Klopp Confirmed Liverpool Manager

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Well i just stated what papers said. I believe that Liverpool owners want Liverpool in the Champions League every year and as i answered to B20 i think he will be sacked if he will fail to deliver Champions League football in 2 seasons.

I won't rule that out. I think it depends on how we miss out though. If it's like last season where 4th was handed on a plate to the least terrible team of the also-rans and we could have easily made it with but a few less epic cockups + then yeah. if it's more like 2014 where 4th placed Arsenal got a massive 79 points and we still gave it a good go - Then I think he could survive two years like that.
 
Did you really just claim that Ancelotti has a 'good track record for developing young players', 'more than Klopp'?
I'm dying to know more about that, because the way I see it it's the complete opposite.
Carlo is a fantastic manager, but developing youngsters is absolutely not his area of expertise.
And which 'average players' has he gotten 'the best out' at Milan (when they had top stars), PSG, Real, Chelsea lol?
Kaka? Pirlo? Shevchenko? Ballack? Anelka? Ibrahimovic? Ronaldo?

he absolutely got the best out of Pirlo who was a floundering forward that had already washed out at inter until Ancelotti made him a midfielder.
 
As for the rest, it wasn't a dig, but Klopp came into a club that had decent resources and potential and he made them much stronger. From what I know - and I stand to be corrected - 13th was a false position when the resources and everything else was considered. The squad had some deadwood, but a bit of quality too. He did a really good job to improve that side to the point of being the second best group of players in Germany (on paper), but IMO he did an even better job turning a squad that was (again, on paper) not as good, man for man, as Bayern's, into a much better team than them. Not to even mention getting the side playing like one of the best in Europe, even though they didn't have the resources.

Even in our most successful years, I didn't fall in love with Klopp or praised him as a saint. Therefore didn't take your post as a dig, honestly. It's just that there is so much incorrect information or information without proper context on him and / or Dortmund out here that it seems necessary to point it out. No question that you're entitled to your opinion (that's what a forum is about, isn't it) but your response is based again on a lot of either incorrect information or an opinion that you may have rather exclusively. :)

Dortmund's squad 07/08 that finished 13th was nowhere near decency, not to mention second (on paper) as you said in your previous post: Dortmund had finished as 9th and 7th the seasons before, and I doubt that you will find more than 10 football fans under the sun who had watched the Bundesliga at that time who would agree with you that this team was rated highly and just had a jinxed campaign as e.g. the squad Klopp's last season.

Secondly, as others have pointed out, we didn't have decent resources at that time. It was a shoe string budget with next to no net spending (€1.5m in the summer Klopp came; €4.5m in 09/10; €1.0 in 11/12 etc).

In fact, Zorc and Watzke had one obligatory condition for Klopp's hire: He was required to agree on working with players the club already had, adding only mostly inexpensive youngsters (either from the club's youth or brought in).

As for existing potential: Mats Hummels was brought into the squad on loan 6 months before Klopp arrived. He also found Kehl, Dede, Kuba and Weidenfeller in the squad from whom not all were rated highly (i.e. Kuba). 5 players Klopp inherited played a role in his further plans. That's leaves plenty of deadwood left in my books.

It's also a myth which I read somewhere on the Caf that Klopp benefitted a lot from our youth system. Schmelzer played in our 2nd team but hadn't been considered 1st-team worthy before Klopp arrived. (Fun fact: They had already scouted Schmelzer during their days at Mainz before it became clear they'd move to BVB.) Nuri Sahin returned from loan to Feyenoord because he wasn't favoured by Klopp's predecessor. Kevin Großkreutz and Mario Götze are the only inexpensive other BVB youngsters who followed one summer later (Großkreutz had to be bought back from from a lower tier club).

The likes of Subotic, Bender, Barrios, Kagawa, Lewandowski, Piszczek, Santana, Gündogan etc were all bought by Klopp.

Taken together, Klopp didn't just mildly overhaul or helped an under-performing team to reach their potential. That's very far from reality.

I agree with those, however, who say it'll be a much tougher challenge to make Liverpool title contenders than Dortmund.
 
