Kurt Zouma / 180 hours community service + banned from keeping cats for 5 years

AFC NimbleThumb said:
Nice try @hobbers but labelling Greece & Turkey in their entirety [‘held in different regard in different parts of the world’, don’t backtrack now lad.] as nations that treat cats as vermin isn’t quite the same as labelling the intent of a poster. You need educating in the plural & the singular.

So let’s unpack this. . .



‘It’s absolutely not because he’s black’ because ‘a white woman was fired from her job for striking a horse’ whilst the forum was in meltdown ‘over the Suarez & John Terry racist incidents’. That is whitesplaining 101.

Now had you actually read the posts which you wouldn’t have as you just wanted to give rise to the ‘This is Britain’ rhetoric [fyi, we know] you’d have seen I said. . .



But it’s not really about facts @hobbers is it. ‘whitesplainers’ would imply multiple uses to multiple people which hasn’t happened so we can also see you’re a liar now as well.

As for being ignorant to their backgrounds it’s funny that you saw the word ‘whitesplaining’ but missed this part of the discussion. . .



Do better. You chimed in with a quip because your views aligned & labelled 2 nations as something in their entirety which would make you Xenophobic? a Bigot? a Rac[ah never mind] so wear your cap fitttingly & educate yourself on those things firstly.
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Your persistence in using the racist term "whitesplaining" actually makes YOU the racist one... but you're clearly too caught up in your own agenda that you simply can't see this. Believe it or not, white people are allowed to disagree with you and tell you why they think your opinion is wrong. When we're constantly being linked to racism in situations where absolutely none actually exists, you better expect that we're going to push back against it, preferably without being further accused of even more racism for doing so... all people like yourself achieve is to undermine actual REAL racism. That really what you want? I honestly don't know anymore what the objective is for some people.

Can't quite tell if you're just trying to troll/provoke... but if you are totally for real, I would advise that you really need to stop watching so much CNN and probably get out more into the real world.
 
I’m going to enjoy this.

reuben290 said:
Your persistence in using the racist term "whitesplaining" actually makes YOU the racist one...
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I cited a poster for ‘whitesplaining’, persistence would be to use the term in a blanket way. You know kind of like saying all Greeks & Turkish people see cats as vermin, funny how that’s not drawn your ire. If you believe that term makes me a racist racist you’re a [criticise the post not the poster].

reuben290 said:
Believe it or not, white people are allowed to disagree with you and tell you why they think your opinion is wrong.
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Cite where I say white people aren’t allowed to do anything, let alone disagree. I don’t expect anything from a group based on their complexion. Another person that needs help on the plural & singular.
reuben290 said:
When we're constantly being linked to racism in situations where absolutely none actually exists, you better expect that we're going to push back against it, preferably without being further accused of even more racism for doing so...
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What in the victim complex is this meant to mean. Push back against what exactly? You’ve called me a racist. You’re taking my views on one post by another poster a tad personally, it’s almost as if you’re walking round with said chip on your shoulder.

If you step back from palming your keyboard for a few moments & go back to read some posts you’d see I actually dismiss race in this issue from my perspective. . .
AFC NimbleThumb said:
I don’t think kicking this cat has particularly been about race
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But let’s not let facts spoil a good old tirade.
reuben290 said:
all people like yourself achieve is to undermine actual REAL racism.
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I always like this one. What is ‘REAL racism’?

Remember, I’ve not called anyone racist in this thread. I’ve only used the word ‘whitesplain’ about one post by one poster.
reuben290 said:
Can't quite tell if you're just trying to troll/provoke... but if you are totally for real, I would advise that you really need to stop watching so much CNN and probably get out more into the real world.
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I take it you watch quite abit if FOX News.

Now having sifted through the faux outrage & misinterpretation I’m unsure whether to file this under wilful ignorance or an inability to comprehend at more than a Primary level.

AFC NimbleThumb said:
throwing around terms such as racist/racism shouldn’t be done lightly.
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reuben290 said:
Your persistence in using the racist term "whitesplaining" actually makes YOU the racist one... but you're clearly too caught up in your own agenda that you simply can't see this. Believe it or not, white people are allowed to disagree with you and tell you why they think your opinion is wrong. When we're constantly being linked to racism in situations where absolutely none actually exists, you better expect that we're going to push back against it, preferably without being further accused of even more racism for doing so... all people like yourself achieve is to undermine actual REAL racism. That really what you want? I honestly don't know anymore what the objective is for some people.

