La Liga/Serie A/Bundesliga Draft

harms said:
You are going to tell me that he isn't considered a flop by Juve fans? There is a reason that he went to Fulham after that and that Juve bought Buffon for a record fee
He was one of the best in Ajax (and, later, for us) and a flop in Juve, no two ways about it
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He was very good in his first season. I don't think he's more error prone to the rest of the keepers that are already picked.
 
Snow said:
Rubbish.
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Enigma_87 said:
Considered one of the best at the time he went to Juve. 2 second finishes with him as #1. He won bronze ball as worlds best keeper in 1998 and that form clinched him the transfer to Juve. Was in his physical peak at the time as well.
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Downcast said:
Sure, the risk is high that he makes excellent saves.

A Dutch Monster: sorry if I oversell :D
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Tbh his time in Juve was the absolute low of his career imo. From world's best at Ajax to being dumped for Buffon in 2 years is a big drop. From what I gather it was a nervy error prone 2 season where he never impressed. He even made Juve all time worst xi in many sites!
 
Well no RB can actually deal properly with Neymar, so we'll take one who can at least give him the athletic fight with his speed and tenacity.
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  1. KM /Cal? - 1. Zlatan 2. Reus 3. Buchwald 4. Albertini 5. Boban 6. Filipe Luis 7. Griezmann 8. Senna 9. Piszczek 10. Courtois 11. Bonucci
  2. Downcast/KirkDuyt - 1. Neymar 2. Yaya Touré 3. Falcao 4. Di Maria 5. Maicon 6. Özil 7. Heinrich 8. Vieira 9. Stankovic 10. Materrazzi 11. Júlio César da Silva
  3. Gio - 1. Nedved 2. Veron 3. Reuter 4. Deschamps 5. Puyol 6. Bratseth 7. Careca 8. Michel 9. Thon 10. Sergi 11. Chilavert
  4. Enigma_87/Snow - 1. Kaka 2. Villa 3. Lucio 4. Modric 5. Schneider 6. Marcelo 7. Helmer 8. Salgado 9. Conte 10. Vialli 11. van der Sar
  5. Crappycraperson - 1. Totti 2. Savićević 3. Bale 4. Kroos 5. Popescu 6. Jorginho 7. Jeremies 8. Grosso 9. Gamarra 10. Canizares 11. Ivan Cordoba
  6. Joga Bonito/Balu - 1. Bergomi 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Dani Alves 4. Häßler 5. Forlán 6. Ferri 7. Dunga 8. Aimar 9. Crespo 10. Carboni 11. Eike Immel
  7. mazhar13/Boycott - 1. Shevchenko 2. Aldair 3. Donadoni 4. Luis Enrique 5. Cocu 6. Pique 7. Chendo 8. Kahn 9. Serginho 10. Uwe Bein 11. Wynton Rufer
  8. VivaJanuzaj/MJJ - 1. Müller 2. Eto'o 3. Guardiola 4. T. Silva 5. Samuel 6. Abidal 7. Sneijder 8. Khedira 9. Robinho 10. Klos 11. Carvajal
  9. RedTiger - 1. Ballack 2. Zambrotta 3 Ayala 4. Vidal 5. Aguero 6. Paulo Sousa 7. Panucci 8. Francescoli 9. Wörns 10. Butt
  10. Aldo/The Stain - 1. Davids 2. Littbarski 3. Mendieta 4. Montero 5. Makaay 6. Henry 7. Mascherano 8. Angloma 9. Candela 10. Linke
  11. Marty1968 - 1. Seedorf 2. Costacurta 3. Berthold 4. Gattuso 5. Scholl 6. Benarrivo 7.Babbel 8. Butragueño 9. Zamorano 10. Lehmann
  12. Sjor Bepo/anant - 1. Stam 2. Alaba 3. Camoranesi 4. Godin 5. Gündoğan 6. Kluivert 7. Javi Martinez 8. Gascoigne 9. Futre 10. Juanfran
  13. Isotope - 1. Cafu 2. Weah 3. Ze Roberto 4. Mauro Silva 5. Hummels 6. Signori 7. Sanchis 8. van Bommel 9. Illgner 10. Valeron
  14. Skizzo/Pat_Mustard - 1. Hierro 2. Ruggeri 3. Klinsmann 4. Bebeto 5. Möller 6. Chiellini 7. Baraja 8. Ziege 9. Pogba 10. Zenga
  15. Tuppet - 1. R. Carlos 2. Zanetti 3. Völler 4. Ferrara 5. Riquelme 6. B. Laudrup 7. Nadal 8. De Rossi 9. Balakov 10. Zubizarreta
  16. Edgar Allan Pillow - 1. B Lizarazu 2. W Sagnol 3. C Vieri 4. J Boateng 5. D Simeone 6. E Cambiasso 7. Deco 8. F de Boer 9. A Kopke 10. F Inzaghi
Blocked list:
Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Busquets, Romario, Redondo, Xavi, Rijkaard, Ronaldinho, Maradona, Messi, Luis Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Van Basten, Baresi, Maldini, Matthaus, Nesta, Kohler, Van Nistelrooy, Suarez, Zidane, Buffon, Casillas, Neuer, Sammer, M. Laudrup, Gullit, Batistuta, Baggio, Pirlo, Stoichkov, Desailly, Thuram, Brehme, Tassotti, Iniesta, Koeman, Raul, Rui Costa, Del Piero, Figo, Rivaldo, Effenberg, Cannavaro, Makelele.

