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Kurt Zouma / 180 hours community service + banned from keeping cats for 5 years
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
Yes. I do agree with that. As I say punishments here rarely fit the crime, from this, racism, rape, child abuse.
Absolutely.
It's disappointing that some can't allow the horror of animal abuse to get a bit of much needed media coverage for a few days without immediately trying to get it back to other unacceptable issues in society that get much more coverage.
This story is rightly putting animal abuse in the headlines for a change. Trying to undermine it's importance in comparison to crimes against humans is really disappointing and taking away the one 'positive' that could have been gained from the despicable behaviour.
Because they’re focused on a Rooney stamp from 2006, obviously!
Can't say I disagree.
The world was a different place then.
Any form of abuse is wrong. Perhaps under law racism is worse but in reality it’s all just abuse. Antonio was bringing his own personal opinion into the situation which could only serve to escalate a situation that’s already national news and he should have thought twice before doing that.
No one said it did. Antonio is someone who has been the victim of racist abuse, and he is pointing out clear double standards.
Zouma fined 250k, UEFA fines a club less than 25k for repeated incidents of racism?
He is merely pointing out that football doesn't care about racism
He also said he doesn't condone what Zouma has done, but why should Zouma be sacked when other players are still playing after racist abuse, is what he was asking. That would imply the media thinks animal cruelty is worse, hence his question.
toxic mess again.
Euugh the world is a horrible place
Euugh the world is a horrible place
Suarez banned for 8 games, Cavani 3, the Czech guy against Rangers got about 10. And many more instances where players were rightly banned for racism. How many games has Zouma been banned for? So football doesn't care about animal abuse is the conclusion there. Depends which punishments you focus on / ignore.
I still don’t get it though, most sane people condemn racist abuse and do all we can to stop it, all the campaigns mass protests in cities. All got positive media coverage. People found guilty of racist abuse are almost all handed bans from their respective clubs. Racism is wrong on every level.
Animal abuse is a criminal act, illegal and prosecutable. I’m pretty sure if it was a white player slapping an animal and kicking it across a room in front of their kid the papers would be all over it.
Bizarre reaction from Antonio. We shouldn’t punish animal cruelty? Not sure the point he is trying to make here. West Ham really showing poor leadership.
It's still the wrong argument to make, just like when people are talking about racism against black people, you don't dilute that conversation with racism that non black people face, similarly when the subject is animal abuse you don't have to bring in any other forms of abuse to dilute it.
If he doesn't condone what Zouma did, then that's all he should've said.
Football clearly doesn't really and this is well documented
He was speaking on the call for Zouma to be sacked, which clearly would be a severe punishment for the crime
I'm not sure if you're joking but I hope so. What a weird way for the conversation to go
If you listen to what he said, he was specially speaking on the call for Zouma to be sacked, which would obviously be far worse then any punishment you just mentioned
His point is this incident has had far more attention than racist behaviour.
This has had far too much attention for me but I understand why because it’s been dealt with horrendously. Starting him the day the video came out ffs.
Bringing race into someone abusing an animal as a defence mechanism for their behaviour is absolutely stupid and the behaviour of an arsehole, and I'm not sure how it does anything other than fuel racism either. You don't fight racism by deliberately creating it where it doesn't exist.
Firstly he broke the law and there's a video of him doing it. It doesn't matter what his skin colour is the law doesn't change and there is no grey area in this instance as he is on video physically assaulting a pet cat.
Secondly it's a completely reprehensible piece of behaviour and indicative of someone who thinks it's ok to abuse and inflict cruelty on other lifeforms for their own amusement. It is extremely high up on the scumbag scale.
It's not something you can put down as a cultural misunderstanding or lack of education, it is an act of deliberate and conscious cruelty. It has nothing to do with skin colour and there is no way you come to the conclusion the perpetrator is being victimised unless you're an absolute and complete idiot. If I was caught drop kicking my cat I would fully expect to be immediately sacked from my job and face an animal cruelty charge, and I am white British. It is not a behaviour that there is a defence for.
