La Liga/Serie A/Bundesliga Draft

i hate you guys, know you are going to pick him.....
 
We pick
photo.jpg

@Balu
Raimond Aumann
 
  1. KM /Cal? - 1. Zlatan 2. Reus 3. Buchwald 4. Albertini 5. Boban 6. Filipe Luis 7. Griezmann 8. Senna 9. Piszczek 10. Courtois 11. Bonucci
  2. Downcast/KirkDuyt - 1. Neymar 2. Yaya Touré 3. Falcao 4. Di Maria 5. Maicon 6. Özil 7. Heinrich 8. Vieira 9. Stankovic 10. Materrazzi 11. Júlio César da Silva
  3. Gio - 1. Nedved 2. Veron 3. Reuter 4. Deschamps 5. Puyol 6. Bratseth 7. Careca 8. Michel 9. Thon 10. Sergi 11. Chilavert
  4. Enigma_87/Snow - 1. Kaka 2. Villa 3. Lucio 4. Modric 5. Schneider 6. Marcelo 7. Helmer 8. Salgado 9. Conte 10. Vialli 11. van der Sar
  5. Crappycraperson - 1. Totti 2. Savićević 3. Bale 4. Kroos 5. Popescu 6. Jorginho 7. Jeremies 8. Grosso 9. Gamarra 10. Canizares 11. Ivan Cordoba
  6. Joga Bonito/Balu - 1. Bergomi 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Dani Alves 4. Häßler 5. Forlán 6. Ferri 7. Dunga 8. Aimar 9. Crespo 10. Carboni 11. Eike Immel
  7. mazhar13/Boycott - 1. Shevchenko 2. Aldair 3. Donadoni 4. Luis Enrique 5. Cocu 6. Pique 7. Chendo 8. Kahn 9. Serginho 10. Uwe Bein 11. Wynton Rufer
  8. VivaJanuzaj/MJJ - 1. Müller 2. Eto'o 3. Guardiola 4. T. Silva 5. Samuel 6. Abidal 7. Sneijder 8. Khedira 9. Robinho 10. Klos 11. Carvajal
  9. RedTiger - 1. Ballack 2. Zambrotta 3 Ayala 4. Vidal 5. Aguero 6. Paulo Sousa 7. Panucci 8. Francescoli 9. Wörns 10. Butt 11. Mijatovic
  10. Aldo/The Stain - 1. Davids 2. Littbarski 3. Mendieta 4. Montero 5. Makaay 6. Henry 7. Mascherano 8. Angloma 9. Candela 10. Linke 11. Aumann
  11. Marty1968 - 1. Seedorf 2. Costacurta 3. Berthold 4. Gattuso 5. Scholl 6. Benarrivo 7.Babbel 8. Butragueño 9. Zamorano 10. Lehmann
  12. Sjor Bepo/anant - 1. Stam 2. Alaba 3. Camoranesi 4. Godin 5. Gündoğan 6. Kluivert 7. Javi Martinez 8. Gascoigne 9. Futre 10. Juanfran
  13. Isotope - 1. Cafu 2. Weah 3. Ze Roberto 4. Mauro Silva 5. Hummels 6. Signori 7. Sanchis 8. van Bommel 9. Illgner 10. Valeron
  14. Skizzo/Pat_Mustard - 1. Hierro 2. Ruggeri 3. Klinsmann 4. Bebeto 5. Möller 6. Chiellini 7. Baraja 8. Ziege 9. Pogba 10. Zenga
  15. Tuppet - 1. R. Carlos 2. Zanetti 3. Völler 4. Ferrara 5. Riquelme 6. B. Laudrup 7. Nadal 8. De Rossi 9. Balakov 10. Zubizarreta
  16. Edgar Allan Pillow - 1. B Lizarazu 2. W Sagnol 3. C Vieri 4. J Boateng 5. D Simeone 6. E Cambiasso 7. Deco 8. F de Boer 9. A Kopke 10. F Inzaghi
Blocked list:
Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Busquets, Romario, Redondo, Xavi, Rijkaard, Ronaldinho, Maradona, Messi, Luis Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Van Basten, Baresi, Maldini, Matthaus, Nesta, Kohler, Van Nistelrooy, Suarez, Zidane, Buffon, Casillas, Neuer, Sammer, M. Laudrup, Gullit, Batistuta, Baggio, Pirlo, Stoichkov, Desailly, Thuram, Brehme, Tassotti, Iniesta, Koeman, Raul, Rui Costa, Del Piero, Figo, Rivaldo, Effenberg, Cannavaro, Makelele.