Can't quite tell if you're just trying to troll/provoke... but if you are totally for real, I would advise that you really need to stop watching so much CNN and probably get out more into the real world.
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Don't waste your time mate. People claimed the extreme reaction to Zouma was because he's black, I provided examples of more severe reactions to white people for similar offenses and all of a sudden it's *Reeeeeee stop whitesplaining*. People can't handle being wrong.
 
MichaelRed said:
Don't waste your time mate. People claimed the extreme reaction to Zouma was because he's black, I provided examples of more severe reactions to white people for similar offenses and all of a sudden it's *Reeeeeee stop whitesplaining*. People can't handle being wrong.
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Here comes the Boogeyman. . .
AFC NimbleThumb said:
I don’t think kicking this cat has particularly been about race
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AFC NimbleThumb said:
At no point have I assumed you are anything. I could care less about your complexion, throwing around terms such as racist/racism shouldn’t be done lightly.
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FreddieTheReddie said:
I hope if my grandchildren will grow up in England they won’t feel offended by this question, and proudly answer “yes, my grandmother is Hungarian and my granfather is Jamaican”. Probably won’t happen but it sucks to be ashamed of your ancestry. All of my grandparents were poor peasants and I’m proud of them.
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They’ll be from England though, mate.

It’s a different question being asked - ‘where are your grandparents from?’.

It’s deeply ignorant to ask someone who was born in England - ‘where are YOU from originally’. It’s undermining the fact that they are English and trying to insist some kind of foreign otherness upon them that isn’t there.
 
My cat follows me to work, people sometimes stop and ask if that’s my cat as they’re amazed he’s just walking side by side with me.

He cramps my style, I hate it.
 
Lay said:
My cat follows me to work, people sometimes stop and ask if that’s my cat as they’re amazed he’s just walking side by side with me.

He cramps my style, I hate it.
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What do you mean "people", that sounds kind of racist and entitled tbh. I'll forward this post to Antonio to bring it up next time Zouma slaps his dog.
 
People seriously saying Zouma deserves to go to jail over this? Give him a fine, some amount of hours of community service, take his cat away, and move on.
 
Ofcourse westham were never going to drop him. He's their best defender and one of their biggest asset, he's vital for them and they need him if they are to finish in a European spot.

Now, I wonder if this incident happened to one of their lesser known players, would they have dropped him? I think so.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
It's funny. Why doesn't he create outrage on those issues he cites if he believes they're so important instead of using them to play this down ? I'm vegetarian myself so actually agree with those examples but not in using them to excuse others.
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I mean, he literally does. His channel is entirely about the subject.

Also two things can be bad at the same time. The point is that people are socialised into not recognising their hypocrisy and suffer from cognitive dissonance when discussing it.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
They’ll be from England though, mate.

It’s a different question being asked - ‘where are your grandparents from?’.

It’s deeply ignorant to ask someone who was born in England - ‘where are YOU from originally’. It’s undermining the fact that they are English and trying to insist some kind of foreign otherness upon them that isn’t there.
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Is it really? Or is that just your impression of the situation?

What's wrong with having "some kind of foreign otherness" and why is being English better?
 
I have pets and was raging when I read what he did.I’m glad they took the cats off him, the fine was apt punishment and that should be the end of it, I don’t believe he should be fired from West Ham for his actions.
I hope the animal charity can make good use of the 250k or whatever it was.
I hope they change the laws so that animals are more protected.
 
Lay said:
My cat follows me to work, people sometimes stop and ask if that’s my cat as they’re amazed he’s just walking side by side with me.

He cramps my style, I hate it.
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My 1st cat used to follow me to the bridge near the top of my street then run back home, still remember when she didn’t stop & walked all the way to the top a few metres behind with no intention of stopping so I had to pick her up to carry her about 5 minutes back to the house.

He doesn’t cramp your style, he is your style.
 
kouroux said:
I don't get it either. What he did was despicable for sure but spending time in jail for it would be overkill for me
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I don't think they are to many who would want him to go to jail. I do understand those who have pets and are feeling that way. But I wouldn't. With saying that he should have been at least suspended by West Ham for a game or two. What West Ham is doing is pretty much accepting what he did and they could have easily avoided all this by taking some stance. Now someone will say that he has been fined. To fine a multi-milionaire with that sum is like taking one peanut from a giant peanut bag. Doesn't do to much.

Then you have Antonio with some whataboutism and nonsens about racism that put more fuel to the fire.
 