@RedTiger
 
harms said:
You are going to tell me that he isn't considered a flop by Juve fans? There is a reason that he went to Fulham after that and that Juve bought Buffon for a record fee
He was one of the best in Ajax (and, later, for us) and a flop in Juve, no two ways about it
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Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Tbh his time in Juve was the absolute low of his career imo. From world's best at Ajax to being dumped for Buffon in 2 years is a big drop. From what I gather it was a nervy error prone 2 season where he never impressed. He even made Juve all time worst xi in many sites!
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Let's say he has maybe temporarily lost his qualities there despite a correct Euro 2000.

Not a shame to be replaced by Buffon :wenger:

The same for Yaya Touré who was excellent with Barcelona: the best solution for everyone was to leave as Guardiola anticipated the rising of Busquets.

VivaJanuzaj said:
Well no RB can actually deal properly with Neymar, so we'll take one who can at least give him the athletic fight with his speed and tenacity.
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You should focus your strategy on other managers because I am not the favourite of the competition!
 
Downcast said:
You should focus your strategy on other managers because I am not the favourite of the competition!
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Well Neymar is the guy Carvajal will meet for the first round so I guess he should begin getting prepared as soon as possible :)

As for Yaya, well lets just say I disagree and we'll save it for the match thread :)
 
VivaJanuzaj said:
Well Neymar is the guy Carvajal will meet for the first round so I guess he should begin getting prepared as soon as possible :)

As for Yaya, well lets just say I disagree and we'll save it for the match thread :)
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:confused:

I didn't know that !

My 1st match will be against you?
 
Definitely remember van der Sar getting a lot of stick at Juve. Some Dutchies wanted Westerveld to take over national duties as well iirc.
 
VDS, eh?

Well, you have to say the critics have a point. It's a potential "peak league form" definition problem - perhaps. He had good days and bad ones for Juve, and he wasn't a total fiasco. But he wasn't a roaring success either - far from it.

For me the most interesting, or important, part would be that he displayed tendencies at Juve that are completely at odds with what he's mainly famous for: He was error prone and seemed unsettled/nervous. Anti-VDS compared to the version we all know and love from his United stint.
 
Donaldo said:
Definitely remember van der Sar getting a lot of stick at Juve. Some Dutchies wanted Westerveld to take over national duties as well iirc.
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Yeah, it was a pretty big debate ahead of the Euro 2000 (or during? not 100% sure anymore). I have a lot of respect for Westerveld because he publicly stated that van der Sar should stay in goal, because it's better for the team and because van der Sar is still the better goalkeeper despite his loss of form at club level. Most number 2s would have jumped at the chance and fueled the discussion with more criticism (at least all German number 2 goalkeepers ahead of tournaments would have done it, many in fact did).
 
Downcast said:
Now, I understand your comments on my players :lol:
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:lol: :lol:
Not at all mate! I stand behind it all and I gave stick for, as far as I'm concerned, problematic picks by other managers as well. Just like Engima is getting problems for VDS now although it's not necessarily his opponents, or I did from Snow about wanting to have Khedira the option of Seria A as well
 
harms said:
You are going to tell me that he isn't considered a flop by Juve fans? There is a reason that he went to Fulham after that and that Juve bought Buffon for a record fee
He was one of the best in Ajax (and, later, for us) and a flop in Juve, no two ways about it
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Juventus conceded 47 goals in the 2 seasons he spent there and he played every league game but two. They finished 2nd in both seasons, 1 point behind Lazio and 2 behind Roma on the final day of the season in a controversial game.

