Kylian Mbappe | PSG

Jib said:
He had a back injury after the game against Argentina and staff did everything to hide this injury to the media.

They talked about this injury in the french documentary...

And Mbappe at 17-18 carried Monaco in a CL semi final.

He might play "in a farmer league" but he showed in the big stage that he was already one of the best player in the world.

He's only 19 but since Pelé we never saw a young player like him..not even Ronaldo.

The titles and records talk for him despite the fact that he isn't even playing in his best position for PSG and the french NT :lol:

Until 2017 he never played as right winger ;)

This guy is a monster
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He didn't do shit against us with PSG last year, Ramos destroyed him. Like I said, lot of potential but he is not as good as people think.
 
People saying Neymar is clearly outshining Mbappe are missing a very important point, especially about last season...Mbappe lets Cavani and Neymar shine more than him. All of last season, he played in a position that's not where he's at his best, it's not even his second best position, and he dedicated most of his game to making Cavani and Neymar shine. This season, I think he'll still take a backseat to Neymar because he's smart enough to recognize Neymar can be a diva and might not perform at his best if he doesn't feel like he's the main man, but he's also going to become more assertive. This first game can be a sign of that or not mean anything at all, it's just the feeling I get. Also, Mbappe is seven years younger than Neymar, so it's only natural that he lets to Brazilian enjoy his seniority and let him be the main man. It's funny how there's talk not just here but in the press of who's team is it? Is Neymar upset that Mbappe is becoming so popular, etc...it's just constant drama seeking. There were even rumors that Neymar was bullying him and they didn't like each other....just so many lies for the sake of disruption. I think people need to enjoy the fact that these two brilliant players are learning to play along one another, and I see it as only beneficial to both. Mbappe takes a lot of pressure off Neymar and vice versa, and they will learn a thing or two from one another. I'm glad they're on the same team.
 
El-Buitre said:
He didn't do shit against us with PSG last year, Ramos destroyed him. Like I said, lot of potential but he is not as good as people think.
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He is not as good so Real Madrid shouldn't be interested in him right ? Why are you judging him so harshly anyway ? A couple of average games Real Madrid isn't a surprise at his age and when his team shat the bed collectively
 
kouroux said:
He is not as good so Real Madrid shouldn't be interested in him right ? Why are you judging him so harshly anyway ? A couple of average games Real Madrid isn't a surprise at his age and when his team shat the bed collectively
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This. That said, he certainly wasn't on Neymar's level last season, nowhere close. This season we'll see. The good thing with players so young is they can go supernova very quickly...

He's certainly already one of the 15-20 best players in the world though, and he was already last season. That's not even debatable for me
 
giorno said:
This. That said, he certainly wasn't on Neymar's level last season, nowhere close. This season we'll see. The good thing with players so young is they can go supernova very quickly...

He's certainly already one of the 15-20 best players on the world though, and he was already last season. That's not even debatable for me
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He wasn't, I agree. A lot of people forgot about Neymar because he got injured before such an important period. He has showed sufficient signs of getting there sooner rather than later
 
Peyroteo said:
@Zehner Madrid don’t get pressed as much because of the midfield who are great on the ball but I gave you the Liverpool example too from last season. There are multiple ways to fight the opponent’s press, being great in tight spaces as a team and not make mistakes in forbidden areas is one of them but not the only one. Mbappe being arguably the best counterattacking player in the world (behind Salah imo) does make it a lot easier on their midfield and defense to build up while not getting as much pressure. The best part is he doesn’t even have to touch the ball to be able to make that difference. That’s why I say that Ronaldo being one of the best counterattacking players ever and one of the best headers of the ball ever has a huge impact on the game that goes way beyond just the fact he scores a lot of goals that way.

Madrid could have won the CL before 2014 regardless of the midfield not dominating games, you’re taking conclusions from the final results while ignoring what happened. In 2012 they were the best team in the world, Mourinho fecked up and they lost on penalties, it happens. In the end you need a couple of details to go your way but they’ve been at pretty much the same level for 8 years straight. It wasn’t the change in style that made them win more.

Neymar toyed with Bayern when they were crap and was decent (and nothing more) against Madrid who are a bad defensive unit. Regardless, he’s going to have great games because he’s a great player but him being the main threat of the team while playing the way he does makes it easier for top defensive teams to put a stop to it. Not just to Neymar specifically but to PSG. Players like Salah, Mbappe, Reus, Bale, a younger Ronaldo or Robben, etc. who are very fast and impossible to stop in space do not have the same problems to create for themselves in these games and do not need to dribble in tight spaces to completely dominate a game. They facilitate the game for their team just by the threat they carry on the counter since they do not allow the opponents to press high and they make not controlling possession not be a big problem for their teams. Klopp’s teams are the perfect example of this.

