It simply reflects the degree of desperation about the midfield options we have. But the boy is a real deal. I just hope he can be used and developed in a way suitable to him with the longevity in mind.
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
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Blame that crazy Dutch manager of ours.
You’re just talking nonsense now, although probably knowingly. It isn’t complicated. It is possible, despite him being Chelsea’s player of the year, for a football observer to not think he’s all that. Every club has a player of the year. If Mason Mount never joined Manchester United, I would be extremely confident that it would not be considered stupid or any other adjective you have used for someone to think he was nothing special. In spite of him winning an award at a poor Chelsea team.
Everyone is entitled to their view on a player, and that view is even more credible in my eyes if it’s one that they have formed from using a pair of eyes rather than something they could have read on Google. There is not only one way to view Mason fecking Mount, he isn’t Messi. Many people who have watched him play a lot of football matches are not massively impressed by him.
It's not really the same as a new signing most people have never seen or rarely seen, and then writing off the same player after 2 performances. People have opinions on players from other clubs, particularly in the PL. So if they weren't impressed after 3 seasons, then why should they change their opinion based on nothing, but the fact that they're a United player? If anything, the default and expected opinion should be that they maintain their opinion, but are more willing to change their mind given that he's now a United player. Which is what people are doing.
Actually, I wrote him off before he came, based on the last 18 months of shite performances.
He is not an unknown from some random league that needs time to adjust to the Premier League and environment. I’ve watched him plenty over the years, and I’ve never rated him at all. My stance won’t change simply because he has signed for United. I may change my opinion, as is my right, if he starts performing for United. But based on the last 18 months and the start of his career - so far - at United, I see nothing that would suggest he’s a different player to what I was expecting.
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Don’t forget Hansen-Aaoren too.
The thing with Mount, is that we have to experiment with 2 AM into double 8 role, in hope of Casemiro holding the midfield in shape.
It might work if we have Casemiro in his physical prime, and intelligent full back who could also part time DM role in the game to help out midfield when needed.
Reality so far is that Casemiro will get badly isolated in midfield on his own, we will get out numbered, outplayed and exposed in centre of the park, with Bruno and Mount having tendency pushing up abit too far without helping much on midfield battle, and eventually losing control in midfield.
I just don’t see easy way out for that. As we can’t afford more bad results, ETH may have to count back on someone to drop deep a lot instead, someone most likely to be Amrabat, or worst Mctominay, or hopefully Mainoo for helping out to win midfield battle and gaining back control.
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So, because he was poor in a season where all the Chelsea players were poor, coached by multiple coaches including fat Frank, that’s how you see him. Why don’t you take last season out of the way as an outlier and see how he has performed over his whole career to date? That will give you a better picture of what we might expectActually, I wrote him off before he came, based on the last 18 months of shite performances.
He is not an unknown from some random league that needs time to adjust to the Premier League and environment. I’ve watched him plenty over the years, and I’ve never rated him at all. My stance won’t change simply because he has signed for United. I may change my opinion, as is my right, if he starts performing for United. But based on the last 18 months and the start of his career - so far - at United, I see nothing that would suggest he’s a different player to what I was expecting.
a quick google search will turn this up from the athletic
That's actually kind of insane that Mctominay was the last academy midfielder who broke into first-team, now we have Mainoo & Mejbri both who have chance to do the same and maybe overtake Scott's role.
Ganarcho?
I think Isak Hansen-Aarøen might join them soon. Reminds me of a young Modric
Chelsea played with either a Jorginho-Kante or Jorginho-Kovacic double pivot. We dont have a double pivot like that and expect Mount to work and I just dont see it working.
And its not just Chelsea for me but ive seen this guy stink up the place for England too.
The attacker?
Wingers are attacking midfielders arent they?
Unless you are referring to some new criminal scandal involving Garnacho?
Im not saying that he may not work out for us, different tactics and all. But to write him off based on 2 games at a new club and his last season at Chelsea seems a bit like having a pre conceived idea that’s not going to change in your head
Correct. And writing him off after last season is even more ironic when one of the top threads on the homepage is full of rave reviews about Bissouma.
Wingers are attacking midfielders arent they?
