Kobbie Mainoo (out)

Given the length of his current contract, the contraction of TV revenue, the PSR/cash issues United and have and most importantly the recongition that our wage structure is dangerously broken - of course we're not going to throw money at Kobbie.

The whole reason we're where we are is Big Ed's misunderstanding of how football economics works, and belief in keeping asset value by offering ridiculous wage bumps.

We as fans can't have it both ways. We all bemoan what enormous bumper contracts given to, for example, Shaw, Jones, Martial, Williams (!) and of course Rashford did to our ability to be solvent, much less compete. Well, here's a chance for the new ownership to show some real strength.

Give him a good base, and an enormous amount of incentive-based upside. Big CL-qualification bonuses and so forth.

If Kobbie and his agents prefer to go sign somewhere new of course they'll offer him big money, but we can't keep giving in to those demands.
 
McTerminator said:
Completely ignoring the fact that the wages we are paying Rashford are half pur issue and something we are making a big effort to remedy.

He can’t use an outgoing Glazer contract as a metric for a future facing Ineos contract. If he insists on doing so the club will sell him and rightly so.

Pogba was immensely talented but SAF let him go for similar reasons and was right to do so as we all later discovered. The difference being Kobbie can command a good fee and has a proper contract already.
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They can use it as a bargaining chip, along with the other factors which I mentioned i.e the hype and value that was drummed up regarding his talent. I don't think he will get 200k but I can understand why he and his representatives would aim high. Assuming it is true of course.
 
CG1010 said:
Can you clarify your comment? I was under the impression that in PSR, anytime we sell a player, the sale value - cost of player acquisition (amortized) gets added to the profit/loss.

Also I understand that our current PSR problems are rather temporary due to our reckless spending recently and would sort itself out (provided we don't go crazy again) in a couple of years.
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Yes, but the remaining amortization is a cost the club will incur no matter what. Say you sell a player with 0 book value for 50m. That's a 50m profit. If you sell a player with 50m book value for 50m then it's a wash, but you're avoiding 50m of coming costs, so you're up 50m. If you sell a player with 100m book value for 50m, then it's a 50m loss, but you're preventing 100m of future losses so you're up 50m. There is nothing magic about academy products or amortization, 50m is 50m.

This stuff does complicate things a bit on a season to season basis, but that's mostly relevant for clubs who are already in breach of PSR and need some accounting profit asap to avoid penalties, or for clubs with owners who inject capital and are therefore constrained by the rules and not money. Neither of those things are very likely to be super relevant for a club like United.
 
Dannn411 said:
I know I said I wouldn't sell Mainoo under any financial circumstances but if the news on the requested wages is true then its time to reconsider. Asking for 200k a weekvis insane. Based on what exactly? He can't even complete 90 minutes regularly and has looked 2 steps behind everybody this season. How the hell can he expect us to pay him like an established PL star?

His camp using what we've paid other bum players in the team as a yardstick simply does not wash because we are actively trying to get rid of all of those players which should suggest to his camp that we are not going to do the same anymore.

The only reasonable yardstick he should be using is the wages we are paying other youngsters in the team like Amad, Yoro, Garnacho and Hojlund and there is no way we are paying those players anywhere near 200K a week. 200K a week is Van Dijk territory :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Yep.

Imagine a Manchester United in 2025, player asking for a payrise after finishing 8th and being 14th on the table. Incredible.

I think our fans are daft and these players know that.


Scholes did put Ineos to the task, on why they increase ticket prices yet the football on the pitch is going worse and worse.
Now same analogy, imagine a player asking for payrise yet the football on the pitch is getting worse and worse.

Imagine paying Van Djik salary on a player who has achieved 8th place (not on Mainoo alone but any United player)
 
This is the culture and club that the owners and ceos have created here. Of course his agent is looking around at the other players wages and having a go at it. He would be a fool for not trying.
It is going to be a long tough time to reset the club to normal again.

