Kylian Mbappe | PSG

Kinsella said:
No he wouldn't.
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Yes he would. Easily. Ben Arfa is a better dribbler than Messi if eyetest was all that mattered

Kinsella said:
Mbappe has only played in the mighty French League.
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You Messi fanboys are the funniest bunch.

Mbappe has way more CL goals and assists, especially against big Europsan clubs and he scored 3 K.O stage World Cup goals at 19 including one in the final whereas Messi has never even scored one in four attempts
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
Yes he would. Easily. Ben Arfa is a better dribbler than Messi if eyetest was all that mattered
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:lol:

BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
You Messi fanboys are the funniest bunch.

Mbappe has way more CL goals and assists, especially against big Europsan clubs and he scored 3 K.O stage World Cup goals at 19 including one in the final whereas Messi has never even scored one in four attempts
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Not a fanboy, just pointing out some facts.

As I said - what teams were both playing for? What was the competition for places like and what was the calibre of the opposition like?

Mbappe, as talented as he undoubtedly is, has only ever played in the French league where the standard of the opposition is way lower than La Liga.
 
No better proof than these last pages that Mbappe truly is the new Ronaldo
 
NasirTimothy said:
Oh dear. Bodied :lol:

However, Young Messi was a better player than young Mbappe, that much cannot be debated if you actually watched both of them play. I just take issue with people that try and claim Mbappe is ‘not that good’ or a ‘pace merchant’. He’s an exceptional young talent with multiple Ballon D’Or award winning potential.
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I actually remember Messi at around 18-19 was regarded as top 3 young player in the world at that time, just behind Rooney and Ronaldo. He wasn’t considered as one of the very best in the world until he reached around 21-22. At around 18 you could argue he was most talented though with best dribbling, but not exactly the best young player out there. As teenager, Mbappe was more established and proven.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I actually remember Messi at around 18-19 was regarded as top 3 young player in the world at that time, just behind Rooney and Ronaldo. He wasn’t considered as one of the very best in the world until he reached around 21-22. At around 18 you could argue he was most talented though with best dribbling, but not exactly the best young player out there. As teenager, Mbappe was more established and proven.
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a 19 year old Messi scored hattrick in a Classico match in 2006. He was already regarded as among the best players in the world in 2007 when he just reached 20 years of age, finished third behind Kaka' and Ronaldo in Balon d'Or that year.
 
krentz said:
a 19 year old Messi scored hattrick in a Classico match in 2006. He was already regarded as among the best players in the world in 2007 when he just reached 20 years of age, finished third behind Kaka' and Ronaldo in Balon d'Or that year.
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Mbappe before reaching 20 scored 2 goals vs man city, 3 goals vs dortmund, 1 goal vs juve, 1 goal vs bayern, 4 goals in the world cup finals including 2 against messis argentina and 1 in the final. We cant deny as a teenager Mbappe was performing at a higher level more consistently than Messi or Ronaldo and thats not including anything he done in ligue 1 during those years, doesnt mean he will go on to be better than them but at that age he was just further ahead in his progression as a player.
 
krentz said:
a 19 year old Messi scored hattrick in a Classico match in 2006. He was already regarded as among the best players in the world in 2007 when he just reached 20 years of age, finished third behind Kaka' and Ronaldo in Balon d'Or that year.
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Mbappe also finished 4th in ballon d'or rankings ahead of Messi (in 5th although i didn't necessarily agree with this) at the age of 20 despite having the disadvantage of playing in a weak league (only ligue 1 player in the top 10)
 
krentz said:
a 19 year old Messi scored hattrick in a Classico match in 2006. He was already regarded as among the best players in the world in 2007 when he just reached 20 years of age, finished third behind Kaka' and Ronaldo in Balon d'Or that year.
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Sure but an 18 year old Rooney scored an amazing hattrick plus an assist in his debut, and 18 year old Ronaldo has had an electrifying performance in his debut too. Just saying, Messi wasn’t as good/established as Rooney and Ronaldo in straight comparison when he was only 18-19, although Rooney and Ronaldo was a little older and more experienced at that time (Ronaldo was 20, Rooney was 19 with few years under their belt when Messi was 18). Messi did turn into a top player when he was 20, but even so he was not as good as Ronaldo yet, who was main contender for Ballon D’or at that time. He did become best in world when he was 22.
Mbappe has been best young player in the world since he was 18 to 22. I would say:

At 18-19, Mbappe was better (Mbappe won WC, impress in CL, more proven, while Messi is more talented but not quite as established).