@Marty1968
 
Ok so my next pick, and in my view the best 'eligible' Englishman to play abroad (behind Keegan). Champions League winner twice and Man of the Match in the 2000 final where he scored an absolute beauty. In an era where Madrid bought a new Galactico every year, he managed to adapt to whichever midfield position he played and won the hearts of the Madrid fans by his 100% dedication to the team and versatility.

He won 8 trophies and played in 11 cup finals in four years as well as constantly making the semi-finals of the UEFA Champions league in each of his four years at the club.

Quotes from ex-coach Del Bosque: "together he kept the whole team united. I was very happy with Macca. He was a caballero, a gentleman, a stupendous guy; he always had a smile, he never complained, he was great, a leader. He related to everyone very well; he united people. He was exemplary ... and a good footballer too, very good. A fantastic player in every sense."

Oh and I had to pick the picture below showing Cocu being done like a kipper (he just so happens to be in my opponents team)
article-1380914-005074CB00000258-409_634x400.jpg


A couple of his finest moments in a Madrid shirt for you guys to enjoy.



 
  1. KM /Cal? - 1. Zlatan 2. Reus 3. Buchwald 4. Albertini 5. Boban 6. Filipe Luis 7. Griezmann 8. Senna 9. Piszczek 10. Courtois 11. Bonucci
  2. Downcast/KirkDuyt - 1. Neymar 2. Yaya Touré 3. Falcao 4. Di Maria 5. Maicon 6. Özil 7. Heinrich 8. Vieira 9. Stankovic 10. Materrazzi 11. Júlio César da Silva
  3. Gio - 1. Nedved 2. Veron 3. Reuter 4. Deschamps 5. Puyol 6. Bratseth 7. Careca 8. Michel 9. Thon 10. Sergi 11. Chilavert
  4. Enigma_87/Snow - 1. Kaka 2. Villa 3. Lucio 4. Modric 5. Schneider 6. Marcelo 7. Helmer 8. Salgado 9. Conte 10. Vialli 11. van der Sar
  5. Crappycraperson - 1. Totti 2. Savićević 3. Bale 4. Kroos 5. Popescu 6. Jorginho 7. Jeremies 8. Grosso 9. Gamarra 10. Canizares 11. Ivan Cordoba
  6. Joga Bonito/Balu - 1. Bergomi 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Dani Alves 4. Häßler 5. Forlán 6. Ferri 7. Dunga 8. Aimar 9. Crespo 10. Carboni 11. Eike Immel
  7. mazhar13/Boycott - 1. Shevchenko 2. Aldair 3. Donadoni 4. Luis Enrique 5. Cocu 6. Pique 7. Chendo 8. Kahn 9. Serginho 10. Uwe Bein 11. Wynton Rufer
  8. VivaJanuzaj/MJJ - 1. Müller 2. Eto'o 3. Guardiola 4. T. Silva 5. Samuel 6. Abidal 7. Sneijder 8. Khedira 9. Robinho 10. Klos 11. Carvajal
  9. RedTiger - 1. Ballack 2. Zambrotta 3 Ayala 4. Vidal 5. Aguero 6. Paulo Sousa 7. Panucci 8. Francescoli 9. Wörns 10. Butt 11. Mijatovic
  10. Aldo/The Stain - 1. Davids 2. Littbarski 3. Mendieta 4. Montero 5. Makaay 6. Henry 7. Mascherano 8. Angloma 9. Candela 10. Linke 11. Aumann
  11. Marty1968 - 1. Seedorf 2. Costacurta 3. Berthold 4. Gattuso 5. Scholl 6. Benarrivo 7.Babbel 8. Butragueño 9. Zamorano 10. Lehmann 11. McManaman
  12. Sjor Bepo/anant - 1. Stam 2. Alaba 3. Camoranesi 4. Godin 5. Gündoğan 6. Kluivert 7. Javi Martinez 8. Gascoigne 9. Futre 10. Juanfran
  13. Isotope - 1. Cafu 2. Weah 3. Ze Roberto 4. Mauro Silva 5. Hummels 6. Signori 7. Sanchis 8. van Bommel 9. Illgner 10. Valeron
  14. Skizzo/Pat_Mustard - 1. Hierro 2. Ruggeri 3. Klinsmann 4. Bebeto 5. Möller 6. Chiellini 7. Baraja 8. Ziege 9. Pogba 10. Zenga
  15. Tuppet - 1. R. Carlos 2. Zanetti 3. Völler 4. Ferrara 5. Riquelme 6. B. Laudrup 7. Nadal 8. De Rossi 9. Balakov 10. Zubizarreta
  16. Edgar Allan Pillow - 1. B Lizarazu 2. W Sagnol 3. C Vieri 4. J Boateng 5. D Simeone 6. E Cambiasso 7. Deco 8. F de Boer 9. A Kopke 10. F Inzaghi
Blocked list:
Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Busquets, Romario, Redondo, Xavi, Rijkaard, Ronaldinho, Maradona, Messi, Luis Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Van Basten, Baresi, Maldini, Matthaus, Nesta, Kohler, Van Nistelrooy, Suarez, Zidane, Buffon, Casillas, Neuer, Sammer, M. Laudrup, Gullit, Batistuta, Baggio, Pirlo, Stoichkov, Desailly, Thuram, Brehme, Tassotti, Iniesta, Koeman, Raul, Rui Costa, Del Piero, Figo, Rivaldo, Effenberg, Cannavaro, Makelele.

