Messi played on the right because his best position was on the right. When Ronaldinho was injured Messi still played on the right. When Barca sold dinho Messi still played RW, they were not fighting for the same spot while at barca.
Kylian Mbappe | PSG
- Thread starter RDCR07
- Start date
I wasn’t actually debating with that clown, so no.
I find it hilarious people are determined to deny Mbappe was better as a teen than Messi. So what? We all remember 18 year old Rooney was better than 18 year old CR7. Long term we all know how it all panned out.
Mpabbe being better than a Messi at 18-20 doesn't necessarily translate to him ever going to be at the level of peak Messi. For all we know that could be his potential ceiling.
Mpabbe being better than a Messi at 18-20 doesn't necessarily translate to him ever going to be at the level of peak Messi. For all we know that could be his potential ceiling.
Last edited:
He’s accomplished more but it’s a weird argument as we’re looking at Mbappe as a young player and trying to gauge his potential while we are looking at Messi as a young player and we know what his potential was.
So it’s difficult to separate that, you can look at what Mbappe has achieved and say “see Mbappe was better look at the stats” or you can look at Messi and say “we know how talented he was, you can’t compare his journey to the first team with Mbappe’s when Mbappe played at Monaco and then PSG in Ligue 1, while Messi was behind a number of stars at Barcelona in La Liga“. In all likelihood, given the same career path, Messi probably wouldn’t have been far off his accomplishments but we will never know that so all in all it’s a pointless argument.
Pretty much. For example its objectively true an Mbappe has had better numbers and impact between age 17 and 20 than a Messi did. But that conveniently overlooks the fact Messi had a lot of fitness issues in that period that stalled his progress at first. So really the whole thing gets one no where. Especially since one has a career unfolding and the other is nearing the end of cementing how big a legend of legends he will be when he is finally done.
I’m just going off what I remember from watching Messi at that time. It’s not about the numbers for me, especially because (as someone else pointed out) Messi had a lot of fitness issues as a teen and so did not play as many games as Kylian has.
I used to watch Messi every week by accident because I was a big Dinho fan at the time, and tuned in to watch him initially. Messi’s all round performances were better than Mbappe’s IMO, right from the beginning. The goal he scored against Getafe at age 19 for example (the carbon copy of Maradona’s ‘Goal of the Century’), I don’t think Mbappe is actually capable of scoring a goal like that.
And I’m a big Mbappe supporter, as I’ve made clear earlier in this thread. He’s special, and what he did in the World Cup was something that not even Messi was able to do as a teen. But that doesn’t mean that Mbappe was a better player, I’m not sure how anyone comes to that conclusion who watched them both from the beginning.
But really who cares who was better at a certain age? I mean it’s pretty obvious to me Mbappé was a superior player the first 3 years of their career, it still never changes the fact that Messi is the GOAT and won’t be surpassed anytime soon overall. It’s just a weird debate to have pages about and it’s going to be exhausting if that’s the conversation where Messi fans are now shifting their insecurities from CR7 debates to Mbappé, who is always going to be fighting a losing battle in those, which isn’t fair for any player to begin with.
Not really, like I said in the youth teams Messi played mainly centrally, it was just the case that when he was promoted to the senior side, his easiest pathway to regular football was playing on the right. When Eto’o left and Ibra came in, Messi eventually took the central spot.
That can be asked of almost anything when it comes to discussing football and footballers, it’s all largely pointless but it’s still fun to debate and give different perspectives, and reasoning as to why we came to that conclusion. I mean you yourself are engaging in that debate right now
We've already covered this but Messi played on the left or centre to begin with. If you find videos of him in the youth teams you can see it for yourself. He moved to the right so he could get into the first team, in hindsight the right decision and once he was there it became his best position, but it did take him a little bit of time to get used to.
I think it has less to do with player support but more with two general mindsets clashing with each other: Judging a player based on scoring stats vs. judging a player based on the eye test. Mbappe and Messi are just venues for that. Many people perceive it as very superficial to judge players solely based on output. Some just post the scoring stats of both players and pretend it's as easy as a third grade math exam. Mbappe had better scorers at a similar age but then again Messi's overall game was on a different level. Worth mentioning that Mourinho - at that time one of the best coaches in the world - and his scouting team identified then 18 year old Messi as a similar thread to prime Ronaldinho.
Messi’s game was not on another level. He had great dribbling and ball retention. He made poor decisions, didn’t finish his chances, and couldn’t physically impose his game on a consistent basis at that age. Mbappé was the main focus of a Juventus team that hadn’t conceded in over a thousand minutes in the CL at 18 years old and still managed to score, after taking out Dortmund and City. It’s just a different (read superior) impact at that age. Barcelona was one of the best two teams in Spain, and he had plenty of great players to help his transition and put him in winning conditions (although they still weren’t the Juggernaut Barca). I’m not a stat guru but I’m sure, to compensate for Messi’s inability to stay healthy, you’d still see his goal+assist/90m vastly inferior to Mbappé at that time. It’s okay, Zidane is my favorite player and he, arguably, didn’t even become a great player until his mid-20’s.
That’s the troll.
I don’t think Messi’s the GOAT. I’d have him second or third all time.
Still going on about that?
https://moesquare.medium.com/golden-boys-of-yesteryear-lionel-messi-926a39689f46
Read it
https://moesquare.medium.com/golden-boys-of-yesteryear-lionel-messi-926a39689f46
Read it
Thats a great analysis. However i dont think that the ones in Mbappe's or CR7's camp like that type of analysis, its way too long and specific. They are more straight forward, like he won a WC/EURO so automatically he's better type of arguments.