Unless you are referring to some new criminal scandal involving Garnacho?
Please can we not even make that joke, that terrifies me...
I think traditionally I class the 3 in midfield as midfielders the 3 in attack (Wide and striker) as attackers, midfielders in the main sense of the world tend to be your Casemiro, Eriksen, Hannibal, Gore, Mctominay, Mount etc
I always considered wingers to be (attacking) midfielders.
That used to be the case back in the 442 days, but these days with the prevalence of wide forwards instead of 'proper' wingers I think they are generally considered attackers more than midfielders.
By the time I catch up I bet the 4-4-2 will be back in vogue.
He is being hyped up as the next Scholes/ Carrick here..
He is still a kid.. be calm when he has bad games
He is still a kid.. be calm when he has bad games
I agree. Biggest mismatch between expectation and what a player actually has done I’ve ever seen in here.
Love him though. Really hope he makes it.
Does he have a return date?
I don't think I've seen a good midfielder as him from the youth teams since Pogba. I never understood the hype with Garner or Galbraith. They never looked special, but Mainoo looks ready to be part of a Premier League midfield. Some talents have this aura of inevitable success around them based on their talent, confidence on the ball and mentality, and Mainoo has this in abundance. He has not shown it in PL yet, but give him minutes and he will.
It happens constantly on here. Every youth team player that manages to kick a ball in a straight line in a pre-season friendly is forever hyped as the solution to all our problems from that point on. Until they actually play.
Garnacho should be an example to temper people's expectations. Clearly a massive talent, you could argue a potentially world-class one. But after two seasons he's still not ready to start matches and make an impact, let alone be someone you can rely on week in, week out. Yet you have people on here talking like Mainoo is better than all our available first team options and we should just play him every week and all our problems will magically be solved.
Not that I disagree with the overall idea of tempering expectations but as for the bolded bit, it's one season, it's actually not even a year since his debut.
Shaw & Bissaka are November and Mainoo is mid October last I heard but should be returning to some form of training in the next few weeks
Would you call Mainoo a talent that can just kick the ball in a straight line? Talent recognition at its finest.
I think we have seen a few very talented players at U18. Some of them have struggled at senior level. Take Ethan Laird as one recent example. I also think Greenwood was more exceptional. And while Greenwood was a success, his allround game was not that good in the PL (would probably have become that good though).
Furthermore, central midfield is harder for a young midfielder than fullback or attacker.
Yeah you're right actually, it's a season and a bit - he first appeared in April 2022. But the wider point I'm making is that even player as good as that still needs a heck of a lot of time to become an influence or a player that you can rely on. And that's on the wing. I'd argue central midfield is a lot harder. People's expectations are unrealisitic, he's a talent but a lot of patience is going to be needed.
I agree. It's just hard to imagine how McTominay managed to be a PL midfielder, while Mainoo who has qualities you need to be a much more effective PL midfielder won't be one. I think what stands out for a midfielder his age is the composure on the ball along with being press resistant, and good technique. With Amrabat ready to play and Mount back, I think he's going to struggle to get into the team, but I definitely think he should get at least 400-500 PL minutes. Sometimes when we lead, we need a player like him to keep the composure and not a rash foul machine like McTominay.
Re guardian article:
Please. He was never their best player. Not even close. Also, by your metric, the same rule applies for how shit Chelsea were - he won his second POTY as one of the better players of a bad bunch. Hardly a good benchmark. His POTY's are an example of nepotism at it's finest, being one of their own. Additionally, recency is a real thing in football. Dele Alli was twice young premier league player of the year, remember. Does he get special dispensation for 'outliers'? Do some of our players get excluded from the 'shit-basket' for how poor we've been? Or just Mount as he's our shiny new signing? I've seen enough of him to realise that he's not a very good footballer, relatively speaking. He doesn't excel at anything, and doesn't even have a position of his own. If we're going to say #10, well, he has Bruno to contend with for that role; and he isn't fit to lace his boots. And as a #8... well the proof is in the pudding there. I honestly do not know what Ten Hag is thinking with this signing. It has me completely baffled.