Antonio has revealed himself to be a complete tosser as well now. Any normal human being upon seeing that video would be unhappy to be in the same football team as Zouma, not immediately play the race card to defend him. All that is achieving is saying to the general populous that for some reason black people should be freely allowed to abuse animals because punishing or criticising them for it is racist.
Firstly he broke the law and there's a video of him doing it. It doesn't matter what his skin colour is the law doesn't change and there is no grey area in this instance as he is on video physically assaulting a pet cat.
Secondly it's a completely reprehensible piece of behaviour and indicative of someone who thinks it's ok to abuse and inflict cruelty on other lifeforms for their own amusement. It is extremely high up on the scumbag scale.
It's not something you can put down as a cultural misunderstanding or lack of education, it is an act of deliberate and conscious cruelty. It has nothing to do with skin colour and there is no way you come to the conclusion the perpetrator is being victimised unless you're an absolute and complete idiot. If I was caught drop kicking my cat I would fully expect to be immediately sacked from my job and face an animal cruelty charge, and I am white British. It is not a behaviour that there is a defence for.
Antonio has revealed himself to be a complete tosser as well now. Any normal human being upon seeing that video would be unhappy to be in the same football team as Zouma, not immediately play the race card to defend him. All that is achieving is saying to the general populous that for some reason black people should be freely allowed to abuse animals because punishing or criticising them for it is racist.
.
In regards to racism, the same thing should apply. Clearly football still has an issue with dealing appropriately with these situations.
Is that not appropriate?
In regards to racism, the same thing should apply. Clearly football still has an issue with dealing appropriately with these situations.
American cities were being burned down for 6 months straight after the death of George Floyd. How can you say racism doesn't get much attention? Every political discussion involes dealing with racism nowadays.
While true, if a top level player in the PL made a racist comment on the pitch now I'm certain there would be an absolute shit storm about it and rightfully so. I've no doubt they'd be sacked once it was confirmed.
Whataboutism is a fallacy and a very slippery slope to down, it doesn't stop and then the conversation becomes about something else entirely.
Will only make this an attention/reaction measuring contest. How does the attention to children dying in warzone compare to attention to racism and how does that compare to animal abuse and how does that compare to genocides? Where do you stop?
Will only make this an attention/reaction measuring contest. How does the attention to children dying in warzone compare to attention to racism and how does that compare to animal abuse and how does that compare to genocides? Where do you stop?
It's surely an issue for West Ham to deal with and any calls for Zouma to be sacked are being derided.
He is a fecking wanker bully for kicking a poor cat though and if sponsors decide they don't want that cowardly thug representing them, who can blame them.
None of this should diminish efforts to tackle racism though. You can understand the frustrations of Antonio if he sees outrage over this but not systemic racism. Ideally we'd kick out racism and animal abuse but sadly the world is full of pricks.
On a side note, that RBS clerk who put that cat in a bin had her life trashed. I wouldn't say Zouma is getting more heat on this cos he's black. That woman was a nobody, not a millionaire footballer.
He is a fecking wanker bully for kicking a poor cat though and if sponsors decide they don't want that cowardly thug representing them, who can blame them.
None of this should diminish efforts to tackle racism though. You can understand the frustrations of Antonio if he sees outrage over this but not systemic racism. Ideally we'd kick out racism and animal abuse but sadly the world is full of pricks.
On a side note, that RBS clerk who put that cat in a bin had her life trashed. I wouldn't say Zouma is getting more heat on this cos he's black. That woman was a nobody, not a millionaire footballer.
Ask him mate.
Very much doubt that (depending on who it is).
Zouma has been punished and is rightly taking heat at the moment.
But people on here are discussing actual punishments, not just what people on social media call for. I was specifically quoting your post comparing the fine for Zouma to a smaller UEFA fine for racism. And you saying that proves football doesn't give out big punishments for racism. I highlighted big punishments they've given out to players in terms of match bans, and pointed out Zouma hasn't received any match ban at all yet.