@Šjor Bepo @anant
 
Marty1968 said:
Ok so my next pick, and in my view the best 'eligible' Englishman to play abroad (behind Keegan). Champions League winner twice and Man of the Match in the 2000 final where he scored an absolute beauty. In an era where Madrid bought a new Galactico every year, he managed to adapt to whichever midfield position he played and won the hearts of the Madrid fans by his 100% dedication to the team and versatility.

He won 8 trophies and played in 11 cup finals in four years as well as constantly making the semi-finals of the UEFA Champions league in each of his four years at the club.

Quotes from ex-coach Del Bosque: "together he kept the whole team united. I was very happy with Macca. He was a caballero, a gentleman, a stupendous guy; he always had a smile, he never complained, he was great, a leader. He related to everyone very well; he united people. He was exemplary ... and a good footballer too, very good. A fantastic player in every sense."

Oh and I had to pick the picture below showing Cocu being done like a kipper (he just so happens to be in my opponents team)
article-1380914-005074CB00000258-409_634x400.jpg


A couple of his finest moments in a Madrid shirt for you guys to enjoy.



Click to expand...


Brilliant pick
 
1634364.jpg


  1. KM /Cal? - 1. Zlatan 2. Reus 3. Buchwald 4. Albertini 5. Boban 6. Filipe Luis 7. Griezmann 8. Senna 9. Piszczek 10. Courtois 11. Bonucci
  2. Downcast/KirkDuyt - 1. Neymar 2. Yaya Touré 3. Falcao 4. Di Maria 5. Maicon 6. Özil 7. Heinrich 8. Vieira 9. Stankovic 10. Materrazzi 11. Júlio César da Silva
  3. Gio - 1. Nedved 2. Veron 3. Reuter 4. Deschamps 5. Puyol 6. Bratseth 7. Careca 8. Michel 9. Thon 10. Sergi 11. Chilavert
  4. Enigma_87/Snow - 1. Kaka 2. Villa 3. Lucio 4. Modric 5. Schneider 6. Marcelo 7. Helmer 8. Salgado 9. Conte 10. Vialli 11. van der Sar
  5. Crappycraperson - 1. Totti 2. Savićević 3. Bale 4. Kroos 5. Popescu 6. Jorginho 7. Jeremies 8. Grosso 9. Gamarra 10. Canizares 11. Ivan Cordoba
  6. Joga Bonito/Balu - 1. Bergomi 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Dani Alves 4. Häßler 5. Forlán 6. Ferri 7. Dunga 8. Aimar 9. Crespo 10. Carboni 11. Eike Immel
  7. mazhar13/Boycott - 1. Shevchenko 2. Aldair 3. Donadoni 4. Luis Enrique 5. Cocu 6. Pique 7. Chendo 8. Kahn 9. Serginho 10. Uwe Bein 11. Wynton Rufer
  8. VivaJanuzaj/MJJ - 1. Müller 2. Eto'o 3. Guardiola 4. T. Silva 5. Samuel 6. Abidal 7. Sneijder 8. Khedira 9. Robinho 10. Klos 11. Carvajal
  9. RedTiger - 1. Ballack 2. Zambrotta 3 Ayala 4. Vidal 5. Aguero 6. Paulo Sousa 7. Panucci 8. Francescoli 9. Wörns 10. Butt 11. Mijatovic
  10. Aldo/The Stain - 1. Davids 2. Littbarski 3. Mendieta 4. Montero 5. Makaay 6. Henry 7. Mascherano 8. Angloma 9. Candela 10. Linke 11. Aumann
  11. Marty1968 - 1. Seedorf 2. Costacurta 3. Berthold 4. Gattuso 5. Scholl 6. Benarrivo 7.Babbel 8. Butragueño 9. Zamorano 10. Lehmann 11. McManaman
  12. Sjor Bepo/anant - 1. Stam 2. Alaba 3. Camoranesi 4. Godin 5. Gündoğan 6. Kluivert 7. Javi Martinez 8. Gascoigne 9. Futre 10. Juanfran 11. Peruzzi
  13. Isotope - 1. Cafu 2. Weah 3. Ze Roberto 4. Mauro Silva 5. Hummels 6. Signori 7. Sanchis 8. van Bommel 9. Illgner 10. Valeron
  14. Skizzo/Pat_Mustard - 1. Hierro 2. Ruggeri 3. Klinsmann 4. Bebeto 5. Möller 6. Chiellini 7. Baraja 8. Ziege 9. Pogba 10. Zenga
  15. Tuppet - 1. R. Carlos 2. Zanetti 3. Völler 4. Ferrara 5. Riquelme 6. B. Laudrup 7. Nadal 8. De Rossi 9. Balakov 10. Zubizarreta
  16. Edgar Allan Pillow - 1. B Lizarazu 2. W Sagnol 3. C Vieri 4. J Boateng 5. D Simeone 6. E Cambiasso 7. Deco 8. F de Boer 9. A Kopke 10. F Inzaghi
Blocked list:
Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Busquets, Romario, Redondo, Xavi, Rijkaard, Ronaldinho, Maradona, Messi, Luis Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Van Basten, Baresi, Maldini, Matthaus, Nesta, Kohler, Van Nistelrooy, Suarez, Zidane, Buffon, Casillas, Neuer, Sammer, M. Laudrup, Gullit, Batistuta, Baggio, Pirlo, Stoichkov, Desailly, Thuram, Brehme, Tassotti, Iniesta, Koeman, Raul, Rui Costa, Del Piero, Figo, Rivaldo, Effenberg, Cannavaro, Makelele.