Re his whole career:
Mount has been playing for 4 years. Last 18 months he has been, unarguably, pretty shit (cue excuses about how bad Chelsea were, manager changes, etc.), and in his first season he played 53 times and managed 8 goals and 6 assists - which isn't exactly a stellar return for a #10. So if we remove his debut season and the last 18 months, that leaves how much left over from 4 seasons? So if we're looking at his career, as a whole, he's average, at best. And don't get me started on how he's performed, so far, for United. . . . Hardly a signing to get excited about; and most definitely not a signing that we should have prioritised to the detriment of other signings - especially for 55m in the final year of his contract.
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This is the third time you repeat the exact same sentence: "An example of nepotism at its finest - being one of their own". So incredibly boring. He was one of their best players, he scored 11 goals and had 10 assists in PL alone during a season they were 3rd, and also won Champions League against Man City thanks to a great assist by him. How shit does that make him?
Look, I don't think he's the answer to our problems either, and personally I'd look for another midfielder, but surely you get the idea behind the signing and what Ten Hag is trying to do. He has played 150 minutes, and you're already complaining.
Why do you continously say he has been shit for 18 months? It's like you're refusing to accept that he has been injured, even after several posters have explained it to you. Are you incapable of reading or understanding this?
How was it out of a bad bunch? Chelsea were 3rd in the league. They lost in extra time in the CL to the eventual winners. They also reached two finals where they lost on penalties to a Liverpool team that was competing for all trophies till the last day of the season.
Probably not an understatement to say he could be one of our best ever midfielders.
I have repeated it multiple times - and each time in response to the "But he was Chelsea's POTY!" that is thrown at me. Am I supposed to fabricate another reason? Or am I permitted to respond in ilk?
Perfectly capable of reading and understanding. Just as much as everyone else who chooses to make every excuse under the sun for how poor he has been. And honestly, I don't get what Ten Hag is trying to do, no. Much the same as a good portion of United supporters that I have spoken with. 150 minutes is largely irrelevant to me. I watch enough of Chelsea to dislike the signing before he'd kicked a football for us. I do not rate him as a footballer, at all. I don't think he's exceptionally good at anything, outside of running around a bit. I find him a bit of a nothing player, to be honest. I think we could have done a hell of a lot better than spunking 55m on a player off the back of a poor 18 months, in the final year of his contract. It's a costly experiment trying to convert him into an #8. Money we simply do not have that we can experiment with; especially when it comes to the detriment of potential other more pressing signings.
Can people please stop whining on about Mason Mount in this thread, thanks.
I think if young centre-mids can show high intelligence on the field it's sometimes easier for them to get a regular spot than for a forward, who in the end has to show end product. It's obviously a rarity for one to have that intelligence along with the required physical and technical skills, and we won't know with Mainoo until he's actually played, but it's a good sign at least that ten Hag seems willing to give him those chances.
I think if young centre-mids can show high intelligence on the field it's sometimes easier for them to get a regular spot than for a forward, who in the end has to show end product. It's obviously a rarity for one to have that intelligence along with the required physical and technical skills, and we won't know with Mainoo until he's actually played, but it's a good sign at least that ten Hag seems willing to give him those chances.
So you did watch him score and assist 1/4 of their total 76 PL goals that played a big role in them securing 3rd place, while also being a key player in their transitions and high intensity pressing that allowed them to win the ball back quickly? Come on, mate. He isn't perfect, but he is so far from shit, and he isn't nearly as bad as you make him out to be. You're trying so hard to get your point across that you don't like him that you're even willing to claim he wasn't one of their best players in that period. It's gone too far, and you should just take a step back and calm down a bit.
Out of curiousity, who would you rather go for instead of Mount?
In preseason at least it didn't look like that. He started against Arsenal and Real. So I'm hopeful you are going to be wrong. At the end of the day if he plays like he did against Arsenal he will get gametime.
Hopefully he alongwith Mejbri will push Eriksen and McT down the pecking order.
Am a little bit miffed how a player who has barely any senior minutes has all of a sudden become our best midfielder, better than full international players who have won trophies at the highest level.
A good prospect for sure, but a reality check needs to be had by some.
A good prospect for sure, but a reality check needs to be had by some.
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