Id bet anything that if every pro coach in the world could pick betwen 17-22 year old Messi or Mbappe to feature for 5 seasons on their club, vast majority would pick Messi.
The revisionism regarding Messi's early years can be felt in this thread
People are talking about 17 y.o Messi at a pro level when he only had 9 apps at that age.
Then you have the ballon d'or where Messi seems to become a year younger everytime this discussion is brought up, his fans will claim he had 3 BOs at 21 when he won his first BO at 22 year old and a half.
Messi became a top class player at 20, scoring 16 and assisting 13 in all comps
Messi became an alien at 21, before that he was an extraordinarly talented player but did not have the end product to be compared to Mbappe's freakish 30+ goals 10+ assists seasons
People are talking about 17 y.o Messi at a pro level when he only had 9 apps at that age.
Then you have the ballon d'or where Messi seems to become a year younger everytime this discussion is brought up, his fans will claim he had 3 BOs at 21 when he won his first BO at 22 year old and a half.
Messi became a top class player at 20, scoring 16 and assisting 13 in all comps
Messi became an alien at 21, before that he was an extraordinarly talented player but did not have the end product to be compared to Mbappe's freakish 30+ goals 10+ assists seasons
Last edited:
Well, he's made analysis of several players and they're all well worth a read imo. He also believes Mbappé has been the best player in the world for the past ~2 years, and considers him roughly on the same level of Messi in an 18-22 age comparison, for what it's worth
Ronaldo(Nazario) too
Yeah, all of those great youngsters. R9 particularly is something else, but Messi is close. I just personally think Mbappe is a tier or two below those two, along with dozens of other great youngsters.
I liked the write up, and I’ve just finished the Rooney and Owen ones. I agree with a lot of what he says, and disagree with a lot too (especially his writings on Owen). I’ll probably read the Mbappe one next
The bolded I can’t agree with at all, though I think he is WC
Are some Liverpool fans still claiming they’re buying him
No chance on this earth he ends up at the scousers.
The Mbappé one is coming in 2022
The Mbappé one is coming in 2022
Ah that’s a shame! I’m really enjoying reading them, and I’d like to see what he writes about Kylian.
Well I wasn't thinking of anybody's specific opinion, he is to me, it's obviously a pointless debate because everybody has different criterias, but I think he will be the general consensus for his generation and the ones that come after until someone combines everything he had and wins more titles internationally. This being said, being second or third all-time and we got to see that, it's a gift.
What's the best decison for Mbappe do you think?
Being 2nd fiddle to Benzema or 3rd fiddle to Messi/Neymar?
Being 2nd fiddle to Benzema or 3rd fiddle to Messi/Neymar?
He should go to Madrid and capitalise on the fact that Barcelona have no Messi. He can be the difference and the reason Madrid are dominant for years
Have fun for a year with those two while having a good chance at the CL then cash in an obscene signing bonus next summer.
Now that Messi is 99.99% confirmed to be an PSG player according to Fabrizio Romano, Mbappe will certainly reach peak Luis Suarez numbers with Messi & Neymar behind him.
Mbappe will likely extend his deal if PSG ends Up winning UCL
Mbappe will likely extend his deal if PSG ends Up winning UCL
I cannot see him leaving this year. He would want to play with Messi for a year and try win the CL. Although, brand Mbappe will take a hit as everything will be Messi now.
[Loïc Tanzi] Nasser Al-Khelaifi: "Mbappé said he wanted a competitive team, you can't have a more competitive one. He has no excuses for doing anything but stay."
It was said during Messi's presser as an official PSG player
---------------
I can't imbed a source from Tanzi's tweet due to lack of likes, sorry
It was said during Messi's presser as an official PSG player
---------------
I can't imbed a source from Tanzi's tweet due to lack of likes, sorry
Apparently he's the only player at PSG who didn't like any of the club's publications in Instagram in regards with Messi's signing, 10 in total.
A "exclusive" ( if you believe it), from the guys at Transfer Window Podcast. Its their information that liverpool intend to offer Mbappe a deal for next summer when hes a free agent. Liverpool are willing to break their wage structure to accommodate him. The sweetener on the deal is a clause for Mbappe to leave after 2-3 years to go play in la liga.
The idea is that Mbappe plays 2-3 years in PL before moving to la liga when Madrid/Barcelona should both have stronger squads.
Apparently Mbappe would only consider two clubs in PL, liverpool and Manchester United and two in la liga i.e. Madrid and Barcelona (obviously the latter has money issues at moment). So theres no reason why the deal that Liverpool offer Mbappe, Manchester Utd couldnt offer as well.
Anyway as i said, up to you if you choose to entertain the idea or not.
The idea is that Mbappe plays 2-3 years in PL before moving to la liga when Madrid/Barcelona should both have stronger squads.
Apparently Mbappe would only consider two clubs in PL, liverpool and Manchester United and two in la liga i.e. Madrid and Barcelona (obviously the latter has money issues at moment). So theres no reason why the deal that Liverpool offer Mbappe, Manchester Utd couldnt offer as well.
Anyway as i said, up to you if you choose to entertain the idea or not.
I also saw a unicorn on my way home from work.
Never laughed so hard in all my life.
Booed as name read out
PSG fans take no prisoners.
Yes let's boo a world class player so he stays.
.Yes let's boo a world class player so he stays
Can't single out PSG fans for that, it's happened to many players at many clubs.
Half boos and half cheers.Yes let's boo a world class player so he stays
TBF to them, he's leaving for Madrid, either now or next year, their input wouldn't change a thing.Yes let's boo a world class player so he stays
Apparently he favors coming to Utd but we’ve made no approach. He’ll end up at Madrid - even if we go in for him we probably won’t offer half the wages they do and you can understand him wanting to follow the money.