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Klopp to me had his gegenpressing style which worked for a while but then when it stopped working he couldn't develop newer and better ideas. Carlo on the other hand has developed different ideas and adapted to his environments really well (in all the clubs you've named). He inherited a trophy less Milan in 2001 and turned them into one of the most feared teams in Europe. Shevchenko and kaka weren't the players they were under Terim. It was ancelotti who turned pirlo into a deep lying playmaker and played him behind an ageing rui Costa. I think he brought the beat out of ambrosini and even an ageing maladini. Under him at Chelsea josh mc eachran was developing really well. He even brought the best out an average player like Malouda as far as I remember who became one of Chelsea's go to guys. I also think verratti developed well under him at PSG and they gave a good fight to Barcelona in the quarters of the CL. His time at Madrid is also well documented and even the best players like zlatan and ronaldo say that he's a players coach. I think Carlo would a solid choice and there are plenty of reasons why he is good for the development of young and even average players. I hope ive adequately answered your condescending question

Ashley Cole and Malouda both played the best football of their career under him. I'd even say Terry as well. Might not have been as defensively imperious as in Mourinho's best seasons, but on the ball he was a different player.

Let's not forget Seedorf either who only really came to life again under him after he lost a level during his time at Madrid.
 
There's no getting around it, Klopp going to Liverpool is very disappointing. Add to that, Giggs is our likely next manager and it's downright fecking depressing.
 
The fawning over Klopp by some United fans is hardly a surprise and along with the fawning it shows how fickle nature of football fans is. In that fickle world, Fabregas is world class one year and it is massive mistake to miss out on him previously, next season he is footballing fraud. Pedro is world class after 1 goal and assist debut and Woody is villain for missing out on him based on false reports of haggling over couple of millions. After that Pedro is not so much of world class and important after Martial's good start. Forget that not many even knew who Martial was till couple of months ago.

The simple thing here is, Klopp is very good and proven manager but he will be starting from scratch in a different league, in different environment and where the challenges can be tougher and whether he will be success or failure is hard to guess. Also, as United, we can't keep hoping all our rivals to get shit managers and shit players so that we can finish higher. We have to concentrate on us improving enough so as to stay around top even if there are 3-4 very strong rival teams.
These two paragraphs really sum it up for me.
It won't help him that he has to take over in an ongoing season in a league with no winter break to instill his idea of football in training sessions and put it to the test in a couple of friendlies.
 
If you look at his net spent over the years there, it is basically 0. They also have a healthy wage-to-revenue ratio considering that things went bad a few years ago, so it isn't that they players had good wages.
I wanted to add that one of the most crucial things CEO Watzke did in that regard was enforcing all players to sign contracts in which a third of the pay cheque is performance-related. Of course performance doesn't translate 1:1 into club revenue but it helped reducing the debt and solidify our finances.
 
If I was a 'Pool fan, I would be ecstatic with Klopp as a manager. I think he is the best manager available on the market and the kind of personality that Liverpool FC needs. I have heard the "pundits" say that Liverpool should go for Ancelloti, but I don't think he is right fit for them. He is a manager who takes over a team with good players and makes them play to their potential. They need a manager who can make their players pull above their weight and make them a regular champions league team. IMO, there is no better manager than Klopp to do that. His synchronized orchestra needs a mix of young and talented players, and Liverpool have some of them in their ranks.

I don't expect an immediate turnaround, his style of football will require some time to implement, though I have no doubt that he'll get there. Also,the club and the fans expectation should not be winning the title at this stage, but making themselves a regular fixture in the CL for the next 2-3 years.

Not going to be happy if he signs for them. First, because I think he is the best manager they would have hired in years. More so, because it would mean that he'd never manager for us, and I wanted Klopp at United at some point. :(
 
Will be an improvement on Rogers and that by itself is why I don't like Klopp going there! Doubt he'd get his brand of football instilled with the current squad they have so will be interesting to see how things progress.
 
I wanted to add that one of the most crucial things CEO Watzke did in that regard was enforcing all players to sign contracts in which a third of the pay cheque is performance-related. Of course performance doesn't translate 1:1 into club revenue but it helped reducing the debt and solidify our finances.

The main players of Klopp's team at Dortmund, unsurprisingly, were German and then Polish I think (3 I can remember off top of my head). Liverpool's core still has decent number of British and an assorted group. Do you think that much of tactical awareness and technique which German players seem to have from younger age also helped Klopp to build his squad by scouting local talent along with it being a golden period for German football with so many talented players? Will he in long term plan to build his team around German players at Liverpool by scouting from there or can he implement that style with what Liverpool have plus say younger players from England or elsewhere without having to teach them few basic things which he may have expected players in Germany to know already?

