100% this.
Kurt Zouma / 180 hours community service + banned from keeping cats for 5 years
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
100% this.
The plot thickens.
Normal people get fired for this type of thing. I guess that highlights the upside of not being famous.
If you ever wanted an example of how tribal football is, then read the replies to this tweet. Seems nothing is off limits for some football fans.
Ahhhh….. West Ham apparently misquoted.
Poor West Ham
Poor West Ham
Fine him - Tick
Take his pets away - Tick
I would like to see him charged, because It was a despicable criminal act of animal cruelty he took part in, I also would have preferred a bigger fine, he was fined 2 weeks wages, Simon Jordan states the max fine can be 6 weeks, in which case that’s what it should have been, it should have been the absolute max
other than that I think he’ll have suffered a good enough authoritive punishment, his public punishment will continue for a very long time yet.
football wise, there’s no reason I can see why things can’t move forward. Only the media and public heat can determine wether actually…..he should be taken out of the public spot light, but I think he’s passed the worst of that “media” heat. West Ham messed up because he should have been taken out of that spotlight during the first game since the incident, he shouldn’t have been in the squad, but he was, and that moment of outrage has probably already passed now.
theres of course still outrage, but nothing like at that moment of disaster in West Ham’s decision making.
Its now more seemingly about Moyes and club quotes.
Take his pets away - Tick
I would like to see him charged, because It was a despicable criminal act of animal cruelty he took part in, I also would have preferred a bigger fine, he was fined 2 weeks wages, Simon Jordan states the max fine can be 6 weeks, in which case that’s what it should have been, it should have been the absolute max
other than that I think he’ll have suffered a good enough authoritive punishment, his public punishment will continue for a very long time yet.
football wise, there’s no reason I can see why things can’t move forward. Only the media and public heat can determine wether actually…..he should be taken out of the public spot light, but I think he’s passed the worst of that “media” heat. West Ham messed up because he should have been taken out of that spotlight during the first game since the incident, he shouldn’t have been in the squad, but he was, and that moment of outrage has probably already passed now.
theres of course still outrage, but nothing like at that moment of disaster in West Ham’s decision making.
Its now more seemingly about Moyes and club quotes.
Hope to see this feature in FM23. Being able to donate to a charity because your thick player fecked up.
Thank you. I was banned for that but whatever. Redcafe is not the place for critical thinking.
My point was very clear, zouma deserves what he is getting but how come when Suarez, greizmann over blackface which is racism who wasn’t even dropped from the national team but zouma is going to be didn’t get this sort of punishment? Its a legit question to ask adidas and the these corporations? What message does it send out to black people? There are so many other examples I’ve left out.
People being very dismissive as usual when it comes to matters of racism. Some even being obtuse saying animal cruelty has nothing to do with racism which is true but mackierobinson has carefully pointed out the connection for why we are bringing it up. Last comment I will make on this matter because I really don’t have the energy.
It is about whataboutism. He was asked about Zouma and cat. Answer or don’t and drive away. Don’t talk about racism and what might be worse. What Kirkland did was putting it in a context regarding suspensions.
I like how you want to point out someone is white. Why? Why does colour matter?
So. Talk is talk. Action is action. What a club.
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Isn’t that the exact same thing Antonio did? He was asked if Zouma deserves a stronger punishment and replied that he doesn’t, given the punishments handed out to those guilty of racist abuse. Whether you agree with his summary or not, surely that’s contextualising the incident. It seems strange to get annoyed at Antonio for answering a direct question then in the next instance excuse Kirkland who made the comparison without provocation. People just love to get wound up at the mention of racism from a black person.
You don’t need to be a psychologist to understand that cases like Cavani and Sebastian Coltescu are detrimental to the cause. Now you can add Zouma too. The vast majority of people who are sane know that those two cases were nothing but incompetence from the authorities, but imagine the reaction of actual racists, that will do nothing but fuel their anger even more.
Actually not. Kirkland was taking about TheFA and suspensions for bad things from players. Why they don’t give any suspensions in cases regarding abuse. Abusing animals or humans in every way should not matter if you want to look good from outside. Antonio tried to somehow shift focus from animal abuse to that it is not a serious as racism when he put out the question to journalist. When he did that, he automaticlly showed his stance.
Or perhaps Sarah the teacher?
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/prim...f-woman-kicking-and-punching-a-horse-12501125
So it’s ok for Kirkland to say that harsher punishments should be given for abuse as it’s worse than racism but when Antonio says Zouma doesn’t deserve a harsher punishment than he’s been given, considering the weak punishments handed out for racism it’s ‘whataboutism’ ? That doesn’t make any sense, they’re both doing the same thing but with opposite stances.
I have two cats. One raised as a kitten and one who we took in after he had been abused in the past.
The one raised as a kitten is the most calm and peaceful cat, scared of nothing and just the most loveable pet.
