MackRobinson
New Member
OkWhat ?
OkWhat ?
Whether you like the concept of caring for pets or not should not really factor into your having empathy for a defenseless little chap being kicked senseless.I don't understand how what @KennyBurner said is so controversial that it should be marked as inappropriate.
There is no question that Western society, especially affluent white people seem to a) value the lives of domesticated animals more than a fellow human being b) tend to have more critical responses toward mistakes by black people. My family is West African, grew up poor, and never understood the concept of owning pets, so for them, the outrage is weirder than the misdeed. I know older black people in America who hate dogs because they were weaponized by the police in poor black communities. This is a more nuanced subject than just finger pointing.
Not that it matters but I think what Zouma did is shitty and I personally like pets but the posters engaging in whataboutism with regards to race shouldn't be grounds for banning. The fact that many people think this is simply the reality of being a person of color in Western society.
In the US it was the same with Michael Vick, but it's impossible to get non-black people to understand this point of view.
That's Zouma's backstory. He's the victim really. He was simply responding to society inexplicably valuing cats more than it does people by taking one as a pet and then beating it up.What ?
I have seen a lot of people say that they value their own animals over people. Many times online. I really don't understand your reaction to that post. This is definitely a big generalisation, but I do believe that white people in the west are much more loving of animals than PoC. There will be/are PoC that read this story, and think it's bad, but think that the uproar over it is a bit over the top. I definitely disagree with the point that him being black is making the outrage worse. I have seen white people mistreat animals, and receive severe backlash for it online.What ?
That wasn't the point and I did say what he did was shitty.Whether you like the concept of caring for pets or not should not really factor into your having empathy for a defenseless little chap being kicked senseless.
Racism is about systematic oppression, not a phobia of black people from a past experience. Xenophobia (and all the other phobias) will always exist and is absolutely NOT the same thing as racism. Also shows the general lack of understanding of racism and anti-racism is more performance art than anything, but that's a different topic.So do you or does Kurt Zouma hate all dogs because of some being weaponized by cops? Isn't that pretty much the same as discriminating against someone based in their color /sex because some person team that color /sex once did a bad thing? Not sure what the nuance in this Kurt Zouma case is?
Have people said this? Agreed that's silly if so. Apples and oranges really.I have seen a lot of people say that they value their own animals over people. Many times online. I really don't understand your reaction to that post. This is definitely a big generalisation, but I do believe that white people in the west are much more loving of animals than PoC. There will be/are PoC that read this story, and think it's bad, but think that the uproar over it is a bit over the top. I definitely disagree with the point that him being black is making the outrage worse. I have seen white people mistreat animals, and receive severe backlash for it online.
I think the issue many PoC have is when you have white people saying that this is worse than racism. Making this statement is pretty offensive, and it's baffling to see people not understanding why we're upset by it.
Amy Cooper (aka Central Park Karen) faked getting assaulted by a black man and potentially put his life in danger because she didn't want to put her dog on a leash. First thing off the top of my headThat wasn't constructive, you are right.
Can you provide examples of situations where affluent white people value domesticated animals higher than people, and how do you think it manifests in the Zouma case? Because even though people were outraged, he still played the other day. I'm guessing he would not have played, if he had been equally violent to a fellow human being.
Thanks. But this thread is about a bloke battering his cat. The reaction to it is what people with empathy should do. Will there be a few racist people entering that fray? Sure, as with all walks of life. But if Rooney did this then I'm sure people would have reacted strongly as well.That wasn't the point and I did say what he did was shitty.
Racism is about systematic oppression, not a phobia of black people from a past experience. Xenophobia (and all the other phobias) will always exist and is absolutely NOT the same thing as racism. Also shows the general lack of understanding of racism and anti-racism is more performance art than anything, but that's a different topic.
Look back a few pages. There are posters actually arguing that animal abuse can be worse than racism. Not even worth naming and shaming b/c it's a completely idiotic and tone-deaf take.Have people said this? Agreed that's silly if so. Apples and oranges really.