We can not tie our future hopes to one or a couple of young players that we hope will be worldbeaters one day. Just does not work.
Club desperately needs to take back the control and the narrative that no player is bigger than the club. Not even if they are ”one of our own”. This sentimental thought are taking us no where.
 
This is a good time for the club to start setting wage expectations. As others have said, you can have a 5 year contract but if you perform well then you will get a pay increase before the end of it. In recent times we have given out silly contracts that only suit the player and not the club. We need to sort that out.
 
Gordon S said:
This is the culture and club that the owners and ceos have created here. Of course his agent is looking around at the other players wages and having a go at it. He would be a fool for not trying.
It is going to be a long tough time to reset the club to normal again.

We can not tie our future hopes to one or a couple of young players that we hope will be worldbeaters one day. Just does not work.
Club desperately needs to take back the control and the narrative that no player is bigger than the club. Not even if they are ”one of our own”. This sentimental thought are taking us no where.
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We don't need to tie our futures to anyone. Offer him a basic salary that reflects his status as an emerging talent and put several incentives, both personal and team oriented, that can increase his salary to what his agent asks for. If he thinks he deserves 200K p/w fixed and his agent can fetch it for him (and a good commission for himself, never forget that little detail), it's Mainoo who has a decision to make, not us.
 
Wouldn't be against it but I'd say in the summer rather than now if at all. Let him get all the chances he can in this system. If it doesn't work then we make a huge huge profit and buy players more suited to the system. On the contract situation 200k is a lot to give him, he hasn't shown the slightest bit enough to deserve that. If we do this then we haven't learnt at all. We need to stabilise the balance sheet and the wage bill needs to be priority. Can't let PSR cripple Ruben's work here.
 
NotThatSoph said:
That's... Not how it works, at all.

Palmer was given a very long contract to bind hin to the club for a very long time, and to spread the accounting cost of his transfer fee over a longer period of time.

His wage is his wage. He's paid per week the same as every other footballer.
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hobbers said:
The length of contract is irrelevant.

Palmer didnt sign for £130k because it was for 8 years, no star player that age with any competent representation is expecting to be earning the same money 3 years later, let alone 8 years down the line
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His contract is his contract. Once Palmer signs it, the club is under an obligation to pay him £6,760,000 every year until 2033, unless both parties agree to renegotiate. If Palmer was to get a career ending injury tomorrow then his financial future is secured for the next 8 years.
 
Based on early season form i would prob entertain a big offer but in the past 2 games he has shown his quality again and as a result we should resist all enquiries.
Prob all paper talk anyway, ineos trying to cut costs and someone due a new contract...media soup
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
His contract is his contract. Once Palmer signs it, the club is under an obligation to pay him £6,760,000 every year until 2033, unless both parties agree to renegotiate. If Palmer was to get a career ending injury tomorrow then his financial future is secured for the next 8 years.
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And?
 
NotThatSoph said:
And?
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And... Palmer is guaranteed to receive a lot more money from his employer than Mainoo would if he were to sign a 5 year contract on 130k a week, as Palmer would be guaranteed to receive (at the bare minimum) this weekly wage for an additional 3 years. Why make the Palmer comparison if you're not going to take into account the length of the contract?
 
NotThatSoph said:
Yes, but the remaining amortization is a cost the club will incur no matter what. Say you sell a player with 0 book value for 50m. That's a 50m profit. If you sell a player with 50m book value for 50m then it's a wash, but you're avoiding 50m of coming costs, so you're up 50m. If you sell a player with 100m book value for 50m, then it's a 50m loss, but you're preventing 100m of future losses so you're up 50m. There is nothing magic about academy products or amortization, 50m is 50m.

This stuff does complicate things a bit on a season to season basis, but that's mostly relevant for clubs who are already in breach of PSR and need some accounting profit asap to avoid penalties, or for clubs with owners who inject capital and are therefore constrained by the rules and not money. Neither of those things are very likely to be super relevant for a club like United.
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Very good. The other part is wages. A player like Casemiro that's on a reported 350k a week, by selling him, inaddition to avoiding the yet to mature cost, you remove the future wages too.
 
