The last time real defended that badly was against us in the first game of the season
La Liga 2016/17
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Yeah, almost as if they gave up after 0-1. This was Sevilla's first win at Anoeta since 2011.
They are lucky that Sporting, Granada and Osasuna look like teams of segunda, and hopefully Depor will stay. I feel a bit sorry for Valencia.Not the favorite team in Coruña but la liga would be great if they could fight for europe or Champions as in the past.
I think that Valverde would be great for them, but I wonder if Messi´s renewal and his wish of a very competitive team can influence the board to bring Sampaoli.Wow, never saw this coming. One of the most enjoyable 3 pointers of the season
@carvajal Rumours of Valverde going to Barcelona, but also Sampaoli is a name thrown in for possible takeover after Enrique. Think Sampaoli would fit them well, unfortunately, especially since he is working with Lillo. It will suck to see him leave, but it is like any other silly season.
Not a big fan of Eusebio, who seems to be a candidate too.
For Sevilla I think that Marcelo Gallardo (River) could be a good option
Right how exactly? Maybe you should actually compare the overall standings and results between the two leagues right now before claiming it's a farcical runaway league.
Yeah, and you don't find ironic that you're also claiming the superiority of the EPL around the world based in sport, excitement or franchise concepts, when in the US scenario the Liga MX case makes a point that it might have to be more with the cultural heritage of the US inhabitants than the rest of the factors?
How many people with ties to England live there, making it easier for them to root for Boro than Malaga?. This thing changes when you look at the other part of that continent, Spanish heritage has a greater bond so they prefer La Liga. China is influencied more from the UK culture than Spain the spanish, also the schedule of the EPL made it easier for them to watch it, something that La Liga noticed and corrected by changing to a model like the EPL one.
From a football point, in the competitions where both English and Spanish teams meet right now La Liga has the lead so, that's the best argument we can get to give this topic a fair assessment. If we're talking about market product then we've stopped talking about football. That's finances, culture and a whole other areas.
The sad thing about this debate is that even normal folks like you or me find some form of pride in having the "best league" so in order to turn ours into the best we're selling out and will end up losing them until it turns into a bunch of wealthy Chinese/Arab/Whatever guys or companies treating our teams and competition like assets and not a part of our culture. I already lost the privilege of seeing quality football without having to pay for it and also lost our "Spanish Sunday" where a lot of teams would play a 17:00 and we could tune/hear a bunch of games at the same time. Surely the PL has sacrificed something that was "almost cultural" in the isles just to make more money from people in Chongqing that won't give a damn about anything else that could happen in Manchester or Liverpool.
Sorry but I don't get this "ours vs yours" mentality when in the end we're basically giving away what's rightfully ours in order to help rich people get richer thanks to us.
The former player that was in Monaco ? So he became a manager after his career? Cool!
I miss that a lot. The program (I listen tiempo de juego and before Carrusel) is still very entertaining but it´s not the same
And, in other order of thigs, the Valencia situation is catastrophical. Suso Pitarch was allegedly in Italy ending the loan/transfer details of Zaza and was in talks with Evra, Hernanes and Obi Mikel, he was making advances in some of those operations and the sports management were giving advances on those to the press.
Now, Suso leaves and the board says to not take the sports management info into consideration, basically it looks like a civil war
Now, Suso leaves and the board says to not take the sports management info into consideration, basically it looks like a civil war
Sampaoli can't and won't leave this summer. The board won't allow it and he is at the very beginning of building a competitive team.
For most of us it was the best way to keep up with the rest of the teams, you get a couple of games at the same time and you can choose who to watch, now you can get a 90 minute borefest without other options.
If Tebas was smart turning to this type of PL schedule should be followed with other actions to empower local teams and make their games more appealing to watch and grow their fanbase, replicating half of that model won't work in the long term because they're basically asking us to pay full price for a whole competition where they only care about 3 teams. If it comes to the point that I have to pay the same to watch RM/Barcelona and Atletico in good conditions and the rest are left out or getting a PL package I would end up choosing the last one
So he resigned with a text message... and the few juve-rejects he was signing are now deals going down the drain. Only in Valencia. Is it enough to push them down to segunda though? Osasuna and Granada are too poor to stay on, but surely Valencia can't slip down as the third team, no matter how bad things get..