As for the dribbling to create chances, you were the one that said it was tough to create chances without dribbling which is simply not true. Like I said, Madrid are the 3 time CL champions, go and watch all their goals for those 3 CL campaigns and tell me how many chances were created via dribbling in tight spaces. 99% of chances in football had no kind of dribbling done in the build up to it, it might be great to watch and make you call those goals ‘works of art’ but it is not a necessary part of the game for a team to be able to create chances.
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Yes and players like Neymar don't even need to touch the ball to make the difference, too, because they constantly bind two+ opponent players since they wouldn't be defendable otherwise. Things like that work both ways, you really can't use that as an argument for the one side and ignore it on the other. Especially since Neymar himself isn't exactly slow and a brillant counterattacking player himself.
I disagree with the idea that Madrid is on the same level since Mourinho by the way. I don't even think they were on the current level in 2014 with 2016 and 2017 clearly being their peak.
And Neymar was only decent against Madrid? Rewatch his highlights, this is much more than decent. He got an assist and created many chances, could've easily been 3-4 in that game if his team mates were more clinical.

It's weird that youmention players like Robben or Salah who have amazing close control and excel in tight spaces, especially Robben whose dribblings in a crowded penalty area made him the player he is. Also that you use Klopp's team as an example.. I mean it is Klopp who was one of the pioneers of crowding the midfield and started all the pressing obsession in international football. And his teams were always brillant in tight spaces with players like Götze, Gündogan, Kagawa etc. Especially when he took Dortmund to the CL final.

Madrid is in fact less reliant than most top clubs on dribbling and weirdly good at utilizing crosses but
a) they are the only great team in the past decade that can say that about themselves while Barcelona, Bayern, PSG, City even Juve use it much more with players like Messi, Iniesta, Robben, Ribery, Douglas Costa, Dybala, Sane, Sterling, Aguero, Silva, Neymar, Cuadrado, Coman and so forth.
b) How often Madrid did create chances after some midfield dribbles of Isco, Modric or Marcelo which don't make it into goal compilations? How many corner kicks they converted were created through dribblings? How many free kicks and penalties?
c) Dribbling is also used very often to retain possession and is an important aspect of dominating the opponent, even if it doesn't directly lead to a chance.
 
Zehner said:
Yes and players like Neymar don't even need to touch the ball to make the difference, too, because they constantly bind two+ opponent players since they wouldn't be defendable otherwise. Things like that work both ways, you really can't use that as an argument for the one side and ignore it on the other. Especially since Neymar himself isn't exactly slow and a brillant counterattacking player himself.
I disagree with the idea that Madrid is on the same level since Mourinho by the way. I don't even think they were on the current level in 2014 with 2016 and 2017 clearly being their peak.
And Neymar was only decent against Madrid? Rewatch his highlights, this is much more than decent. He got an assist and created many chances, could've easily been 3-4 in that game if his team mates were more clinical.

It's weird that youmention players like Robben or Salah who have amazing close control and excel in tight spaces, especially Robben whose dribblings in a crowded penalty area made him the player he is. Also that you use Klopp's team as an example.. I mean it is Klopp who was one of the pioneers of crowding the midfield and started all the pressing obsession in international football. And his teams were always brillant in tight spaces with players like Götze, Gündogan, Kagawa etc. Especially when he took Dortmund to the CL final.

Madrid is in fact less reliant than most top clubs on dribbling and weirdly good at utilizing crosses but
a) they are the only great team in the past decade that can say that about themselves while Barcelona, Bayern, PSG, City even Juve use it much more with players like Messi, Iniesta, Robben, Ribery, Douglas Costa, Dybala, Sane, Sterling, Aguero, Silva, Neymar, Cuadrado, Coman and so forth.
b) How often Madrid did create chances after some midfield dribbles of Isco, Modric or Marcelo which don't make it into goal compilations? How many corner kicks they converted were created through dribblings? How many free kicks and penalties?
c) Dribbling is also used very often to retain possession and is an important aspect of dominating the opponent, even if it doesn't directly lead to a chance.
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Of course it’s important. It’s just not necessary to create chances nor does it have as much importance as you’re giving it. There are also different kinds of dribbling, between using dribbling to create chances or using it to retain the ball there’s a big difference. We’ve gone on a big tangent, let’s just agree on disagreeing.

