He's been close to shit though. Not as good as he was 2 seasons ago.
La Liga - 2012/2013
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
It's over and yes, you can say it even in December. Barcelona have dropped only 2 points in the league, to a team no other than Real Madrid. I'm not sure they are going to drop 13 more points until the end of season and Real would have to win every single game to catch them if they do.
It's pretty much over although adexkola is technically correct as it is not mathematically possible to win the league by December.
To anyone who doesn't overly hate Barcelona, La Liga is done.
To anyone who doesn't overly hate Barcelona, La Liga is done.
Pedro's actually on a terrible run of form, hasn't scored in over 15 games I believe. He's still doing all the same stuff as before but he's lost that clinical touch in front of goal. Makes THM's proclamation of him being one of the best players in the world look all the more absurd now.
Adriano's a 28 year old utility player. Done well for them though.
I don't hate Barcelona, and I don't think La Liga is done. What if Messi gets injured for example??
Its not done yet obviously but it will take an all mighty collapse from Barca and a complete turn in form for Real. Athletico are not good enough yet as seen in their games vs Real and Barca.
Inter's first leg at home wasn't about parking the bus, Mourinho played surprisingly attacking with Inter at home and Inter fully deserved to take the lead. The game changed in the second half when Mourinho tried to hold onto the lead, but Inter played beautiful football in that game.
Seems like most people judge the whole tie only on the second game. Inter's progress against Barca in 2010 wasn't comparable to Chelsea's last year, imo. Totally different approach.
Barcelona had the majority possession in the match, Inter picked them off on the counter, but yes, their approach differed from Chelsea's approach. Both worked, mind.
I disagree, they are clearly the 3rd best team in La liga and gave Barca a real scare yesterday. They have played three of the four toughest away games in the league already.
Their home form is hands down the best in the league and they are good enough to get something against the big two at home. I wouldn't write them off at all coming second, it's an outside chance, but it's not unrealistic at all.
Their home form is hands down the best in the league and they are good enough to get something against the big two at home. I wouldn't write them off at all coming second, it's an outside chance, but it's not unrealistic at all.
Without a doubt third best team in La Liga but they didnt give Barca a scare at all, first 20-30min ya sure they closed down fast, worked really hard and looked dangerous on the break but at the end of the first half and especially the 2nd half Barca completely dominated them even with Messi having an off night (i know he got 2 but he generally played poor).
Real spanked them two weeks ago aswell, they are a well organized outfit with very good players including one off the best strikers in the world but the gap between Athletico and Real is big, the gap between Athletico and Barca is huge
The first game was affected by the fact that the Barcelona squad had to take the bus in a two day trip to Italy prior to the game because of the Volcano ashes at the time..
Both Inter and Chelsea deserved their wins, they were both a better team than Barcelona on the day and to deny that is logically impossible (unless Chelsea or Inter had help from the referee or outside influences). No team in La Liga seems to be able to recreate this though.
wut? There are loads of games where a team is better but loses, that's football. We were shite against Liverpool earlier this season but fluked the win.
I don't think even Inter or Chelsea can recreate it to be honest.
Atletico yesterday played better than Chelsea against Barcelona.
Im sorry but Chelsea no way were the better team, i cant really believe that you believe that? now your going to say the better team over two legs.. no chance, totally out classed and the result was a freak and shows any team can beat any team on any given day.
hehe 
Me and Fergus son ( then in the newbies) discussed something like this and I ended up having to go to an English language forum to find out what was the actuality. I did this because at the time there was lots of discussion about Chelsea being undeserved winners and I wanted to find out if it was actually possible to win the competition undeservedly. The answer was it is not possible to be undeserved winners unless the win came about via cheating, referee error or outside force ( such as a beach ball)
If a team wins without outside influence from outside, chetaing or referee error it is actually impossible to say that they were a worse team. I know it is hard to understand given Barcas dominance at times but to break it down a bit.
If Barca have 15 chances but miss them all, does it mean that they are unlucky or profligate?
If they miss a penalty does that mean they are unlucky or that they didn't take a good penalty?
If Chelsea score from 1 or out two chances does that mean they are very lucky, or take their chances?
People also cite Liverpools 3-3 win in instanbul as being a similar thing but again you have to break it down more.
Ac Milan scored 3 and looked imperious before half.