You think the board might be willing to make the sacrifices needed to put the club on the next level?.
I could understand them being happy with EL and good cup/league runs when Barcelona and Real seemed untouchable, the success Atletico had this last years could give Sevilla the confidence to think that it's possible for them to be up there too
But if a club (barca) pays his clause...Nothing that can be done. However, it is not that likely, I agree with that.
I'd rather go back to Saturday night's televised game, a random game on Sunday morning (Rayo did it for a while some years ago), 6 or 7 games on Sunday at 17:00 and one in canal plus at 21:00.
Anyway I am too linked to la liga to worry about marketing stuff and what is more entertaining for the neutrals.
I don´t know if copying what others are doing is going to help us. I begin to be tired of what they think in China.
English is the most widely spoken language and Anglo-Saxon influence in the world will not change in some regions as much as much as Tebas pulls down his pants.
In my opinion what we lack are wealthy owners with good intentions, who have some connections with the latin culture.
My opinion did cause quite the stir but at the same time, @Sarni and a few others pointed out that over the last 20 years both La Liga and the Premier League have had five different winners which surprised me I must say.
I still think the league is a bore though. You just know either Real or Barca will win the league, year in, year out.
And we don't seem to have any fans of other Spanish clubs here. I would be interested to hear from a Villarreal or Malaga supporter and their thoughts on the unfair advantage the big two have every season.
Growing up I watched Real live a few times when they had the likes of Laudrup. It was magical.
Now, in my adulthood, I am sick of the sight of both Barcelona and Real Madrid.
I met a Spanish guy on holiday last year who told me that most fans in Spain support their local side and then either Barca or Real Madrid - reason being is that they know their team, even if it's the likes of Valencia; have no chance of staying dominant in Spain because of how crooked the system is and the handouts Real Madrid receive.
So again, my opinion of La Liga is that it's farcical and almost corrupt. The powers that be are terrified of Real Madrid and Barcelona being the second and third best over a lengthy period of time.
When was the last time Real Madrid or Barcelona missed out on CL qualification?
We have giant clubs like Liverpool and ourselves missing out on it regularly because other English clubs achieve their dreams.
This is why I love our league so much and feel that the likes of La Liga need to massively improve.
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To be fair the only reason United have missed out on Champions League is that we have been run terribly between 2013 and 2016. Back when Barcelona were run like that circa 2003 they also missed out and were playing UEFA Cup football, Real Madrid had a few seasons where they couldn't compete as well.
Atletico are a true contender as well. There is very little chance of anyone doing a Leicester but let's be honest, it probably won't happen in England for the next 20 years either and was an one off caused by pretty much all top teams going to shite in the same season. PL can be won by Chelsea, Arsenal, City or United with Liverpool and Spurs having an outside chance. If any of the top 6 get their shit together and get together a genuinely good team that is anywhere near the quality of Spanish big 2, there won't be a race either. There was hardly any 6-horse race when Fergie was here, we had 1 or maximum 2 teams that could keep up with the pace.
Also, back in 2005-2009 when English teams were constantly doing well in Europe and making it to the finals in 5 consecutive years, nobody suggested that the league was a bore because it was either won by a runaway winner (2004, 2005, 2006) or a two-horse race (2007, 2008). It was widely regarded as the strongest league in the world with 4 of its teams having proper chance of conquering Europe. At the same time La Liga had all of Valencia, Sevilla and Villarreal pushing a very badly run and not very good Barca and Real who did not do very well in Europe (aside from Barca 2006).
Now it's reverse, English teams do nothing of note in Europe but the league is pretty even, and suddenly Europe is meaningless and competitiveness in domestic competition is the measure.
Atletico are a true contender as well. There is very little chance of anyone doing a Leicester but let's be honest, it probably won't happen in England for the next 20 years either and was an one off caused by pretty much all top teams going to shite in the same season. PL can be won by Chelsea, Arsenal, City or United with Liverpool and Spurs having an outside chance. If any of the top 6 get their shit together and get together a genuinely good team that is anywhere near the quality of Spanish big 2, there won't be a race either. There was hardly any 6-horse race when Fergie was here, we had 1 or maximum 2 teams that could keep up with the pace.