I don't think anyone has said that. More along the line that this can be worse than a racist act. Which it can. As can be the case the other way around. It has more to do with the FA clamping down (rightfully) on racism and hence asking them to also give this it's due importance.I have seen a lot of people say that they value their own animals over people. Many times online. I really don't understand your reaction to that post. This is definitely a big generalisation, but I do believe that white people in the west are much more loving of animals than PoC. There will be/are PoC that read this story, and think it's bad, but think that the uproar over it is a bit over the top. I definitely disagree with the point that him being black is making the outrage worse. I have seen white people mistreat animals, and receive severe backlash for it online.
I think the issue many PoC have is when you have white people saying that this is worse than racism. Making this statement is pretty offensive, and it's baffling to see people not understanding why we're upset by it.
Way to completely miss the point again. Read the first sentence of what you originally responded to. My point is what @KennyBurner said shouldn't be grounds for banning, because it's a non-controversial thought process a lot of black people have even if they don't completely agree with it.Thanks. But this thread is about a bloke battering his cat. The reaction to it is what people with empathy should do. Will there be a few racist people entering that fray? Sure, as with all walks of life. But if Rooney did this then I'm sure people would have reacted strongly as well.
It absolutely can. Not every case of course but it's possible. If I said sexual abuse can be worse than racism you wouldn't mind I'm sure because DOGS WERE WEAPONIZED AND HENCE DONT MEAN MUCH. Or something.Look back a few pages. There are posters actually arguing that animal abuse can be worse than racism. Not even worth naming and shaming b/c it's a completely idiotic and tone-deaf take.
This is a garbage distinction. A racist act is part of the system of racism. You can't separate the act from the system and compare it to a one-off event. Crazy logicI don't think anyone has said that. More along the line that this can be worse than a racist act. Which it can. As can be the case the other way around. It has more to do with the FA clamping down (rightfully) on racism and hence asking them to also give this it's due importance.
Oh dear.The same society that hits horses in races many people attend to bet on also. You will never see this sort of outrage there.
What zouma did was terrible but the reaction he is receiving is as a result of him being black.
Just to add this pointless comparison was just made initially by an football I believe to highlight that racism is taken seriously as should this. Otherwise there's no reason why we need to compare the two really.It absolutely can. Not every case of course but it's possible. If I said sexual abuse can be worse than racism you wouldn't mind I'm sure because DOGS WERE WEAPONIZED AND HENCE DONT MEAN MUCH. Or something.
Obviously, that's not what I said, and it's swell you like to argue in hypotheticals, but you show a general lack of understanding about racism. Not even how I'm supposed to respond to this.It absolutely can. Not every case of course but it's possible. If I said sexual abuse can be worse than racism you wouldn't mind I'm sure because DOGS WERE WEAPONIZED AND HENCE DONT MEAN MUCH. Or something.
Violence, rape, abuse etc these aren't one off events. Nice of you to play down other people's/beings plight because it doesn't involve some 'system' or cops.This is a garbage distinction. A racist act is part of the system of racism. You can't separate the act from the system and compare it to a one-off event. Crazy logic
How the feck is hard to understand? Are you able to use basic logic when you read stuff?Look back a few pages. There are posters actually arguing that animal abuse can be worse than racism. Not even worth naming and shaming b/c it's a completely idiotic and tone-deaf take.
Now, you're just being a disingenuous prick. I'm talking specifically about animal abuse.Violence, rape, abuse etc these aren't one off events. Nice of you to play down other people's/beings plight because it doesn't involve some 'system' or cops.
Well said.How the feck is hard to understand? Are you able to use basic logic when you read stuff?
There are no levels of abuse. All abuse (racism, domestic abuse, animal abuse) are bad as it goes. If you want to list them by "which is worse" you go for it. I will not. For me evil shit is evil shit.