@Isotope
 
Aldo said:
We pick
photo.jpg

@Balu
Raimond Aumann
Click to expand...
:lol:

I actually haven't thought about that once. And it has nothing to do with my choice for the name on the Caf. It also means I almost accidently picked myself, because he was number 1 on our list before I switched to Immel in the last minute.
 
Enigma_87 said:
His first season he was up to his 1998 level. Granted his second one he was not that good one but this is league peak form and I'd say his first season is right up there with all the others picked so far.
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Begs the question what that actually is, though. We had a similar issue with the PL draft, as I recall it.

In theory you could field a player who was very good for 3/4 of one season, and largely crap in two seasons following that. If you happen to draft him, you'll obviously focus on the former and - simply - claim that this was his (legitimate) peak, and the rest has no relevance.

On a similar note, should a player who was consistently good for several seasons on end get some extra credit for this - or should he be treated exactly like a player who only played one season in the league he represents, and was fairly decent in that season, but obviously better in a different league?

We'll see when the matches kick off, I guess - but for me it isn't unreasonable to focus on Player X's overall career in the league he represents - part of the plot here, after all, is to pit the leagues against each other after a fashion. So - for me, I stress - I would probably consider it a relevant thing to look at how well the player did in the league beyond his absolute peak (which could have been short lived - and which can be defined in several possible ways). As an added factor, that is - not as a primary factor: If the premise is "peak" then it is "peak", one can't ignore that. But "peak" is always problematic to define exactly unless one goes crazy (and that usually takes the fun out of things).
 
I think generally we've used 2-3 years of form as a basis for peak, with anything below that a bit wobbly and anything longer a bonus. So wobbly would mean a performance is not necessarily guaranteed, while a longer peak would almost guarantee the delivery of a performance.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
In theory you could field a player who was very good for 3/4 of one season, and largely crap in two seasons following that. If you happen to draft him, you'll obviously focus on the former and - simply - claim that this was his (legitimate) peak, and the rest has no relevance.
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I was considering a great defender who won the player of the season during his 1st year with the club and got sold off after blamed for poor defence in next season. :lol:
 
Gio said:
I think generally we've used 2-3 years of form as a basis for peak, with anything below that a bit wobbly and anything longer a bonus. So wobbly would mean a performance is not necessarily guaranteed, while a longer peak would almost guarantee the delivery of a performance.
Click to expand...

I don't want to philosophise but there is a difference between "The greatest players in the History of Liga/Calcio/Bundesliga" and "League peak of the Greatest Players".