Also, back in 2005-2009 when English teams were constantly doing well in Europe and making it to the finals in 5 consecutive years, nobody suggested that the league was a bore because it was either won by a runaway winner (2004, 2005, 2006) or a two-horse race (2007, 2008). It was widely regarded as the strongest league in the world with 4 of its teams having proper chance of conquering Europe. At the same time La Liga had all of Valencia, Sevilla and Villarreal pushing a very badly run and not very good Barca and Real who did not do very well in Europe (aside from Barca 2006).
Now it's reverse, English teams do nothing of note in Europe but the league is pretty even, and suddenly Europe is meaningless and competitiveness in domestic competition is the measure.
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You are right, the leagues are different and the fans too. Madrid has the support of 38% in the country, and Barcelona is also a very important club with 25%. The league has always been developed in that mode. Here it would be very rare for a Sevillian to be a fan of Valencia, or a Basque being fan of Madrid.
Maybe in the UK that changes and that is why you see more normal the distribution of television rights, but for me, at least, although I also like Deportivo, I find it strange to win the same on television than Madrid or Barcelona. I get the feeling that the competition becomes the NBA.
Valencia won the league and Deportivo too not so long ago, and Madrid and Barça were still there.
I think a fan of Villarreal, Málaga or Espanyol can be upset for the tvmoney but surely they would tell you that they want an Abramovic or a sheik who spends 150 million every summer. In any case I would invite you to see the league, not only the big teams, there are very interesting matches
Real Madrid missed UCL in the 96/97 after finishing 6th the season before, they "missed" (5th) a UCL spot in the league in 99/00 but got in the competition anyway because they won it, leaving Zaragoza (4th) out
Barcelona has only missed once, the 02/03 season, when LVG left the club 3 points above relegation in January and Antic made a comeback that got us up to the 6th, keeping our record of only club that has never missed to qualify for any European competition
But this facts are matched by United and Arsenal's form in the last ~15 years too, only exception is that United failed to qualify last year, not 13 ago, and Arsenal are consistent but can't win titltes to save their life
On the other hand, if you talk about giants like Liverpool, we can bring up Atletico to the debate, they not only failed to qualify for UCL until some years ago, they even got relegated being the 3rd most important team, despite that they have managed to bounce back and have won the league after their relegation and got to two of the last 3 UCL finals, we can bring Valencia, another team that appeared in 2 UCL finals, won league titles not so long ago and have been in a way worse position than Liverpool the last 5 years.
I can buy the imbalance in the league, but until a certain point, beyond that the difference between PL and La Liga is our worst political problem too, corruption. Half the club owners were corrupt and drove their teams into bankruptcy. Valencia, Deportivo, Sevilla, Betis, Atletico and Zaragoza for example have or at leat had the backing of a lot of people, enough to put them in a position similiar to what Arsenal have been doing (be in the fight, but never winning it against the bigger clubs), and Oviedo, Gijon, Malaga , Vigo or San Sebastian also had corrupt owners that almost destroyed those clubs. Right there you have the problem.
We are talking of clubs in the top 10 cities of the country, in a way we could compare London area (estimated 9M people in 2001) to both Barcelona and Madrid, we take out equivalent teams there, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham from the EPL, Barcelona, Real and Atletico for La Liga.
Now, you still have Manchester area (2.5M) that feeds both teams from Manchester (even tho we all know City are a top team for another reason) and let's say Wigan, if we look at the Spanish counterpart we already have a problem, the equivalent would be Valencia (2.3M) and that means club corruption. Valencia were a force to be reckoned with until they basically rob the club, then you have Levante, a club that just tries to avoid relegation when they make it to the first division, and even they had debt problems that put them against the ropes.
Time to compare the third tier in population, West Midlands (2.4M) appears with Villa, WBA, Wolverhampton, Coventry and Birmingham in that area and we take a huge leap to the Spanish counterpart that would be the area around Sevilla (1.3M), here we basically have two teams (Sevilla and Betis) that faced extinction in the last 15 years, Sevilla are doing good now but Betis are still suffering the hungover of all that with debt eating them, yet another two teams that were kept from "top level" thanks to corruption in the club, NOT in La Liga.