Animal abuse is worse than others IN TERMS that animal can never ever defend itself or do anything. Animal is in 100% cases totally helpless. That doesn't mean by any account that animal abuse IN GENERAL is worse than racism. Because of course it is not.
Stop putting things out of context and reading stuff in a way to support your agenda.
Ooh I've touched a nerve. They're all horrible I agree but just dont go around making a big deal when it involves animals, alright!?Now, you're just being a disingenuous prick. I'm talking specifically about animal abuse.
Michail Antonio this morning with the 'but it's not as bad as racism' defence.
Some people are choosing a very bizarre hill to die on, trying to explain away and mitigate animal abuse.
So Zouma is taking down West Ham, Moyes and now Antonio has made himself look a tit.
At least it's showing people's true colours. Vile people.
Yes, they have. There are many people on Twitter saying it. There has been the odd person say it in this thread, too. It is a pretty big talking point on Black Twitter UK right now.I don't think anyone has said that. More along the line that this can be worse than a racist act. Which it can. As can be the case the other way around. It has more to do with the FA clamping down (rightfully) on racism and hence asking them to also give this it's due importance.
Racism have nothing to do with beating up cats and animals. What you are doing is trying to use this situation for some white - black agenda. Why? I don't care who people are. You don't kick around helpless animals. We live in western society where it is abnormal doing it. If people in other part of world hate and kicks animals for fun then so be it.I don't understand how what @KennyBurner said is so controversial that it should be marked as inappropriate.
There is no question that Western society, especially affluent white people seem to a) value the lives of domesticated animals more than a random human being b) tend to have more critical responses toward mistakes by black people. My family is West African, grew up poor, and never understood the concept of owning pets, so for them, the outrage is weirder than the misdeed. I know older black people in America who hate dogs because they were weaponized by the police in poor black communities. This is a more nuanced subject than just finger pointing.
Not that it matters but I think what Zouma did is shitty and I personally like pets but the posters engaging in whataboutism with regards to race shouldn't be grounds for banning. Thoughts like these are simply the reality of being a person of color in Western society.
In the US it was the same with Michael Vick, but it's impossible to get non-black people to understand this point of view.
Can’t believe Antonio thought it was a good idea to bring race into this. It’s not relevant.
West Ham have showed a clear lack of leadership on this. They should have nipped it in the bud but they’ve let it simmer and this could get bigger than it needed to be.
Michail Antonio this morning with the 'but it's not as bad as racism' defence.
Some people are choosing a very bizarre hill to die on, trying to explain away and mitigate animal abuse.
So Zouma is taking down West Ham, Moyes and now Antonio has made himself look a tit.
At least it's showing people's true colours. Vile people.
Okay I was referring to this thread. I didn't know we were discussing twitter / gutter discourse. Besides how would one even compare two evils in general? Makes no sense.Yes, they have. There are many people on Twitter saying it. There has been the odd person say it in this thread, too. It is a pretty big talking point on Black Twitter UK right now.
No, not really. (I don't mean it to ignore the cat's rights, I mean, it shouldn't be the focal point of the conversation).I personally think it's unacceptable that the race card is being played here. Especially from anyone connected to West Ham, like Michael Antonio.
People react with anger whenever a famous person is caught doing something bad like this - whether that's a white or black sports star, politician, police, etc.
Trying to belittle / undermine the criticism whenever it's a black person guilty of it by quickly dragging the issue back to race isn't fair. It's got nothing to do with race. It's about a person abusing a small, defenceless animal.
This is about animal rights. There's room, or damn well should be, for outrage and sympathy for other kind of rights without dragging everything back to racism or sexism. And if some can't do that, then it says more about their self obsessed / serving attitudes, and lack of empathy to any other group, than it does about those appalled by the act and rightly condemning the person responsible for it.
Can’t believe Antonio thought it was a good idea to bring race into this. It’s not relevant.
West Ham have showed a clear lack of leadership on this. They should have nipped it in the bud but they’ve let it simmer and this could get bigger than it needed to be.