As for your first paragraph, I agree that players like Messi or Neymar when they end up getting man marked and draw the attention of 2 or 3 defenders also help the team by giving space to other players. The problem is if there aren’t any other players in the team that can take advantage of that then it’s all a bit pointless and it can easily end up with the whole team getting taken out of the game rather than just one player.
 
People underrating him are hilarious or are tryhards in having a different opinion. He's got it all at the age of 19, fecking hell.
 
Incredible player, still so young as well which makes it scarier.
 
haram said:
Incredible player, still so young as well which makes it scarier.
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Not necessarily. This might be Mbappe's level for his whole career. Which is still fecking good anyway, but not everyone significantly progresses with age.
 
VorZakone said:
Not necessarily. This might be Mbappe's level for his whole career. Which is still fecking good anyway, but not everyone significantly progresses with age.
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I'm sure he will continue to get better with experience.
 
VorZakone said:
Not necessarily. This might be Mbappe's level for his whole career. Which is still fecking good anyway, but not everyone significantly progresses with age.
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People were saying that about him last year. He’s already shown progress since then. A guy dedicated like him will constantly improve. Especially being alongside players like Neymar and Cavani. To suggest this is possibly as good as it gets for him is nonsense. Not just on a technical level but physical as well.
 
Sayros said:
People were saying that about him last year. He’s already shown progress since then. A guy dedicated like him will constantly improve. Especially being alongside players like Neymar and Cavani. To suggest this is possibly as good as it gets for him is nonsense. Not just on a technical level but physical as well.
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Exactly. No one can guarantee the future but it's silly to say "This might be Mbappe's level for his whole career.", specially when he keeps improving
 
kouroux said:
Exactly. No one can guarantee the future but it's silly to say "This might be Mbappe's level for his whole career.", specially when he keeps improving
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I think you are ridiculing the opposition's arguments a little bit. People have profound arguments for this opinion. Usually when you speak about the potential of highly talented youngsters, it is all about "wait until he learns to use his abilities". Cristiano is the prime example. He had everything, pace, technique, mentality and so on, even when he was 18. What he improved in was a) his decision making, b) his end product, c) focus/consistency and d) his physique, of course. That's basically the same for every talent out there. Motoric abilities are developed early in your life and the older you get the harder it is to improve them. I mean, which top player really improved his technical ability after turning 21/22?
Mbappe however is a little bit like Messi in the sense that he's incredible mature even at a very young age and rarely makes the wrong decisions. You don't see him dribbling in the wrong situations, losing the ball in dangerous areas, running into dead ends and so on, he's already very good in these areas. But if you ask me, his skill set simply isn't as good as those of the players he gets compared with. IMO, the generation of extraordinary talents before him - Neymar, Hazard and Götze - had greater abilities overall, especially technically.
 
Zehner said:
I think you are ridiculing the opposition's arguments a little bit. People have profound arguments for this opinion. Usually when you speak about the potential of highly talented youngsters, it is all about "wait until he learns to use his abilities". Cristiano is the prime example. He had everything, pace, technique, mentality and so on, even when he was 18. What he improved in was a) his decision making, b) his end product, c) focus/consistency and d) his physique, of course. That's basically the same for every talent out there. Motoric abilities are developed early in your life and the older you get the harder it is to improve them. I mean, which top player really improved his technical ability after turning 21/22?
Mbappe however is a little bit like Messi in the sense that he's incredible mature even at a very young age and rarely makes the wrong decisions. You don't see him dribbling in the wrong situations, losing the ball in dangerous areas, running into dead ends and so on, he's already very good in these areas. But if you ask me, his skill set simply isn't as good as those of the players he gets compared with. IMO, the generation of extraordinary talents before him - Neymar, Hazard and Götze - had greater abilities overall, especially technically.
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The way I see things is very simple. Every player is different therefore their development is different
I am not saying MBappe will be that much better just like I ain't saying he might never be better than this. In all honesty I am enjoying his development and improvement, I have been watching him for a long time now and he keeps getting better and better with each passing months even, never mind seasons.
Considering all of that, it is still stupid to make any serious projection on the type of level he'll reach.
 