At 20-21, more or less at same level (both are regarded as one of best, top 3-5 in the world),

At 22, Messi was clearly much better (Messi being the best and far better than others except Ronaldo) Mbappe was still regarded as top 3-5)
 
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jdotman said:
Mbappe also finished 4th in ballon d'or rankings ahead of Messi (in 5th although i didn't necessarily agree with this) at the age of 20 despite having the disadvantage of playing in a weak league (only ligue 1 player in the top 10)
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The difference is that Messi hasnt only improved remarkably but proved his consistency throughout his senior years, let's see if Mbappe can do that.
 
Main problem with Messi when he was young were his injurys. When he changed his diet, he started to have much less injurys as we see today.

And it's a little sad to see all reduced to stats like G+A. There are so many great players that you could say their carrers where mediocre when you only see those numbers.
 
krentz said:
The difference is that Messi hasnt only improved remarkably but proved his consistency throughout his senior years, let's see if Mbappe can do that.
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100% true, I don't even think Mbappe will reach the level he did especially in that short amount of time. As soon as pep came in and made some changes to the team, Messi reached another level. But by that time he was already 21. People like to act as if Ronaldo and Messi were already gods since they were teenagers and looking back at their highlights as teens in hindsight its easy to say they were but in reality that just wasn't the case. Ronaldo also became truly world class after we sold Van Nistelrooy and changed to a more fluid front three, by that time he was already 21 also. Mbappe was looking the real deal and performing consistently ever since he burst on to the scene at Monaco, he was only 18. That doesn't mean hes gonna be better than Messi or Ronaldo. This is the point im trying to make.
 
jdotman said:
100% true, I don't even think Mbappe will reach the level he did especially in that short amount of time. As soon as pep came in and made some changes to the team, Messi reached another level. But by that time he was already 21. People like to act as if Ronaldo and Messi were already gods since they were teenagers and looking back at their highlights as teens in hindsight its easy to say they were but in reality that just wasn't the case. Ronaldo also became truly world class after we sold Van Nistelrooy and changed to a more fluid front three, by that time he was already 21 also. Mbappe was looking the real deal and performing consistently ever since he burst on to the scene at Monaco, he was only 18. That doesn't mean hes gonna be better than Messi or Ronaldo. This is the point im trying to make.
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Ronaldo Phenomenon was a god as very young player. Best player in the world at 20 years old already.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I actually remember Messi at around 18-19 was regarded as top 3 young player in the world at that time, just behind Rooney and Ronaldo. He wasn’t considered as one of the very best in the world until he reached around 21-22. At around 18 you could argue he was most talented though with best dribbling, but not exactly the best young player out there. As teenager, Mbappe was more established and proven.
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Messi finished top 3 in the Ballon D’Or voting in the year that he turned 20, so this is obviously incorrect.
 
jdotman said:
Mbappe before reaching 20 scored 2 goals vs man city, 3 goals vs dortmund, 1 goal vs juve, 1 goal vs bayern, 4 goals in the world cup finals including 2 against messis argentina and 1 in the final. We cant deny as a teenager Mbappe was performing at a higher level more consistently than Messi or Ronaldo and thats not including anything he done in ligue 1 during those years, doesnt mean he will go on to be better than them but at that age he was just further ahead in his progression as a player.
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Agsin, you are making the mistake of looking at the goals he scored and claiming this makes him a better player at that age. That’s not how football works. I like Mbappe a lot, but he was not a better player at that age. He may have scored more goals, but that doesn’t determine who is better.
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
Yes he would. Easily. Ben Arfa is a better dribbler than Messi if eyetest was all that mattered


You Messi fanboys are the funniest bunch.

Mbappe has way more CL goals and assists, especially against big Europsan clubs and he scored 3 K.O stage World Cup goals at 19 including one in the final whereas Messi has never even scored one in four attempts
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Only the eyetest of someone who'd be on heavy drugs :lol:
 
jdotman said:
Mbappe before reaching 20 scored 2 goals vs man city, 3 goals vs dortmund, 1 goal vs juve, 1 goal vs bayern, 4 goals in the world cup finals including 2 against messis argentina and 1 in the final. We cant deny as a teenager Mbappe was performing at a higher level more consistently than Messi or Ronaldo and thats not including anything he done in ligue 1 during those years, doesnt mean he will go on to be better than them but at that age he was just further ahead in his progression as a player.
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There are two reasons why Mbappe put up similar numbers to a young Messi.