I can buy the imbalance in the league, but until a certain point, beyond that the difference between PL and La Liga is our worst political problem too, corruption. Half the club owners were corrupt and drove their teams into bankruptcy. Valencia, Deportivo, Sevilla, Betis, Atletico and Zaragoza for example have or at leat had the backing of a lot of people, enough to put them in a position similiar to what Arsenal have been doing (be in the fight, but never winning it against the bigger clubs), and Oviedo, Gijon, Malaga , Vigo or San Sebastian also had corrupt owners that almost destroyed those clubs. Right there you have the problem.
We are talking of clubs in the top 10 cities of the country, in a way we could compare London area (estimated 9M people in 2001) to both Barcelona and Madrid, we take out equivalent teams there, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham from the EPL, Barcelona, Real and Atletico for La Liga.
Now, you still have Manchester area (2.5M) that feeds both teams from Manchester (even tho we all know City are a top team for another reason) and let's say Wigan, if we look at the Spanish counterpart we already have a problem, the equivalent would be Valencia (2.3M) and that means club corruption. Valencia were a force to be reckoned with until they basically rob the club, then you have Levante, a club that just tries to avoid relegation when they make it to the first division, and even they had debt problems that put them against the ropes.
Time to compare the third tier in population, West Midlands (2.4M) appears with Villa, WBA, Wolverhampton, Coventry and Birmingham in that area and we take a huge leap to the Spanish counterpart that would be the area around Sevilla (1.3M), here we basically have two teams (Sevilla and Betis) that faced extinction in the last 15 years, Sevilla are doing good now but Betis are still suffering the hungover of all that with debt eating them, yet another two teams that were kept from "top level" thanks to corruption in the club, NOT in La Liga.
To round this all for you, you see La Liga (the company) as a dark hole of corruption that indulges anything Real or Barcelona do, but the problem stems from a political thing that happened in 1990, the sports law.
Now I'm not a financial/economical guru but I'll try to explain this to you so we can be if not in the same page, at least in adjacent ones. In 1990 every sport club that was part of a professional league had to adhere to this law that forced them into a kind of corporation, the reason for this was that there was a concern about sport clubs generating debt and "someone" had to do something about that so they came up with this plan that basically turned the clubs into corporations that could be bought by shares and in case the club debts were unaffordable the capital from the shares would cover some kind of compensation and the "owners" could be prosecuted. This lined up with the spanish boom of tv rights for football clubs so those clubs were predated by businessman that bought them and waited for the tv contracts to kick in, made money from that and left the club to rot or basically played championship manager until they got out of cash. Some of them were judged, others didn't because, well... this is Spain and those people were powerful and had friends
BUT, there was one exception in that law, sport clubs that were operating in professional leagues and didn't incur in debts for the last 4 years were allowed to continue as they were, this means a "sport club" that can't be bought by shares, is owned by partners (yeah, the fans) and that have to elect their president/board to represent club interests. Four teams were eligible for that and they kept that status, said teams (that wouldn't be able to be robbed like all the other Spanish clubs did) were Real Madrid, Barcelona, Athletic de Bilbao and Osasuna.
So, tl;dw. You've been fed a lie by a lot of people, the lie is that Real Madrid and Barcelona are this huge monsters that do as they please and have Spanish and European sports grabbed by the balls, this lie started being told as a scapegoat for Jesus Gil (Atletico), Lopera (Betis), Del Nido (Sevilla), Lendoiro (Deportivo), Soler (Valencia) or other thiefs and all their "media entourage" and it worked wonders to convince fans of those clubs and many others that the big 2 in Spain are the spawn of the demon and the ones behind clubs going into bankruptcy and facing extinction. When the truth is that those guys did that on purpose, robbed people of their clubs looking them in the eyes and the laughed at their face. But up until this day blaming Real Madrid and Barcelona stands for a better excuse than "we fecked up, got robbed and were too dumb to notice because we thought Denilson was worth more than Ronaldo, viva el Betis" for example
good post
If it doesn't bother you, how old are you? Because I'm 30 and I remember when a was a kid being told that it was a shame that I wasn't fan of the local team (Deportivo) instead of a Catalan team that I had nothing in common.
