The systematic racism is that Antonio's words are being amplified, but not Kirkland's. Both should have kept their mouths shut, both talked, only Antonio is being slated. Don't you think that's weird? White guy says animal abuse is worse than human abuse, black guy says human abuse is worse than animal abuse, only the black guy gets hounded.
Kurt Zouma / 180 hours community service + banned from keeping cats for 5 years
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
Out of the thousands of incidents, you can cite two, there maybe a few more, but it's a sliver of what should be happening
The answer he should have given was "yes", not make some half-assed excuse using racism.
Sometimes different stories gain more traction than others for no reason at all other than momentum. I do think there is systematic racism however but I doubt this is an example of it. People usually talk about the latest thing & the latest thing in the back & forth with Kirkland & Antonio was Antonio's comments. Kirkland also backtracked and took back his initial stupid comment 3 days ago.
Or "no", because looking at the precedents of human abuse, its a minor infraction. Or do you think one cat is worth more than millions, billions of people of colour?
Why did the FA get involved with Cavani then?
Zouma should be charged with bringing the game into disripute, same as Cavani, and banned for three games as what he did is far worse than Cavani's so-called racism.
The systematic racism I'm referring to is the difference in traction between the Antonio and Kirkland comments
That's a pretty strange take. I'm not going to compare racism to animal abuse but if I were to try and draw a comparison it'd be pretty stupid to say "hey, let's compare 1 incident of animal abuse and stack it up against the entire human history of racial abuse". That's not how comparisons are made. That's like me saying the dollar is worth more than the pound because in my example I have all the dollars in the world vs just one pound.
They shouldn't have, but if one innocent person goes to jail, does that mean every next criminal should be executed?
What Zouma did had nothing to do with football, at least in Cavanis case, they were talking about football
Which, if you look into my full response, could be attributited to many factors. A difference in traction isn't proof of systematic racism, just as it isn't proof of an absence of systematic racism. We can't know for sure what the cause is.
It's got feck all to do with human abuse or "millions/billions of people of colour". It is purely about animal cruelty by a footballer, you and others like you trying to change the subject are doing the cause of anti-racism no good at all.
Isn't this often a very clumsily formulated way of asking someone about their heritage? Like, I know a lot of Belgians who have Congolese ancestry. They are often very proud of that.
Off course, if the reasoning behind it is: he's black, so he's not a "real" Briton, then that's a whole other story...
Or you could ask Raheem Sterling, Marcus Rashford or any other black footballer. Kirkland basically implied cats are more valuable than people of colour, Antonio asked if that was the case.
So if someone racially abuses someone, are they abusing the person or the race?
Ask them what? Also, that's one hell of a leap.
I guess you don't follow social media.
If they think there is systematic racism in the media. Is it, he said animal abuse was worse than racial abuse
No he didn't. Stop it. He was saying that it should be looked at on same level.
It seems to me that you think racism only is towards people of colour when basiclly racism can be towards anyone, regardlesx of colour.
None of you guys on here having a go at Antonio are having a go at Kirkland. Both said inflammatory things, but you choose the black guy to focus on, is your surname Kirkland?
Firstly, everyone is of colour, I've had a go at people of my colour being racist to white people. And no, racial abuse is above animal abuse, because only one cat got hurt, whereas millions of people get hurt by each and every racial slur. If I hear someone being racist in the street to someone else, I'm hurt, even though it wasn't directed at me, I'm fairly sure no other cats were hurt with Zouma's video
Well I wasn't aware I'd entered a challenge to find them all.
More seriously, I'm not in a position to talk about how often people are charged. I'm not sure they even keep stats specifically related to football related racist incidents. Would tell us a lot more.
Why would I care what they think? I literally started out by saying I believe there's systematic racism. I just don't believe that the coverage of Antonio's comments is proof of it. Also, he weirdly said he thinks that in some way it's worse because the animals don't have a voice to stand up for themselves. His comments were obviously not well thought out and clumsy but if you truly believe Kirkland thinks cats are more valuable than black people then you're lying to yourself for the sake of getting angry over racism.
Well, if you can you've got a chance to win a signed copy of Mein Kampf...Well I wasn't aware I'd entered a challenge to find them all.
More seriously, I'm not in a position to talk about how often people are charged. I'm not sure they even keep stats specifically related to football related racist incidents. Would tell us a lot more.