Do people really want Zouma banned for kicking a cat that wasn’t hurt?
Was what he did a despicable thing to do? Absolutely.
Should he be punished? Definitely.
Has he been appropriately punished? I think so. Having the RSPCA remove all animals from your home, being fined thousands of pounds and being justfiably demonised in the press and social media. I think that’s enough.
Of course, what he did was wrong, but as far as I’ve heard, the cat has suffered no permanent damage, I think it’s been blown out of all proportion and West Ham have handled it well.
As for those who have tried to bring race into it, wise up!
 
DON’T PANIC ™ said:
Do people really want Zouma banned for kicking a cat that wasn’t hurt?
Was what he did a despicable thing to do? Absolutely.
Should he be punished? Definitely.
Has he been appropriately punished? I think so. Having the RSPCA remove all animals from your home, being fined thousands of pounds and being justfiably demonised in the press and social media. I think that’s enough.
Of course, what he did was wrong, but as far as I’ve heard, the cat has suffered no permanent damage, I think it’s been blown out of all proportion and West Ham have handled it well.
As for those who have tried to bring race into it, wise up!
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How do you know it wasn't hurt either physically or traumatised mentally ?
 
Peter van der Gea said:
Actually, research shows 8 out of ten cats prefer...

This thread is great, veganism, race riots, the lot! I'm fairly sure Godwin's Law was achieved quite early on. Chris Kirkland must be laughing into his goalkeeper gloves. I'm surprised no one's bought up Antoine Griezmann and Ousmane Dembele yet, racism, social media and footballers!
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I think your research is wrong and I challenge you to produce the data!!

My study was peer-reviewed!
 
hobbers said:
Cats and pets in general are obviously held in different regard in different parts of the world, something that's pretty clear from a few responses in this thread and by those who acknowledged that Britain has a particular affinity for pets and hold them in higher regard than pretty much anywhere else.
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This is true. During the evacuation of Afghanistan, Britain were bringing their animals home and leaving staff and citizens behind to face the Taliban.
 
I agree he shouldn’t go to prison and that, generally, he has been punished enough off the pitch. However, surely he should be charged with bringing the game into disrepute and banned for a few matches by the FA?
 
DON’T PANIC ™ said:
This is true. During the evacuation of Afghanistan, Britain were bringing their animals home and leaving staff and citizens behind to face the Taliban.
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To be fair, wasn't that mostly that one dude who ran that shelter?

Most people I know thought it was mental they prioritised that over getting more people out. I think the guy involved had some kind of political influence though.
 
There are so many posters on this forum that can’t seem to hack being challenged on anything, whether it be eating meat or whether racism plays a part in how we judge people. They almost seem like ‘a bunch of snowflakes’ to be honest.
 
90 + 5min said:
I don't think they are to many who would want him to go to jail. I do understand those who have pets and are feeling that way. But I wouldn't. With saying that he should have been at least suspended by West Ham for a game or two. What West Ham is doing is pretty much accepting what he did and they could have easily avoided all this by taking some stance. Now someone will say that he has been fined. To fine a multi-milionaire with that sum is like taking one peanut from a giant peanut bag. Doesn't do to much.

Then you have Antonio with some whataboutism and nonsens about racism that put more fuel to the fire.
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Tbf, there have been a number of posters on here saying that he should go to jail, and this is a football forum. Non footy fans have also been saying it. If he deserves jail, that's down to the police and the RSPCA, it has nothing to do with the FA. Personally, I think racism on the pitch should be referred to the police rather than being dealt with by the FA, because racism is a criminal offence.

Antonio was replying to Chris Kirkland saying that what Zouma was worse than racism. His quote is a direct reply, people should be having a go at Kirkland, not Antonio, about bringing up racism and "whataboutism".

The conversation here should be about Zouma and his cat. However, it's become about racism, because a white guy, who has basically been ignored for his bringing racism into the conversation, bought it up. Then a black teammate is asked about that point of view, then he is castigated for whataboutism.

All the characters in this incident have been castigated thoroughly, other than the one white guy. Whilst I, slave to a cat called Boo, personally believe that the RSPCA and police should give Zouma as great of a punishment as is valid, this thread has shown that systematic racism is live and well when comparing the backlash received by Antonio compared to Kirkland.
 
90 + 5min said:
I don't think they are to many who would want him to go to jail. I do understand those who have pets and are feeling that way. But I wouldn't. With saying that he should have been at least suspended by West Ham for a game or two. What West Ham is doing is pretty much accepting what he did and they could have easily avoided all this by taking some stance. Now someone will say that he has been fined. To fine a multi-milionaire with that sum is like taking one peanut from a giant peanut bag. Doesn't do to much.