Parma were in financial troubles so Buffon was up for grabs.

Because of a couple of games against the Roma teams in his 2nd season his time is remembered as a poor one. Goals like the one he conceded against Lazio in a 1-1 draw are brought up but they also fail to mention how poor his team mates were, for example they were 11 against 10 but still couldn't score and VDS even saved a 1v1 chance against Nedved. It sure is easy to blame the goalkeeper though and forget that he had the best clean sheet record in the league.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Tbh his time in Juve was the absolute low of his career imo. From world's best at Ajax to being dumped for Buffon in 2 years is a big drop. From what I gather it was a nervy error prone 2 season where he never impressed. He even made Juve all time worst xi in many sites!
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Surprising that it was his career low when he was the best in the world on either side. He still managed a better clean sheet record than Buffon even if you pick Buffon's best two seasons.

Could it be that the rest of them gets a pass because of different seasons with the club? For example in his 2nd season Juve failed to score in 7 games. That's more than 1/5th of the games played.

Of the two seasons his first one was better and that is his peak. What keeper in this draft in Serie A is better? Are you going to argue that Lehmann in Germany was a better keeper or Chilavert for Zaragoza? Some of the keepers picked have had horrendous moments in the league that they were picked but I guess it won't be brought up because VDS looks bad compared to the rest of his career which was a level or more above anyone else's bar Khan.
 
Balu said:
Yeah, it was a pretty big debate ahead of the Euro 2000 (or during? not 100% sure anymore). I have a lot of respect for Westerveld because he publicly stated that van der Sar should stay in goal, because it's better for the team and because van der Sar is still the better goalkeeper despite his loss of form at club level. Most number 2s would have jumped at the chance and fueled the discussion with more criticism (at least all German number 2 goalkeepers ahead of tournaments would have done it, many in fact did).
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Just before...I remember a dutch family friend quite opposed to him being in the team.

That said, the Dutch are rarely ever happy with their own.
 
Not even our turn lol. Play music for dramatic effect when Aldo comes on.
 