They then conceeded 3, that means their defence cannot have been great.
Dudek makes an amazing double save in extra time, but rather than being just luck does it not mean the goalkeeper made a good save?
Games are won on goals, not possesion, chances and misses. Since Chelsea won 1-0 without referee intervention, outside influence or cheating/bribary it is actually impossible to say that Barca were the better team in that one game, no matter how much they battered us or how many misses they made.
It may be hard to comprehend, but when you think about it carefully it does actually make sense.
Its more about whether you take deservedly and better team literally or just from the collection of players and playing style.
Barcelona are obviously the better team overall, but in that one game they were not. Same goes for the Inter game and the Ac Milan/Liverpool game.
' the better team lost' is a term branded about after a bad result, but unless it comes from one of those 3 things it is an oxymoron.
By the way i'm not just a tinted spec Chelsea fan, I put a lot of effort into researching this a while ago
, I had too much time on my hands then!No they didn't, because they conceded 4 and scored 1 , we scored 1 and conceded none.
They played more attacking football, but they were not a better team, nor did they play better.
I think it needs to be realized we are talking about on one particular day not in general. When Atletico played us they trounced us, they were by far the better team that day.
The better team cannot lose unless down to refereeing error, outside influence or cheating, because if they lose they are automatically not the better team at that given game regardless of how battered they get or chances are missed by the losing team.
Pff. Atli Eðvaldsson once scored 5 goals in a Bundesliga match and the next day he was back in Iceland scoring for the national team. That was back in like '83.
A bus trip from Spain to Italy is not worse than having to fly for 5-6 hours.
Good points and i see where your coming from but i think a team who plays better and deserves to win can still lose, due to, well to put it simple luck which does impact games. In saying that im a firm believer of you create your own luck hmmmm is this a paradox??
George Best could also drink, smoke and be the best player on the field at his time, doesn't mean that Ronaldinho can do it too in 2007.
Even teams who have midweek games are affected by it, it doesn't make sense to say that a 2-day bus trip right before a very competitive game wouldn't affect your performance.
Depends on how you view it. You can't really take the crown as the better team if you suck in front of goal. Ultimately the game is about scoring more goals than the opponent. How you do it is what makes the game so varied. No two teams do it exactly the same way.
I wouldn't say Chelsea were the better team. The game was a draw. A penalty shoot-out is anybodies game. But I wouldn't call the win undeserved unless, like the Essex man mentioned, you go through because of a very poor decision (Porto 2003).
The Barca game wasn't on Pens though that was the Bayern one, Pens is harder to judge but even if you win on penalties it still counts as the better team. Even when Terry slipped and United won the CL they deserved it, if we had been the better team he would have scored, although some may call the slip down to external influence, but I wouldn't i;d say it came from not being sure footed enough when taking the penalty.
IMO, this is made up non-sense designed just to say that Chelsea deserved to win in 2012 and didn't deserve to lose in 2009.
The referee is also part of the game. If you can get away with something that the referee didn't see then it means that you were better on the day in hiding your mistakes, which eventually means you were better on the day. Non-sense..
You can play worse and win, because luck is part of the game, whether you wanna admit it or not.
This sums it up, i think to believe the better team always wins is unrealistic and a tad naive
Football is ultimately about putting the ball in the back of the net. All else matters little.
Thats true, but bring nothing to this debate....
I don't know the stats for possession, but Inter scored twice with beautiful attacks from open play, if I remember correctly. They didn't just pick them off on the counter. Of course it wasn't "all gung ho" but it was far away from 10 men in their own box. Comparing Inter's games vs Barca in 2010 to Chelsea's 2012 never seemed fair to me.
Seriously? Those unbearable 1000km. Come on. I thought that excuse was laughable back then, but 2 years later people are still crying about it? Pep made a huge mistake in playing Ibrahimovic, it was mainly a tactical mistake. That's about it. Barca were the better team in the final 15minutes of the game, they didn't loose because they were tired or something like that.
Come on, I didn't talk about who deserved the win, I actually don't care, because I really don't like anyone out of Barca, Inter or Chelsea.
But in general:
To deserve something usually means you have to earn it. Winning a million in the lottery doesn't mean you deserve the money, you're just lucky. Nothing wrong with being lucky.
