfermarkt.us/manchester-united/leistungsdaten/verein/985
https://www.transfermarkt.us/fc-arsenal/leistungsdaten/verein/11
Then you consider that most of United players were in World Cup also.
| # | Player | Age | Min | # | Player | Age | Min | |
| 6 | Gabriel Magalhães | 25 | 2.293' | 1 | David de Gea | 32 | 2.610' | |
| 34 | Granit Xhaka | 30 | 2.107' | 8 | Bruno Fernandes | 28 | 2.603' | |
| 11 | Gabriel Martinelli | 21 | 2.040' | 14 | Christian Eriksen | 30 | 2.276' | |
| 7 | Bukayo Saka | 21 | 2.034' | 10 | Marcus Rashford | 25 | 2.243' | |
| 12 | William Saliba | 21 | 1.983' | 6 | Lisandro Martínez | 25 | 2.033' | |
| 1 | Aaron Ramsdale | 24 | 1.890' | 18 | Casemiro | 30 | 1.971' | |
| 8 | Martin Ødegaard | 24 | 1.766' | 20 | Diogo Dalot | 23 | 1.849' | |
| 4 | Ben White | 25 | 1.720' | 12 | Tyrell Malacia | 23 | 1.724' | |
| 5 | Thomas Partey | 29 | 1.529' | 23 | Luke Shaw | 27 | 1.643' | |
| 9 | Gabriel Jesus | 25 | 1.453' | 21 | Antony | 22 | 1.510' | |
| 14 | Eddie Nketiah | 23 | 1.380' | 19 | Raphaël Varane | 29 | 1.301' | |
| 3 | Kieran Tierney | 25 | 1.142' | 2 | Victor Lindelöf | 28 | 1.213' | |
| 18 | Takehiro Tomiyasu | 24 | 1.033' | 39 | Scott McTominay | 26 | 1.144' | |
| 35 | Oleksandr Zinchenko | 26 | 1.000' | - | Cristiano Ronaldo | 37 | 1.051' | |
Source: https://www.transfermarkt.us/manchester-united/leistungsdaten/verein/985
https://www.transfermarkt.us/fc-arsenal/leistungsdaten/verein/11
Then you consider that most of United players were in World Cup also.
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He should be able to do some serious rotation against Forest as he is not going to do it against Premier League sides or Barca.