It was even worse in the "Superdepor" era when I was mocked or called out a bandwagoner to the point that I stopped playing football in the street with my Barça shirt so they would leave me alone. I even got presents from some family members that were basically Deportivo's merchandise to win me over
That happened to several of my friends, who lived their madridismo or barcelonismo in silenceIf it doesn't bother you, how old are you? Because I'm 30 and I remember when a was a kid being told that it was a shame that I wasn't fan of the local team (Deportivo) instead of a Catalan team that I had nothing in common.
It was even worse in the "Superdepor" era when I was mocked or called out a bandwagoner to the point that I stopped playing football in the street with my Barça shirt so they would leave me alone. I even got presents from some family members that were basically Deportivo's merchandise to win me over
.I started following Depor because I used to go in the summer, although I studied and lived in Lugo(very madridista) until I was 18 (I am 34).
I was 10 when Bebeto and Mauro arrived, when I started to like football, buy football cards, play "pc futbol",etc but on the other hand in Lugo all the debate was about Madrid and Barça and my father is very madridista, and all his family is from Valladolid, so you can imagine what team they support.
I remember having a bittersweet feeling when Deportivo smashed Madrid in Riazor.
you were from Ferrol right? I guess that a city very madridista/deportivista, Sure that wasn´t easy
Not true. Here are the percentages of the most spoken languages on the earth. It's in German, but i am pretty sure you'll be able to read it nevertheless:
Mandarin 12,44%, Spanisch 4,85%, Englisch 4,83%, Arabisch 3,25%, Hindi 2,68%, Bengali 2,66%, Portugiesisch 2,62%, Russisch 2,12%, Japanisch 1,8%, Deutsch 1,33%, Javanisch 1,25%; source: http://www.laenderdaten.de/bevoelkerung/sprachen.aspx
Guess you'll have to find another reason for the TV distribution
I understand people claiming this, because the league as a whole is way stronger then during the late 2000's, where it was called the strongest league in the world by most people. Pretty much every PL team nowadays has a European top striker, players like Payet, Mahrez, Wilshere and co in a lower half team would have been unthinkable 10 years ago - when developed by the teams themselves they were gone after the first season. I loved the PL 15 years ago, but the likes of Bolton, Blackburn and co had nowhere near the quality of todays "strugglers".
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Bolton had Okocha, Anelka and a few others. You had a player like Roque Santa Cruz at Blackburn, a lot of big names at Portsmouth too. Most importantly though, the quality of domestic talent seemed better and when clubs were bringing players from Europe, these transfers were often very well considered and not random punting for every big name that is not wanted by good teams in Spain or Italy. The main difference is that transfer fees are much higher these days plus the fact that people drool over players like Shaqiri or Bojan being brought into the league, labelling it unthinkable that they would ever played in mid-table teams elsewhere when fact is that very often these are largely players who had been turned down by half decent clubs elsewhere.
I don't think mid-table has improved as much as people suggest and lack of success in Europa League sort of proves that. You had Middlesbrough and Fulham in the finals back then, now the only recent success was from Chelsea who were there only because they got knocked out of CL and are a big English club, and Liverpool, not mid-table sides. In fact what West Ham and Southampton have done in EL recently was pretty embarrassing.
The reason why top is closer to the middle now is that top teams in England are genuinely not that good now. Put Bayern, Barca or Madrid there, and they aren't that far from the level of United 07-10 or Chelsea 05-08, and there would be no competition again.
Somewhere between 800million and 1.8billion people speak english....Thats more than 4,x%
Well believe @Ishdalar explained the subject very well. Note that I am a Sevilla supporter, and I agree that Barca or Real shouldn't apologise for their wealth and power in spanish football, since it is something both clubs built up, and other clubs screwed themselves when they started with same opportunities. I think the example of Valencia is quite perfect. Valencia was the third title contender and one of big 3, until they were hit by the financial crisis at the same time they bought a new arena. Suddenly they had rights of two arena's and no economy to cover it, which made them sell their stars every year, losing their structure and today we see the result.