14 pages on a tier 3 bullshit rumour

He’s not going anywhere come on
 
I like Kobbie, but he has achieved nothing in football yet to warrant the sort of wages being reported.
 
Maybe there's some middle ground to what can be agreed but the days of offering massive salaries are over. I hope we can keep him and he can grow into a monster for our midfield.
 
He’ll sign the extension once the contract is on the table. Not sure about Garnacho though, feels that both club and player aren’t really bothered with one another especially after Amorim dropped him from the first team a couple of weeks ago
 
Kobbie's camp are creating the exit story to leverage for more wages.

United's camp are creating the "willing to listen to offers" story to pressure Kobbie to accept a more reasonable amount.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
We don't need to tie our futures to anyone. Offer him a basic salary that reflects his status as an emerging talent and put several incentives, both personal and team oriented, that can increase his salary to what his agent asks for. If he thinks he deserves 200K p/w fixed and his agent can fetch it for him (and a good commission for himself, never forget that little detail), it's Mainoo who has a decision to make, not us.
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Pretty much as simple as that. With the risk of sounding delusional, i think you and i could have done a better job than Woodward :p
 
yamo123x said:
Based on early season form i would prob entertain a big offer but in the past 2 games he has shown his quality again and as a result we should resist all enquiries.
Prob all paper talk anyway, ineos trying to cut costs and someone due a new contract...media soup
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Crikey, thank god you aren't anything to do with the clubs transfer dealings.

The lad is 19, of course he's going to have dips in form, what he has shown though is that he has lots of attributes which will allow him to mature into a top midfield player.
 
yamo123x said:
Based on early season form i would prob entertain a big offer but in the past 2 games he has shown his quality again and as a result we should resist all enquiries.
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The kind of thinking in your initial sentence is so mind boggling to me. The guy is 19 years old. Entertaining selling at this point just seems so ridiculous when you’d be hard pressed to replace him with similar quality in his age group.

United finally produces a technically proficient midfielder - the best since Pogba - And people are saying “based on early season, I’d entertain an offer”.

Young players not even allowed drops in-form any more.
 
FrankWhite said:
https://www.skysports.com/football/...-at-old-trafford-amid-reports-of-psr-concerns

Of course it was a BS story. Everyone losing their shite over nothing.
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It wasn't BS, things were coming through Ornstein. They tested the water with one of their media stooges, got a immense and immediate backlash to the idea of selling these players, and now they are putting out through another media puppet that none of it was true.

They kind of did Ornstein dirty, this will affect his reputation, he's never wrong.
 
This whole conversation is stupid. I would say there is a close to zero percent chance we sell, but these hacks get to write this because ok, if some club offers 140 million, we might entertain it, obviously, before rejecting it out of hand. Likewise for anybody.

But that's before you factor in who could even make a huge offer? Chelsea? Please. So, Madrid would accept 350m for Bellingham, will we write that they are 'open to selling'.

Even regards ornstein, by this standard nothing he said is wrong. It's just a moot point.

Hacks.
 
The new contract should be with heavy performance incentives. We've done the same mistake already with Shaw and Rashford in recent years.

He still has 3,5 years remaining anyway. Either he takes the offer now and starts earning more, or wait out his contract . A lot can change in 3,5 years.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
And... Palmer is guaranteed to receive a lot more money from his employer than Mainoo would if he were to sign a 5 year contract on 130k a week, as Palmer would be guaranteed to receive (at the bare minimum) this weekly wage for an additional 3 years. Why make the Palmer comparison if you're not going to take into account the length of the contract?
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In exchange for that, Chelsea has secured the rights to his services for longer, made him more difficult for other clubs to buy, and put him in a weaker bargaining position for when he renegotiates his contract in the near future. It's a trade. I would be surprised if we found a single other person who thought that would make his wages incomparable.
 