1. He was in a team that desperately needed him to play. Messi had some guy called Ronaldinho in his preferred spot and had to learn a new position and break into the team.
2. He plays in Ligue 1.

You only need to have watched him play to know by the time he was 20 Messi was already a level beyond anything Mbappe has so far shown. He started a little later because he had to overtake the literal best player in the world to get into the team.

Anyway, as far as teenage sensations go neither are close to this guy:

EVrAkTqXkAEj-Vw
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
Yes he would. Easily. Ben Arfa is a better dribbler than Messi if eyetest was all that mattered


You Messi fanboys are the funniest bunch.

Mbappe has way more CL goals and assists, especially against big Europsan clubs and he scored 3 K.O stage World Cup goals at 19 including one in the final whereas Messi has never even scored one in four attempts
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I’ve tried to humour you and reason with you because I’m a big Mbappe admirer, but it’s pretty clear now that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Sure but an 18 year old Rooney scored an amazing hattrick plus an assist in his debut, and 18 year old Ronaldo has had an electrifying performance in his debut too. Just saying, Messi wasn’t as good/established as Rooney and Ronaldo in straight comparison when he was only 18-19, although Rooney and Ronaldo was a little older and more experienced at that time (Ronaldo was 20, Rooney was 19 with few years under their belt when Messi was 18). Messi did turn into a top player when he was 20, but even so he was not as good as Ronaldo yet, who was main contender for Ballon D’or at that time. He did become best in world when he was 22.
Mbappe has been best young player in the world since he was 18 to 22. I would say:

At 18-19, Mbappe was better (Mbappe won WC, impress in CL, more proven, while Messi is more talented but not quite as established).

At 20-21, more or less at same level (both are regarded as one of best, top 3-5 in the world),

At 22, Messi was clearly much better (Messi being the best and far better than others except Ronaldo) Mbappe was still regarded as top 3-5)
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Literally everything you wrote here is false
 
kouroux said:
Only the eyetest of someone who'd be on heavy drugs :lol:
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NasirTimothy said:
I’ve tried to humour you and reason with you because I’m a big Mbappe admirer, but it’s pretty clear now that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
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You guys quite simply don't watch Ben Arfa at all it's okay. No need to be ashamed about being ignorant on a player.

It's pretty funny that the guys who keep on saying Messi was top 3 in the world at 18 when he was a substitute behind Ludovic Giuly, are telling me I don't know what I'm talking about
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
You guys quite simply don't watch Ben Arfa at all it's okay. No need to be ashamed about being ignorant on a player.

It's pretty funny that the guys who keep on saying Messi was top 3 in the world at 18 when he was a substitute behind Ludovic Giuly, are telling me I don't know what I'm talking about
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You don’t know what you’re talking about, it’s quite clear. If Mbappe was at that Barcelona team at 17/18 instead of Monaco, he also would have been a substitute.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Literally everything you wrote here is false
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Have you actually watched football at that period? You didn’t sound like you did.

Messi:
At 17-18: 1 goals in 9 games
At 18-19: 8 goals in 25 games

Mbappe is clearly better. Far more established but arguably less talented. He already shined in WC and CL at that age, whereas Messi is mostly only a bench player in Barca, although he is regarded very talented youngster with huge potential, but potential and raw talent is just, potential and raw talent. He did nothing at that age to suggest he is already better than Mbappe yet. You would be the most bias person in the world if you think otherwise.

Messi:
At 19-20: 17 goals in 36 games
At 20-21: 16 goals in 40 games

Mbappe and Messi are more or less equal in objective sense, although Mbappe is more productive in worser league, Messi has edge on superior performance level. In terms of pure subjective sense, you may favours Messi more as he is clearly better dribbler and capable of scoring some wonder goals. But Mbappe does have far better output season over season. At 20 Messi finished top 3 in Ballon D’or, Mbappe finished top 4. So it’s matter of subjective preference.

Messi at 21-22: 38 goals in 51 games

Messi is clearly far better in terms of performances, although he is at similar productive level as Mbappe, he did it in far better league. Messi also won Ballon D’or first time at age 22. No question Messi is far better at this age.