I'm just saying that one incident has caused a week long uproar, whereas racist incidents happen weekly without any uproar
Kind of answering your own thoughts here. If a team wins a world cup final everyone gets in a furore about it even though hundreds of pub teams win hundreds of pub football matches every week.
Fine, Kirkland says its equal, are you saying one footballer assaulting one cat is the same as thousands of footballers abusing thousands of footballers?
That is just something you think. Neither you or me know how pet lovers feel or don't feel about their fourlegged family members. There are people that loves animals more than humans. And that is ok looking at how humans can be towards eachother.
I've been on the wrong side of racial abuse. For me, I didn't got hurt. I understand everybody react differently. Just thought to myself that I feel sorry for people who are that stupid to hate someone that is not like them.
No. I've not even come close to saying anything remotely like that.
Oh, cos racism is everywhere people of colour should just shut up and take it?
No.. again, stop putting words into people's mouths. The rarity of the Zouma issue is a contributing factor to the reaction. When's the last time you saw a video of a footballer with a thigh the size of your whole body drop-kicking their pet cat across their room?
I have a cat that I am slave to, I know how pet lovers feel, because I am one. People can love who they want, but not at the expense of abusing others. Humans abusing humans is not OK, even if you like pets more
I haven't before, but I've seen hundreds of racist incidents and no one seems to care about those.
Kirkland is saying that the first ever incident of footballer animal abuse should be treated with the same weight as the nth footballer racist incident, ban all the racists first, then talk about banning Zouma, what he did was unprecedented, so it could be taken as a one off. There's nothing to say Zouma has done this before, but plenty of evidence of repeat racist offenders in football.
A week isn't even that long really when you consider the story contains a decently high profile player with video evidence. The Alli and Cavani incidents went on for a couple of weeks as well.
Sorry for the belated reply - I had to deal with...a plumbing issue (don't ask - but it wasn't me, it was my feckin' upstairs neighbour).
Anyway - sure, I understand, no worries. It's an extremely sensitive subject, anything anyone says here can be taken the wrong way.
Was anyone saying either of those guys should be banned for life or jailed? I can't remember the Alli one, but the whole Cavani thing was talked about so much because the FA got it wrong, it was neither a case of abuse and it had nothing to do with football. Its the extreme level of vitriol that those who've been racially abused and seen no outcry that are flummoxed.
I bought up the Griezmann Dembele video earlier, that was racism, done on social media, mainly by a black guy, but supported by a white guy with a history of blackface, both were £100mn+ players and there's been nothing like the talk about it. Even on here, where both have been touted as potential signings. I don't care the colour of the abusive person and I don't care about the race (or species) of the victim, I care about the frequency of this publicised abuse and I think punishment should be set accordingly.
Racism is prevalent in football and wider society, animal abuse in wider society only, ergo both football and wider society should be clamping down on racism (which they haven't) and wider society should be clamping down on animal abuse, in which they unfortunately have expertise.
And fir anyone thinking that the cat would have been listened to "if it could speak", people of colour have been speaking for years, to no avail. If you don't believe me, ask @The Cat... (sorry mate, I couldn't help it!)
Not referring to normal People being fired, people get fired all the time for a number of reasons. Whether its worth him being fired for the abuse of his pet, I guess that will be down to peoples own moral compass.
Maybe 75,000 fans singing the Park chant doesn’t count…..?
A lot of this thread can actually be summed up with that gif of Britta from Community.
No there isn’t.
Yes there is. It’s rude, racist and dismissive of their actual, factual citizenship.
Just as there’s something very wrong with you trying to tell other people how they should feel about their lived experience - vs your daft, ignorant opinion of how they should feel.
You try telling someone who’s been born in England, to English parents, spent their entire life living and working and paying taxes as an English citizen that that ‘isn’t where they’re from originally’, and quite rightly you’ll be told to get fecked.
Do it enough or to the wrong person and you’ll probably end up getting a smack.
It’s that kind of attitude that equals the fat, thick, repulsive ‘ingurland’ slobs who abuse Rashford, Saka etc into thinking that they’re ‘more British’ than them - or that the black players are somehow not REALLY apart of the England team.
Try asking Rashford ‘where are you from originally?’ if you ever meet him.