Del Nido, Lopera, Gil, they were all corrupt, money laundring, having fishy business in Marbella, the "tv-rights is unfair" was just a cover, or a way to point spotlight elsewhere, than their own screw up.
Real Madrid ended up at fifth spot, with lousy economy (before Perez, under Sanz), in the beginning of 21st century - yet they won the champions league. Barcelona missed a spot sometime during the second Louis Van Gaal era.
You don't have to worry about La Liga improving. The league has dominated the entire 21st century on european level (CL and EL), and is the only league in 21st century that have had 4 different finalists in CL, and most different representatives in quarter finals in CL, and the dominance in CL and EL includes teams like Sevilla, Atletico, Athletic, Malaga, Real Sociedad, Valencia, Villarreal... The successes of these clubs are not tied to money in first hand. It is in education, structure, and tradition.
There are over 15400 certified professional managers in Spain, which indicates why Spain has lately dominated the teenage youth tournaments and also why teams like Villarreal, Sevilla or Atletico keep reinventing themselves. To put this on perspective:
Germany got the second most certified managers in Europe, with little bit under 7000 (not even half of amount from Spain).
My precious Sweden got 999 professional managers.
England got little bit under 1400 - which strongly indicates why the likes of Pardiola and Sam Allardici keep being recycled in the bottom teams.
I hope you realise that praising a certain league (as I am praising La Liga now) is not the same as hating on other leagues. To like one league doesn't exclude one to follow other leagues. We are all writing in an PL team's forum, so obviously we don't discriminate, and follow all kinds of football. But the talk about spanish league need to improve [etc...], has no substantial fact relying on it other than "All I see is that only 2 teams are winning"-type of reasoning. Especially since La Liga is the most succesful league in 21st century (yes, apperances in the quarter finals, semi finals, and finals, and amount of titles and so forth). So it all rather comes down to each one's personal opinion. You are completely entitled to your opinion, but it is comments like "how many different winners have La Liga had past 20 years" that unfortunately brings down the 'arguments' you present afterwards, because you evidently tried to present your dislike of a league for a reason that was not true in the first place.
For some people La Liga is more entertaining than any other leagues, for some people in Sweden the Allsvenskan is the most entertaining one, and other leagues need to improve in terms of entertaintment compared to it. We get it, La Liga is not entertaining for you. But it is a bit steep to call it farcical when best team in Europe is beating one of the worst team's in the league with 5-0, as if it sometimes doesn't happen in any other league.
You misunderstood the chart. It doesn't say how big the percentage of people speaking the language compared to all people on earth is. It says how much people are speaking the language compared to all other languages. All languages together are 100% - not the 7,something billion people.
Villarreal away is a horrible fixture. I'm not confident at all.
Boom. Top marks, my man.
Pffft, he forgot that United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool have all been in Champions League finals in the 21st century. Only a 9/10 post.
That is true, I stand corrected. I forgot that Arsenal was once in a final, after they beated Villarreal in the semis (the downfall of Riquelme's Villarreal career).
@Vato Thanks buddy
Pfft. Still 12-8 spain. Game on
Just like God!
Even ignoring the penalty miss Villareal were really unlucky not to at least take it to extra time. Arsenal had an incredible defensive record in the Champions League that season, iirc. Could well have won the final too if it wasn't for the early red card.That is true, I stand corrected. I forgot that Arsenal was once in a final, after they beated Villarreal in the semis (the downfall of Riquelme's Villarreal career).
@Vato Thanks buddy
Although I was really happy for Henrik Larsson's sake, I did hope Arsenal would win. That is true though, Arsenal kept clean sheet for the longest time during the play off's, and their defense did work well, but Lehmann was also a monster back in those days; came off as an arrogant douchebag (a typical aura for any great german keeper of back in the days), but you'd love to have keeper like that in your team. Shame he was sent off.
No, the red card was the only reason that game was competitive. Remember, it was either red card, or 1-0 barcelona after 10 minutes
Given your current poor form, you have a lot to worry about.
LOL what? Barcelona will win and easily at that ffs
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