Magda-Crespo.jpg


  1. KM /Cal? - 1. Zlatan 2. Reus 3. Buchwald 4. Albertini 5. Boban 6. Filipe Luis 7. Griezmann 8. Senna 9. Piszczek 10. Courtois 11. Bonucci
  2. Downcast/KirkDuyt - 1. Neymar 2. Yaya Touré 3. Falcao 4. Di Maria 5. Maicon 6. Özil 7. Heinrich 8. Vieira 9. Stankovic 10. Materrazzi 11. Júlio César da Silva
  3. Gio - 1. Nedved 2. Veron 3. Reuter 4. Deschamps 5. Puyol 6. Bratseth 7. Careca 8. Michel 9. Thon 10. Sergi 11. Chilavert
  4. Enigma_87/Snow - 1. Kaka 2. Villa 3. Lucio 4. Modric 5. Schneider 6. Marcelo 7. Helmer 8. Salgado 9. Conte 10. Vialli 11. van der Sar
  5. Crappycraperson - 1. Totti 2. Savićević 3. Bale 4. Kroos 5. Popescu 6. Jorginho 7. Jeremies 8. Grosso 9. Gamarra 10. Canizares 11. Ivan Cordoba
  6. Joga Bonito/Balu - 1. Bergomi 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Dani Alves 4. Häßler 5. Forlán 6. Ferri 7. Dunga 8. Aimar 9. Crespo 10. Carboni 11. Eike Immel
  7. mazhar13/Boycott - 1. Shevchenko 2. Aldair 3. Donadoni 4. Luis Enrique 5. Cocu 6. Pique 7. Chendo 8. Kahn 9. Serginho 10. Uwe Bein 11. Wynton Rufer
  8. VivaJanuzaj/MJJ - 1. Müller 2. Eto'o 3. Guardiola 4. T. Silva 5. Samuel 6. Abidal 7. Sneijder 8. Khedira 9. Robinho 10. Klos 11. Carvajal
  9. RedTiger - 1. Ballack 2. Zambrotta 3 Ayala 4. Vidal 5. Aguero 6. Paulo Sousa 7. Panucci 8. Francescoli 9. Wörns 10. Butt
  10. Aldo/The Stain - 1. Davids 2. Littbarski 3. Mendieta 4. Montero 5. Makaay 6. Henry 7. Mascherano 8. Angloma 9. Candela 10. Linke
  11. Marty1968 - 1. Seedorf 2. Costacurta 3. Berthold 4. Gattuso 5. Scholl 6. Benarrivo 7.Babbel 8. Butragueño 9. Zamorano 10. Lehmann
  12. Sjor Bepo/anant - 1. Stam 2. Alaba 3. Camoranesi 4. Godin 5. Gündoğan 6. Kluivert 7. Javi Martinez 8. Gascoigne 9. Futre 10. Juanfran
  13. Isotope - 1. Cafu 2. Weah 3. Ze Roberto 4. Mauro Silva 5. Hummels 6. Signori 7. Sanchis 8. van Bommel 9. Illgner 10. Valeron
  14. Skizzo/Pat_Mustard - 1. Hierro 2. Ruggeri 3. Klinsmann 4. Bebeto 5. Möller 6. Chiellini 7. Baraja 8. Ziege 9. Pogba 10. Zenga
  15. Tuppet - 1. R. Carlos 2. Zanetti 3. Völler 4. Ferrara 5. Riquelme 6. B. Laudrup 7. Nadal 8. De Rossi 9. Balakov 10. Zubizarreta
  16. Edgar Allan Pillow - 1. B Lizarazu 2. W Sagnol 3. C Vieri 4. J Boateng 5. D Simeone 6. E Cambiasso 7. Deco 8. F de Boer 9. A Kopke 10. F Inzaghi
Blocked list:
Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Busquets, Romario, Redondo, Xavi, Rijkaard, Ronaldinho, Maradona, Messi, Luis Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Van Basten, Baresi, Maldini, Matthaus, Nesta, Kohler, Van Nistelrooy, Suarez, Zidane, Buffon, Casillas, Neuer, Sammer, M. Laudrup, Gullit, Batistuta, Baggio, Pirlo, Stoichkov, Desailly, Thuram, Brehme, Tassotti, Iniesta, Koeman, Raul, Rui Costa, Del Piero, Figo, Rivaldo, Effenberg, Cannavaro, Makelele.

@RedTiger
 
Snow said:
Surprising that it was his career low when he was the best in the world on either side. He still managed a better clean sheet record than Buffon even if you pick Buffon's best two seasons.

Could it be that the rest of them gets a pass because of different seasons with the club? For example in his 2nd season Juve failed to score in 7 games. That's more than 1/5th of the games played.

Of the two seasons his first one was better and that is his peak. What keeper in this draft in Serie A is better? Are you going to argue that Lehmann in Germany was a better keeper or Chilavert for Zaragoza? Some of the keepers picked have had horrendous moments in the league that they were picked but I guess it won't be brought up because VDS looks bad compared to the rest of his career which was a level or more above anyone else's bar Khan.
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The Italian media dubbed him butter hands and called him van der gol. Juve went to the extent of having his eyes tested. Calmness, confidence, ability to marshall the back line...everything that you'd normally expect in VdS was all missing during his Juve stint. You'd be hard pressed to find any Juve fans who regard him highly. The only think he was known for during his stint there were the keeper errors.
 
Aldo said:
We are waiting for almost no reason. RedTiger already has his keeper so we can pick ours anyway. But guess we have to wait.
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he might be going for two keepers just like he did in the last draft (which was entirely my feck up if I'm honest!!).
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Tbh his time in Juve was the absolute low of his career imo. From world's best at Ajax to being dumped for Buffon in 2 years is a big drop. From what I gather it was a nervy error prone 2 season where he never impressed. He even made Juve all time worst xi in many sites!
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His first season he was up to his 1998 level. Granted his second one he was not that good one but this is league peak form and I'd say his first season is right up there with all the others picked so far.
 
11h pick Mijatovic :lol::lol::lol: probably the best pick of the draft.
 