Zehner said:
I think you are ridiculing the opposition's arguments a little bit. People have profound arguments for this opinion. Usually when you speak about the potential of highly talented youngsters, it is all about "wait until he learns to use his abilities". Cristiano is the prime example. He had everything, pace, technique, mentality and so on, even when he was 18. What he improved in was a) his decision making, b) his end product, c) focus/consistency and d) his physique, of course. That's basically the same for every talent out there. Motoric abilities are developed early in your life and the older you get the harder it is to improve them. I mean, which top player really improved his technical ability after turning 21/22?
Mbappe however is a little bit like Messi in the sense that he's incredible mature even at a very young age and rarely makes the wrong decisions. You don't see him dribbling in the wrong situations, losing the ball in dangerous areas, running into dead ends and so on, he's already very good in these areas. But if you ask me, his skill set simply isn't as good as those of the players he gets compared with. IMO, the generation of extraordinary talents before him - Neymar, Hazard and Götze - had greater abilities overall, especially technically.
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Profound is a little over-the-top. It is a ridiculous argument. There's plenty of people who have improved their technical abilities after turning 21/22, Henry, Zidane, Ribery, Ronaldinho, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, the list goes on...The only people who stall in their improvements at 19 years old (or 21/22) are people who aren't working hard enough and are satisfied with their performance (like Hazard for example). Mbappe is very much like CR7 in that he's never satisfied. Also, his skill set is as good as a CR7, easily. He doesn't do as much of the useless tricks that CR7 did in his younger days, but he's technically as good as CR7 was in his younger days, and he will improve on it as time goes by. I think you see greater abilities as in dribbling, which is important and those players you mentioned are better at it than he is, but it's not a very big margin. When you see his ability to ghost past defenders, when you see his goal against Juventus when he was with Monaco in how he fakes out a world-class defense with his movement to get to the tap in, when you see his chip goal last week or the way he frees himself between defenders for the cut back pass to Neymar yesterday....those are skill sets that neither Neymar, Gotze, or Hazard show on a consistent basis. I know we all have our opinions, but I think time will prove that he's only scratching the surface. Above all, his explosion in improvement will come when he becomes the main man on his team. I can see him reach similar numbers to Messi and CR7 in a few years. Time will tell if I'm just crazy in my expectations or not. As @kouroux said, Mbappe has improved consistently, and I think we both watch him a bit more than you do, so I feel pretty confident in telling you that the best is yet to come and I think that's a good thing for all football fans.
 
Neymar has proved way more at high level than Mbappé (in the CL mainly) Mbappé winning a World Cup against Croatia/Belgium/Uruguay and the worst Argentina side of all time doesn't make him better than Neymar, the kid did nothing vs Belgium and Uruguay the only two good def he faced in the WC actually.

He did nothing vs Madrid last year either. Let's see how he play this season in the CL because I couldn't care less seeing him score goals vs Angers or Rennes or Guingamp or Auxerre or Annecy. He is fun to watch but I want to see him performing in CL against good teams now.
 
El-Buitre said:
Neymar has proved way more at high level than Mbappé (in the CL mainly) Mbappé winning a World Cup against Croatia/Belgium/Uruguay and the worst Argentina side of all time doesn't make him better than Neymar, the kid did nothing vs Belgium and Uruguay the only two good def he faced in the WC actually.
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Huh? Did you even watch Mbappe vs Belgium? He created the most chances out of anyone on the field and was a danger throughout. Sometimes, I see people talk about the kid but I'm fairly sure they've barely watched him play and yet form an opinion. He was outstanding vs Belgium and that was with some dislocated vertebrates.

Also, I don't think anyone is comparing Mbappe with Neymar now, he's seven years younger. People are making projections of where he will be around Neymar's age, and I think he will have accomplished and proved far more by then. The need to constantly compare instead of enjoying the fact they're on the same team is strange at times.
 
Sayros said:
Huh? Did you even watch Mbappe vs Belgium? He created the most chances out of anyone on the field and was a danger throughout. Sometimes, I see people talk about the kid but I'm fairly sure they've barely watched him play and yet form an opinion. He was outstanding vs Belgium and that was with some dislocated vertebrates.

Also, I don't think anyone is comparing Mbappe with Neymar now, he's seven years younger. People are making projections of where he will be around Neymar's age, and I think he will have accomplished and proved far more by then. The need to constantly compare instead of enjoying the fact they're on the same team is strange at times.
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Outstanding? Really? France barely did anything in attack from what I remember.

Mbappe also was non existent in the final until the ref screwed Croatia over.

He's a terrific young player but people do overhype his influence/performances.
 
El-Buitre said:
the kid did nothing vs Belgium and Uruguay the only two good def he faced in the WC actually.
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He was the best player on the pitch against Belgium. If Giroud could finish we'd still be talking about that assist...

He did nothing vs Madrid last year either.
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Aside from setting up their goal you mean?
 
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