Maybe, in the future, we can add more objective criteria.

By the way, the criteria "5 nationalities" is anything but an issue!
 
Gio said:
I think generally we've used 2-3 years of form as a basis for peak, with anything below that a bit wobbly and anything longer a bonus. So wobbly would mean a performance is not necessarily guaranteed, while a longer peak would almost guarantee the delivery of a performance.
Click to expand...


think everyone who runs the draft should put peak length in the rules, for all-time drafts its pretty easy as we all know that we are looking at the period of 3 years but this league drafts and such are the problem as its impossible to play with that criteria. Draft master should determine peak for every draft, if we play the league draft or something similar than its a one/two season peak if its Euro/WC then its one tournament or xy number of games and so on for every draft.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
think everyone who runs the draft should put peak length in the rules, for all-time drafts its pretty easy as we all know that we are looking at the period of 3 years but this league drafts and such are the problem as its impossible to play with that criteria. Draft master should determine peak for every draft, if we play the league draft or something similar than its a one/two season peak if its Euro/WC then its one tournament or xy number of games and so on for every draft.
Click to expand...

Don't think that can be easily defined. For example, Vieri was in Atletico for just a season...but I would not hesitate to put that as one of his peaks. There is a bit of argument to be made by managers when it's not as clearly defined. After that it's up to the voters to make their own decision.

Downcast said:
I don't want to philosophise but there is a difference between "The greatest players in the History of Liga/Calcio/Bundesliga" and "League peak of the Greatest Players".

Maybe, in the future, we can add more objective criteria.
Click to expand...

Don't think they are mutually exclusive.
- You cannot be a GOAT in the 3 leagues without having your peak in them. Clear cut.
- If you pick a GOAT whose peak was clearly elsewhere, then it's up the manager to argue that he was good in the 3 leagues as he was elsewhere. Subjective.

In the end, NT form or other leagues form becomes mostly secondary data or totally irrelevant. It's the 3 leagues which takes priority here.
 
Downcast said:
I don't want to philosophise but there is a difference between "The greatest players in the History of Liga/Calcio/Bundesliga" and "League peak of the Greatest Players".

Maybe, in the future, we can add more objective criteria.

By the way, the criteria "5 nationalities" is anything but an issue!
Click to expand...
The 5 nationalities wasn't really intended to be an 'issue' for you all. It was simply to make sure you didn't have 4 italians, 4 germans and 4 spaniards in your team
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Don't think that can be easily defined. For example, Vieri was in Atletico for just a season...but I would not hesitate to put that as one of his peaks. There is a bit of argument to be made by managers when it's not as clearly defined. After that it's up to the voters to make their own decision.

Don't think they are mutually exclusive.
- You cannot be a GOAT in the 3 leagues without having your peak in them. Clear cut.
- If you pick a GOAT whose peak was clearly elsewhere, then it's up the manager to argue that he was good in the 3 leagues as he was elsewhere. Subjective.

In the end, NT form or other leagues form becomes mostly secondary data or totally irrelevant. It's the 3 leagues which takes priority here.
Click to expand...


Totally agree with all this. No need to define the peak any more than we have already. The peak is "league" not "career" and it's your job as manager to argue how effective each and every player was during that time. A player could have been at a particular club for 5/6 years and been cr*p and then move to another club for 2 years and be awesome...Take Forlan for example. Garbage at United for 3 years no matter how much us fans loved him and then a goal machine at Atletico for 3 years.

In my mind, that's the whole point of these drafts...to be able to argue a point about how good a particular player was in the role you've given him and his abilities to be judged on how he performed for that particular club.
 
Marty1968 said:
The 5 nationalities wasn't really intended to be an 'issue' for you all. It was simply to make sure you didn't have 4 italians, 4 germans and 4 spaniards in your team
Click to expand...


Marty1968 said:
Totally agree with all this. No need to define the peak any more than we have already. The peak is "league" not "career" and it's your job as manager to argue how effective each and every player was during that time. A player could have been at a particular club for 5/6 years and been cr*p and then move to another club for 2 years and be awesome...Take Forlan for example. Garbage at United for 3 years no matter how much us fans loved him and then a goal machine at Atletico for 3 years.

In my mind, that's the whole point of these drafts...to be able to argue a point about how good a particular player was in the role you've given him and his abilities to be judged on how he performed for that particular club.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, I have understood :)
 
As we approach the time to pick our "12th man" I couldn't let the moment pass without posting this...

 
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