Then you have Antonio with some whataboutism and nonsens about racism that put more fuel to the fire.
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Antonio shouldn't have talked at all. He mixed different subjects altogether. West Ham should have suspended him for sure, it shows at a certain level, money will always prevail
 
kouroux said:
Antonio shouldn't have talked at all. He mixed different subjects altogether. West Ham should have suspended him for sure, it shows at a certain level, money will always prevail
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It was Chris Kirkland who did that, Antonio replied.
 
It is not a great move from Kurt Zouma and hopefully it was an isolated incident. You never like seeing animal get hurt but really all this is way over the top reaction. I thought the video would be worse based on the medias reaction. The kick is hard but controlled and chasing a cat round a house and throwing items at it from that far is like throwing a shoe at a fly at 5 meters, no chance of hitting it. Not as bad as drink driving which could kill a human. overhyped... move on... a non story compared to what goes in to the meat industry or how we treat some humans. Take his cat away, fine him out of principal end of!
 
SuperiorXI said:
Not always, the system in many countries is not fool-proof in putting the deserved behind bars. Rich people get away with all sorts of shit, sometimes even poor people get away with heinous crimes when they shouldn't have.


The thing is no one can control what 'Joe Bloggs' posts on their twitter feed, anyone can say whatever they want, institutions need to deal with this the best they can... this is nothing new. West Ham have not dealt with this well at all, they have chosen to play someone that abused an animal. What did you think was going to happen? The reaction wasn't going to be good.
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I have no issue with Joe Bloggs having a differing opinion. I have an issue with the entitlement of Joe Bloggs, who now seems to think that it is reasonable for him to not only disagree with such a decision, but to ‘not accept’ such a decision, and insist it is changed. Usually after threatening the institution involved with some sort of action or another until they do what Joe Bloggs has decided should be done.

I mean, Moyes played him. So what? It’s not that Zouma has not been punished. His transgression had nothing to do with football, and people are only insisting he is not picked for the team so that they have a tangible punishment that THEY (they being largely irrelevant people who should not ordinarily be considered when making a decision on how to punish Zouma) can see, so that they are sated. Not everything is about the feelings if Joe the plumber. A man abused a cat, has lost his cats, and has been fined. Which can happen in isolation anywhere in the land. The man’s employer using him at work, perhaps because they feel they need him, is up to them, and does not mean he has ‘gotten away with it’. But it’s just not a ‘demonstration’ enough for the randoms.

As I said, people need to be reminded that Twitter doesn’t equal some sort of democracy on every subject where one tweet equals one vote. Ultimately, they can have a view on what happens to Zouma, but they have no say in what happens to Zouma. And why on Earth would or should they? I must say I am very surprised at Moyes and West Ham, as usually with things like this, people are bullied by retweet, with the club now doing a ‘U-turn’ and issuing an apology to all the Joe publics who disapprove of how they have carried out an internal process. It is refreshing for Moyes to simply say ‘the club will deal with Zouma the way they see fit’ in the face of such pressure. So refreshing. Not everything is a fecking group decision where everyone has a vote. Zouma works for West Ham. The league hasn’t banned him. The cops haven’t arrested him. They are under no obligation to not let him play. And it isn’t ‘play’ as in a rewarded kick-about in the park for being a good boy. It is work, which they need. Perhaps they are satisfied he has shown contrition and it is their satisfaction that matters, not mine or yours.
 
DON’T PANIC ™ said:
This is true. During the evacuation of Afghanistan, Britain were bringing their animals home and leaving staff and citizens behind to face the Taliban.
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and homeless people outnumber stray dogs in any major English city around 100-1. Well actually stray dogs are only stray for about a day here tops before they are showered With love and humans toppling over themselves to better their lives. Personally I think anyone who cankick an animal like that would do far worse things. I wouldn’t trust them with anyone I love after 2 beers for instance. Pretty sure the ability to be cruel to animals (in children) is a warning of major psychological problems. And for good reason. Evil people can do it.
 
Big pet owner but I think the worlds gone mad. Let the RSPA deal with him as they would with anyone but can you imagine that if it was John the builder being fined a months salary and being told he can’t turn up for work? Maybe this is the downside of being famous and in the public eye but it does bring into disrepute how society can either defend or penalise those that are.
 
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