People on social media are always calling for famous, wealthy people - usually footballers or politicians - to be sacked, jailed, etc, when they do wrong. Comparing what's said on there by random people about Zouma, to what official punishments other people get, is completely false. Those people also faced calls to be sacked, jailed, etc, on social media. It just obviously isn't the concluding punishment. And it won't be for Zouma either. So far he's only faced financial punishment. No suspension, match ban, or anything.
I only replied to comments about Antonios comments, so what he said is clearly what is relevant
We can agree to disagree but for me football has made too many strides in the post-George Floyd/take the knee era. I can't see any club wanting to face the backlash that would come if an incident like Terry/Anton happened in 2022. Media/social media would be all over it, the government would get involved, sponsorships would pull out left, right and centre. It'd be a clusterfeck of all proportions and leave the offender up shit's creek without a paddle (again, rightfully so).
Edit - Talking specifically about the Premier League.
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In hindsight I understand what he’s trying to say. Maybe he didn’t convey his point clearly.
We do have issues with tackling racism but it’s now up to the clubs to hold their hands up and say; look, we’ve got it wrong in regards to historical abuse claims. Obviously the FA should hang their head in shame too.
Saying all that, we absolutely should draw the line under incidents such as these — they’re all vile. Zero tolerance to any sort of serious incidents going forward.
In fairness, going back to the Suarez case his ban was issued 2 months after the offence, largely due to the investigation procedure. In fact, he played in 10 league games after the incident.
I imagine the FA and FIFA will be looking at this and deliberating if there is a rule breach from an FA/FIFA perspective. If not then of course only a criminal/employer sanction can be issued with FA/FIFA imminently amending the rulebooks.
Any threads that ends up with race being discussed often end up that way unfortunately.
This is nuts. They do a kneel before every game for racism. There's a huge campaign in the PL on the matter and while more can/should be done, it has been taken very seriously. In English football at least (not Italy though it seems?).
For every cause, there can be another person claiming their cause should get more attention. It's a pointless cycle of pettiness. Especially when it's the turn of another cause to be in the spotlight due to an incident.
Suarez is idolised, despite biting opponents and racially abusing 1. No one called for him to lose his livelihood by being sacked. I think that’s his point.
It’s pretty ridiculous now that people step out of line and there’s a mass reaction from people want their livelihoods taken away. Guy should apologise make donation to an animal charity, be taken to court and probably fined. His family shouldn’t be made to suffer for him being a bell and posting unfunny and cruel shite. Hopefully he’s learned his lesson and others will think twice.
1) So far Zouma is fined only by his club and only because of public pressure. Uefa so far didn't do shit. Fa so far didn't do shit.
2) Antonio seems as a decent bloke and i know that he suffered a lot of racial abuse but now he managed that one abuse (about which in public is not talked much and neither people see that too much important) becomes secondary now. Racism is no1 topic at this moment regarding Zouma's situation.
Imagine that women step up now (or gay people) and talk about their problems in society? They all can say; "you are all upset about bloody cat but what about us?"
All those cases of abuse are cancer of today's society and society must deal with it but why "steal the moment" of one problem to push up yours? This is huge thing regarding animal abuse. Biggest in recent history (regarding media coverage) and it should be in headlines at the moment
Yep and that's why I'm not trying to dismiss it out of hand but it is going to sound like a deflection and Zouma is a massive cnut.
Of course they’d be sacked and lose their sponsorships. Rightly so too.
That footballer who kicked an owl on the pitch got a two game and fined.
Footballer who kicked owl is hit with ban
www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news/footballer-who-kicked-owl-is-hit-with-ban-2230959.html%3famp
Footballer who kicked owl is hit with ban
www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news/footballer-who-kicked-owl-is-hit-with-ban-2230959.html%3famp
This is what i was talking about. It is only two days in media and you already think that it is too much. I am not blaming you, don't get me wrong but it is general view of our society about animal abuse