NotThatSoph said:
In exchange for that, Chelsea has secured the rights to his services for longer, made him more difficult for other clubs to buy, and put him in a weaker bargaining position for when he renegotiates his contract in the near future. It's a trade. I would be surprised if we found a single other person who thought that would make his wages incomparable.
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I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Should we follow Chelsea's lead and give Mainoo an 8 year contract on 130k a week so that he's in a weaker bargaining position for when he next renegotiates his contract?
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Wasn't Palmer given a 7 or 8 year contract to help spread the cost of his overall earnings? Isak at 19 had achieved nothing compared to Mainoo at 19. You're comparing apples to oranges.


Agreed. We shouldn't be lowballing ourselves for such a promising academy player with 3 years left on his current contract.
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Well, I agree this is not an exact science when it comes to contracts. However, if you want to compare apples to apples as you say in regards to who bring what to the team, we will never be in advantage. We have some super high salaries to players that dont contribute nothing to the team. The point I was trying to make with Palmer is that some of the best performing players in the league, who are in similar age bracket as Mainoo, are not on crazy wages.
 
TsuWave said:
The kind of thinking in your initial sentence is so mind boggling to me. The guy is 19 years old. Entertaining selling at this point just seems so ridiculous when you’d be hard pressed to replace him with similar quality in his age group.

United finally produces a technically proficient midfielder - the best since Pogba - And people are saying “based on early season, I’d entertain an offer”.

Young players not even allowed drops in-form any more.
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We have waited about ten years for a midfielder in his mould, and now people are considering selling. It’s insanity.
 
cj_sparky said:
I like Kobbie, but he has achieved nothing in football yet to warrant the sort of wages being reported.
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I feel exactly the same.

He's not even played 40 league games yet, any talks of 120k+ a week wages are nonsense, and its paying these sort of wages that have got us in a mess financially over the years.
 
I think contracts should be performance based.

50% pay cut the seasons we don't make the CL BUT in return he gets a £40m release clause in any season we don't make the Champions League. This keeps both the player and club accountable

That way it means both parties are performance incentived
 
Skills said:
I think contracts should be performance based.

50% pay cut the seasons we don't make the CL BUT in return he gets a £40m release clause in any season we don't make the Champions League. This keeps both the player and club accountable

That way it means both parties are performance incentived
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Thats madness. Have an off season and half your team leaves for chump change. Thank god you aren't in charge of our contracts.
 
We're under absolutely no pressure or rush to renew his contract at this point in time. The only scenario that would actually put us under real pressure now would be a +£120m offer and how that could enable a rebuild along with other outgoings.

We have Mainoo tied down on a contract lasting til 2028 (including the optional year). I'd say it's fair to offer him a new contract now with terms in the range of Dalot, Hojlund or even Yoro, but not any higher then that, and with an understanding to renegotiate in 2/3 years if conditions are met or have changed. If that's not sufficient for him to sign a new deal, then we have until either summer 2026 or even summer 2027 to consider whether he warrants a salary in line with his demands, or if we're better off selling.

Our singel biggest issue on the transfermarket (with outgoings) is that we're paying above market salaries reducing the resale-value of most of our players. We need to stop caving to the demands of agents/players, and have to start setting a new precedence for how we deal with and manage contracts.
 
Skills said:
Don't have off-seasons then.
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Ahh, of course. I hadn't thought about that. Have you considered going into management or football club ownership because your ideas could revolutionise the game.

United, Chelsea, City, Tottenham, Arsenal, Liverpool all expect and want to be top 4 every year. Thats ignoring the fact that we have some of the "smaller" sides having good seasons and pushing for that position as well. So at least 2 of those clubs would lose all of their best players every few years due to your crazy ideas.
 
Skills said:
I think contracts should be performance based.

50% pay cut the seasons we don't make the CL BUT in return he gets a £40m release clause in any season we don't make the Champions League. This keeps both the player and club accountable

That way it means both parties are performance incentived
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:lol:

What is more likely?

all clubs didn’t think of this, it’s a great idea, and you’re the first one to come up with it

or

It’s an insane idea that only a layman who is not actually in football would suggest
 
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