The abused one still wakes up in fear if I do as little as getting up from the couch. It took many years and he's become a very peaceful cat too, but these past traumas never go away. Abuse a cat and you'll ruin it for life. It's very hard and a long process to make abused cats trust humans again.
This thread should be popping up in the PC gon mad... thread I guess. We've now got people dictating what can and can't be spoken about (in any context it seems). Is the mere conversation that controversial or triggering? For some....
Honestly, feck the racists that get in their feelings, vast majority are going to continue being racist regardless...
Harsher? Zouma didn’t get any punishment. He is free to play. From both TheFA and WestHam. That is why Antonio is wrong in what he said. Both (racism and abuse of animals) are wrong and should have been looked on with same eyes.
The question Antonio was answering was 'do you think Zouma deserves harsher punishment than what he's already had?'
It's a weird one. A part of me would like to see him face a jail sentence but then the suffering farm animals, particularly pigs and chickens endure on a daily basis just so we can have some nomnoms makes what he did pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. We just think cats are family so we care more about one cat being abused but then turn a blind eye to the horrors of farming
I have never liked Moyes but the more he speaks, the more it highlights what a dick he really is. Doesn't give a ****.
So glad he got a rough ride at our club, nasty piece of work.
So glad he got a rough ride at our club, nasty piece of work.
Last I heard Zouma has been fined a quarter of a million pounds.
Then why are we doing all these anti racism campaigns? To make those of us who are not racist even more not racist?
Those racial incidents were on the football pitch, Cavani aside, so the FA getting involved is like the HR department or Ombudsman getting involved but not passing it on to the police, I can't think of any footballer prosecuted for on pitch racism.
Zouma's animal abuse was outside of football and has been referred to the police, the FA have no sway there. West Ham have fined him, more than most FA fines, and they didn't even have to do that. Plus, he still might be charged, despite what Dominic Raab says, the police do look back at crimes.
And why is Antonio wrong and Kirkland right? Do you think animal abuse in someone's own home is worse than racial abuse in front of millions of people?
Personally, I think Zouma should be prosecuted, but so should have Terry, Suarez, Big Ron, Emre Belözoğlu, Di Canio, Wayne Hennessy, Peter Beardsley, Bernardo Silva, Kiko Casilla and every racist fan.
What are you talking about? You were in a round about way saying posters should try not to trigger the racists, as if that matters... What makes racist people start to question their racism is talking about it, exposure to other cultures in person, education, not shutting the feck up on the internet out of fear of winding them up...
He is wrong because he should just stick with answering question. Simple. If We were talking about racism I wouldn’t want anybody bringing up other important issue like global warming. There is time and place for everything. Kirkland brought it up in discussion about suspensions. Antonio answered the question with the question because what he thought about the issue.
When did I say anything about the forum? I was making a point regarding the high profile cases of Cavani and Coltescu who were wrongly accused of racism. What people discuss on a niche forum won’t change a damn thing for better or worse.
The shelters are filling up rapidly with COVID pets.
I think many different cultures have different understanding of pets. My Aunt visited us from abroad and
Under what grounds.....?
Antonio was asked about whether it deserved more punishment and replied, Kirkland came out with it unprovoked. If anything, the lack of attention to Kirkland's comments compared to Antonio's does kinda evidence the systematic racism.
Terry did end up in court.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Terry
There are quite a lot of things that players do on a football pitch that you could get charged for off it but aren't.
On a side note, a lot of the discussion in the thread seems to be comparing the punishments some people are calling for with the end result of other incidents which is a bit disingenuous.
You aren't making any sense defending Kirkland's comments yet repudiating Antonio's. Extremely weird distinction you trying to make...
Not 100% sure I understand the question.
If you're referring to normal people being fired, in this thread it's already been pointed out a woman was fired for hitting a horse.
There’s nothing wrong with being foreign - if you are.
There’s something VERY wrong with asking people who’ve been born in England, likely to English parents, where they’re ‘originally from’.
My question for you is this - do you view non-white Brits as British? And do you view them as being from Britain?
Terry got referred for something on the pitch, hence he was banned, Zouma got referred because of something off the pitch, so it's got nothing to do with the FA. Long and short of it is, both were referred to the police, let them do their job, don't ask the FA to get involved for no reason.
Should maybe have made it clear I was responding to that part.
In terms of being banned for off the field things off the top of my head Cavani and Alli were two cases in recent years.
To be fair though, Terry was one of thousands of racial incidents in and around football, if he's the only one to be referred (not prosecuted), it's not exactly a good look for the state of race relations in football in this country
Come on. What systematic racism? Kirkland wanted this to be on level with racism and wanted TheFA to take same messaures. Antonio could have answered ”No need to be more” or ”He needs to get more”. He don’t have to Ask question about something else that has nothing to do with animal abuse.
He's definitely not the only one, some guy did got to prison after posting a video of himself singing a racist chant after the euros. Whether or not there's been enough taken forward I wouldn't know.