  1. KM /Cal? - 1. Zlatan 2. Reus 3. Buchwald 4. Albertini 5. Boban 6. Filipe Luis 7. Griezmann 8. Senna 9. Piszczek 10. Courtois 11. Bonucci
  2. Downcast/KirkDuyt - 1. Neymar 2. Yaya Touré 3. Falcao 4. Di Maria 5. Maicon 6. Özil 7. Heinrich 8. Vieira 9. Stankovic 10. Materrazzi 11. Júlio César da Silva
  3. Gio - 1. Nedved 2. Veron 3. Reuter 4. Deschamps 5. Puyol 6. Bratseth 7. Careca 8. Michel 9. Thon 10. Sergi 11. Chilavert
  4. Enigma_87/Snow - 1. Kaka 2. Villa 3. Lucio 4. Modric 5. Schneider 6. Marcelo 7. Helmer 8. Salgado 9. Conte 10. Vialli 11. van der Sar
  5. Crappycraperson - 1. Totti 2. Savićević 3. Bale 4. Kroos 5. Popescu 6. Jorginho 7. Jeremies 8. Grosso 9. Gamarra 10. Canizares 11. Ivan Cordoba
  6. Joga Bonito/Balu - 1. Bergomi 2. Xabi Alonso 3. Dani Alves 4. Häßler 5. Forlán 6. Ferri 7. Dunga 8. Aimar 9. Crespo 10. Carboni 11. Eike Immel
  7. mazhar13/Boycott - 1. Shevchenko 2. Aldair 3. Donadoni 4. Luis Enrique 5. Cocu 6. Pique 7. Chendo 8. Kahn 9. Serginho 10. Uwe Bein 11. Wynton Rufer
  8. VivaJanuzaj/MJJ - 1. Müller 2. Eto'o 3. Guardiola 4. T. Silva 5. Samuel 6. Abidal 7. Sneijder 8. Khedira 9. Robinho 10. Klos 11. Carvajal
  9. RedTiger - 1. Ballack 2. Zambrotta 3 Ayala 4. Vidal 5. Aguero 6. Paulo Sousa 7. Panucci 8. Francescoli 9. Wörns 10. Butt 11. Mijatovic
  10. Aldo/The Stain - 1. Davids 2. Littbarski 3. Mendieta 4. Montero 5. Makaay 6. Henry 7. Mascherano 8. Angloma 9. Candela 10. Linke
  11. Marty1968 - 1. Seedorf 2. Costacurta 3. Berthold 4. Gattuso 5. Scholl 6. Benarrivo 7.Babbel 8. Butragueño 9. Zamorano 10. Lehmann
  12. Sjor Bepo/anant - 1. Stam 2. Alaba 3. Camoranesi 4. Godin 5. Gündoğan 6. Kluivert 7. Javi Martinez 8. Gascoigne 9. Futre 10. Juanfran
  13. Isotope - 1. Cafu 2. Weah 3. Ze Roberto 4. Mauro Silva 5. Hummels 6. Signori 7. Sanchis 8. van Bommel 9. Illgner 10. Valeron
  14. Skizzo/Pat_Mustard - 1. Hierro 2. Ruggeri 3. Klinsmann 4. Bebeto 5. Möller 6. Chiellini 7. Baraja 8. Ziege 9. Pogba 10. Zenga
  15. Tuppet - 1. R. Carlos 2. Zanetti 3. Völler 4. Ferrara 5. Riquelme 6. B. Laudrup 7. Nadal 8. De Rossi 9. Balakov 10. Zubizarreta
  16. Edgar Allan Pillow - 1. B Lizarazu 2. W Sagnol 3. C Vieri 4. J Boateng 5. D Simeone 6. E Cambiasso 7. Deco 8. F de Boer 9. A Kopke 10. F Inzaghi
Blocked list:
Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Busquets, Romario, Redondo, Xavi, Rijkaard, Ronaldinho, Maradona, Messi, Luis Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Van Basten, Baresi, Maldini, Matthaus, Nesta, Kohler, Van Nistelrooy, Suarez, Zidane, Buffon, Casillas, Neuer, Sammer, M. Laudrup, Gullit, Batistuta, Baggio, Pirlo, Stoichkov, Desailly, Thuram, Brehme, Tassotti, Iniesta, Koeman, Raul, Rui Costa, Del Piero, Figo, Rivaldo, Effenberg, Cannavaro, Makelele.

@Aldo @The Stain
 
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