So every part of above is wrong according to you? Like seriously? How old are you actually? Are your merely a thick person or just a heavily biased person?
 
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NasirTimothy said:
You don’t know what you’re talking about, it’s quite clear. If Mbappe was at that Barcelona team at 17/18 instead of Monaco, he also would have been a substitute.
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To Ludovic Giuly? What a good one. Mbappe at 18 scored 26 goals and had 11 assits in all comps

6 goals in 6 games against City,Dortmund,Juventus
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
To Ludovic Giuly? What a good one. Mbappe at 18 scored 26 goals and had 11 assits in all comps

6 goals in 6 games against City,Dortmund,Juventus
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Not sure why you’re ragging on Giuly so much here. He played a very useful and specific tactical role in what was a very effective attack. One of the key qualities he possessed that Ronaldinho, Eto’o or Messi didn’t was a willingness to be subservient to better players, to recognise his place and play a tactical role rather than an individualistic one. Which we know Mbappe wouldn’t. It isn’t a straight 1 for 1 swap because that isn’t how team balance works.

I think Mbappe’s great too, for what it’s worth. It’s not some kind of agenda.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Messi finished top 3 in the Ballon D’Or voting in the year that he turned 20, so this is obviously incorrect.
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Mbappe finished top 4 in Ballon D’or voting in the year that he turned 20 too. Apparently huge difference to you between top 3 and top 4.
 
Brwned said:
Not sure why you’re ragging on Giuly so much here. He played a very useful and specific tactical role in what was a very effective attack. One of the key qualities he possessed that Ronaldinho, Eto’o or Messi didn’t was a willingness to be subservient to better players, to recognise his place and play a tactical role rather than an individualistic one. Which we know Mbappe wouldn’t. It isn’t a straight 1 for 1 swap because that isn’t how team balance works.

I think Mbappe’s great too, for what it’s worth. It’s not some kind of agenda.
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Mbappe at 18 had more goals and more assists in all comps than Messi did at 20
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
Yes he would. Easily. Ben Arfa is a better dribbler than Messi if eyetest was all that mattered
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Ah now, come on. He might be a bit easier on the eye and employed a wider range of skills when beating opponents, he is more of a show pony and his dribbling rarely led to anything productive.

And Ben Arfa can only use his left foot..
 
Messi and Mbappe have unbelievable stats but they are so different in terms of style of play and role...
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
You guys quite simply don't watch Ben Arfa at all it's okay. No need to be ashamed about being ignorant on a player.

It's pretty funny that the guys who keep on saying Messi was top 3 in the world at 18 when he was a substitute behind Ludovic Giuly, are telling me I don't know what I'm talking about
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:lol: you're a bullshitter extraordianire. I've watched Hatem since his first ever pro game. Even watched for the U20 at the time, he was the most promising young player of that famous group but you gotta be absolutely special in the dome to think his dribbling was better than Messi at the time. Messi was only a sub because he was struggling for fitness, it was obvious he was a unique generational talent. Even that young, he was that good
 
kouroux said:
:lol: you're a bullshitter extraordianire. I've watched Hatem since his first ever pro game. Even watched for the U20 at the time, he was the most promising young player of that famous group but you gotta be absolutely special in the dome to think his dribbling was better than Messi at the time
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:lol:
 
RedRonaldo said:
Have you actually watched football at that period? You didn’t sound like you did.

Messi:
At 17-18: 1 goals in 9 games
At 18-19: 8 goals in 25 games

Mbappe is clearly better. Far more established but arguably less talented. He already shined in WC and CL at that age, whereas Messi is mostly only a bench player in Barca, although he is regarded very talented youngster with huge potential, but potential and raw talent is just, potential and raw talent. He did nothing at that age to suggest he is already better than Mbappe yet. You would be the most bias person in the world if you think otherwise.

Messi:
At 19-20: 17 goals in 36 games
At 20-21: 16 goals in 40 games

Mbappe and Messi are more or less equal in objective sense, although Mbappe is more productive in worser league, Messi has edge on superior performance level. In terms of pure subjective sense, you may favours Messi more as he is clearly better dribbler and capable of scoring some wonder goals. But Mbappe does have far better output season over season. At 20 Messi finished top 3 in Ballon D’or, Mbappe finished top 4. So it’s matter of subjective preference.