When Barca has enough goal scoring opportunities to win the game, 19 out of 20 times they do win. But you play them on that particular day, when they are stupid enough to miss all those, you were lucky, you didn't deserve it though. Again, nothing wrong with being lucky. Just live with it, shouldn't be very hard to accept it, because after all, you should be the one celebrating while the others are crying. Somehow you're doing it the other way round, very strange.
Its actually the truth. I put a lot of effort into researching it, and you misunderstood the part about the referee.
You cannot be the worse team and win, unless its down a referee mistake,outside influence or cheating. Think about it for a second it doesnt make any logical sense.
If Barca had been the better team they would have scored with the chances they missed. Missing a chance is not just unlucky, its also a mistake, which equal minus points for that team. If they dominate passing that doesn't equal plus points because the game is not won by passing, winning penalties or by creating chances.
If Chelsea score with their first chance that equals a 100% conversion rate, which is plus points. If Chelsea make a last ditch tackle to save a certain goal that is plus points for Chelsea and minus for Barca.
I do know why people make this mistake though because on another day Barca could have won 4-0. But, they didnt, they lost 1-0 therefore Chelsea were the better team on that occasion. Believe me this is not something I have wrote or spouted up quickly to defend them, I spent ages working it all out, Fergus will tell you!
I think we are still misunderstanding the point.
The better team always wins when the game is not decided by a refereeing error, cheating or outside influence.
Maybe I am being too literal for this discussion I do understand why people think otherwise because its not that easy to get your head around it when Barca had so much more possession and more chances. However its an oxymoron as in a statement which contradicts itself. If you are the better team on the day then you must win(repeating myself about the outside influences thing), or you can not be inheritly adjudged to be the better team.
I sound like Mr Logic from Viz now
I repeat, its logically impossible for us to have won it and not deserved it ( since we didnt win it on the terms of a ref error, outside influence or by cheating) I got this answer from a reputable english language forum, its not my opinion its an actual fact.
Some people can understand what I am saying right?
I dug up my old post from that forum, heres the link so you can read the answer.
http://www.english-online.org.uk/as...&t=14136&sid=6934b9229bc7fc47ae89941ab6269d1f
This is the paragraph I direct you too.
'If the players are being compared with other teams in this year's competition, then it is logically impossible that they can be inferior and still win without some form of cheating or official bias. And if they win without cheating or bias they are automatically deserving.'
Sorry Im not sure how to quote multiple posts so have answered everyone seperately.
http://www.english-online.org.uk/as...&t=14136&sid=6934b9229bc7fc47ae89941ab6269d1f
This is the paragraph I direct you too.
'If the players are being compared with other teams in this year's competition, then it is logically impossible that they can be inferior and still win without some form of cheating or official bias. And if they win without cheating or bias they are automatically deserving.'
Sorry Im not sure how to quote multiple posts so have answered everyone seperately.
2-day bus trip is also way too long. It's what, 750km on a highway most of the time. That's a 7 hour trip. Better than the trip to take part in the CWC. The flight they made this CL campaign to Moscow was 4 hours.
When Barcelona don't win a game in Europe there's always an excuse. You can literally count them because there haven't been many losses. Celtic, Arsenal, Inter, Barca, Rubin. They've got an excuse. Usually the pitch is to blame or the team they were playing was anti-football. The game against Inter wasn't lost because of fatigue.
I don't think Pedro is playing particularly badly, in fact his game is a lot better than last season and he's assisting more than he has in any other season.
Like you say though the goals have evaporated compared to 2 years ago.
Agreed, it's early and it's a massive lead but there are 66 pts still to play for
Adriano is the team's worst defender but is aggressive going forward...and not shy to go for goal
It is done mate, think about it. They need to lose at least 13 points and we would have to win all our remaining games, which is never going to happen if you've seen us play recently. Unless you were talking about Atletico challenging Barcelona offcourse. My only concern is who we draw in the next round of the CL, because there's a big possibility we could get knocked out of that competition aswell, which would be a disaster of a season.
Vato, so what exactly happened at Madrid? Are the players knackered or not arsed?
I'm delighted for Barcelona; it's good to see the club that actually tries to produce its own players win, as opposed to that plastic club from Madrid with their braggart manager.
Indeed, 140 of the 190+ goals that were scored by Barcelona last season were by players of the academy. Here is a good link for some decent statistics on Barcelona:
http://www.totalbarca.com/category/statistics/