Messi at 21-22: 38 goals in 51 games

Messi is clearly far better in terms of performances, although he is at similar productive level as Mbappe, he did it in far better league. Messi also won Ballon D’or first time at age 22. No question Messi is far better at this age.

So every part of above is wrong according to you? Like seriously? How old are you actually? Are your merely a thick person or just a heavily biased person?
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You’re a bit slow so I will try and make it as clear as possible for you:

ADDING UP GOALS AND ASSISTS IS A SIMPLETON’S WAY OF DETERMINING WHO IS A BETTER PLAYER.

Which is not to say that goals and assists don’t matter. They do. But you cannot claim that one player is better than another playing at a different time in a different team in a different position and in a different league based solely on those metrics.

As I said to the other guy, don’t use stats. Watch them play. But if you’re going to use stats, use all the stats. Successful dribbles, completed passes, key passes, XG, pre-assists, chances created, etc. This is not hard.
 
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Mbappe had a great world cup in 2018 but why does that elevate him to comparisons with the greatest players of all time?

As a player he plays with his head down, possesses devastating speed and is incredibly direct. I'm not seeing a better player now than he was 3 years ago - can anyone cite the improvements in his game over that time?
 
NasirTimothy said:
You’re a bit slow so I will try and make it as clear as possible for you:

ADDING UP GOALS AND ASSISTS IS A SIMPLETON’S WAY OF DETERMINING WHO IS A BETTER PLAYER.

Which is not to say that goals and assists don’t matter. They do. But you cannot claim that one player is better than another playing at a different time in a different team in a different position and in a different league based solely on those metrics.

As I said to the other guy, don’t use stats. Watch them play. But if you’re going to use stats, use all the stats. Successful dribbles, completed passes, key passes, XG, pre-assists, chances created, etc. This is not hard.
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Another empty reply without any substance to back it up. Mbappe has top class performances in WC and CL to back it up, what has Messi got at 18-19? Sure, dribbles. Thats all it matters for fans like you. Dribble > everything in football, including goals, assists, and WC trophy, of course.

And by the way, goals and assist does matter for forward player. Its not everything, but it does matter. If it doesn't, Martial would be one of the best player in the club, and Pogba would be better than Bruno, because they are the better dribbler. Let's not kid yourself it doesn't.
 
kouroux said:
:lol: you're a bullshitter extraordianire. I've watched Hatem since his first ever pro game. Even watched for the U20 at the time, he was the most promising young player of that famous group but you gotta be absolutely special in the dome to think his dribbling was better than Messi at the time. Messi was only a sub because he was struggling for fitness, it was obvious he was a unique generational talent. Even that young, he was that good
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I said going by the EYE TEST his dribbling was and still is better than Messi's. Far more variety of skills, and he even has several of solo goals where he dribbles the entire pitch.

Messi isn't even the best dribbler of the past decade. This is some ridiculous best player in the world bias. It was Neymar who was tasked with beating his man 1v1 to create chances in Luis Enrique's system. Not Messi
 
RedRonaldo said:
Another empty reply without any substance to back it up. Mbappe has WC and CL performances to back it up, what has Messi got at 18-19? Sure, dribbles. Thats all it matters for fans like you.

And by the way, goals and assist does matter for forward player. Its not everything, but it does matter. If it doesn't, Martial would be one of the best player in the club, and Pogba would be better than Bruno. Let's not kid yourself it doesn't.
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You don’t know anything about football so there’s no point debating further.
 
BalanceUnAutreJoint said:
I said going by the EYE TEST his dribbling was and still is better than Messi's. Far more variety of skills, and he even has several of solo goals where he dribbles the entire pitch.

Messi isn't even the best dribbler of the past decade. This is some ridiculous best player in the world bias. It was Neymar who was tasked with beating his man 1v1 to create chances in Luis Enrique's system. Not Messi
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Having a greater variety of tricks or flourishes doesn’t make you a better dribbler. Only an insane person would claim that Ben Arfa is a better dribbler than Messi (‘eye-test’ or any test….)
 
NasirTimothy said:
You mean I haven’t given you lots of stats with no context whatsoever. I told you, only clueless people do that.
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You haven't raise a single valid point to back up anything in your arguments. A waste of time discussing anything constructive with people like you.
 
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