To me, his style requires lots of precision (something which comes to Germans naturally I guess :) ). Liverpool under Rodgers in 2013-14 used to press quite good too but often it used to be in first half only where through that pressing and counter they used to blow away teams in first half and second they were more content to let other team chase. Also few times they used to give indication of being tired in 2nd half resulting in conceding goals more than they did in first half.
 
He's inheriting a team with Henderson as captain, I'm not overly concerned if I'm being honest. He has a hell of lot of work to do.
 
Do you think that much of tactical awareness and technique which German players seem to have from younger age also helped Klopp to build his squad by scouting local talent along with it being a golden period for German football with so many talented players?
I would not know if there have been a lot of differences in that regards between German and English academies when Klopp was building the winning BVB squad (let's say 2009-12). I recall sighs from Nuri Sahin even years later how cumbersome tactical pre-season training in Klopp's first summer was. Given that the only player who instantly delivered on Klopp's idea was Shinji Kagawa and all others needed a season or even longer to really pick it up, I'm not inclined to attribute Klopp's success to anything German (nationality, education etc). In addition, Klopp brought in roughly as many non-Germans as Germans in the first years, and you can hardly argue that Schmelzer or Großkreutz who've been instrumental for the title have ever been considered golden talents.

Will he in long term plan to build his team around German players at Liverpool by scouting from there or can he implement that style with what Liverpool have plus say younger players from England or elsewhere without having to teach them few basic things which he may have expected players in Germany to know already?
Just my personal opinion but I think that Klopp will strive for players who have either proven or he's confident they will be able to adapt to his style. He wouldn't go for a Mesut Özil, for example, just because he's been through a German academy.

Klopp badly wanted Kevin de Bruyne after his loan to Werder, and Kevin wanted to come, too; but as we know Mourinho prevented this move to materialize. He also was after Isco, Benteke, Lukaku, Jackson Martinez to name a few non-Germans but they couldn't be lured to Dortmund (most likely for mainly financial reasons). Obviously no proof but hints to me that he doesn't prefer one football education or nationality over another.

IMHO he will look at youngsters he was after during his Dortmund spell but couldn't get (and are coincidently German) who are now a bit more established, namely Julian Brandt (from Wolfsburg's academy to Leverkusen) and Leon Goretzka (from Bochum to Schalke). He's also known to be a fan of Max Meyer who would have never moved from Schalke to BVB. Klopp also liked Julian Draxler, and according to a Schalke fan I know rumors there have it that Felix Magath, head coach of Schalke at the time JD moved from youth to 1st team and therefore considered by some to have "discovered" him, only had a good look at him after Dortmund asked about his availability.

I don't expect an immediate turnaround, his style of football will require some time to implement, though I have no doubt that he'll get there. Also,the club and the fans expectation should not be winning the title at this stage, but making themselves a regular fixture in the CL for the next 2-3 years.
That's something I would fully subscribe to. The key question is whether the owners, fans and media will be that realistic. The hype is already unbearable now, and expectations far too exaggerated.
 
I agree with you that our first 11 is better, squad too, considerably better in fact if we consider the individual players. However, our tactics and lack of depth will mean we're easy enough to predict and Klopp will get an average Liverpool side psyched up and playing as a team. Team > individuals and so I believe he'll get them finishing above us.

I can't believe I just read that :wenger:
 
Would anyone happily see Van Gaal sacked today if it meant we got Klopp?

Not really, United have made their pick, might as well live with it. Now if the choice was Van Gaal signing an extension v. getting Klopp, that might be worth considering.
 
The German Brendan Rodgers as I classified him 6 months ago. I know my football.

@Crossie Is it rival fans or the media building up the unrealistic expectations? I don't know many Pool fans that are saying he'll win us the league now or next season. I'm sure the owners don't expect a league title. Just to finish top four with other teams floundering and stuttering.
 
@Crossie Is it rival fans or the media building up the unrealistic expectations? I don't know many Pool fans that are saying he'll win us the league now or next season. I'm sure the owners don't expect a league title. Just to finish top four with other teams floundering and stuttering.
Very good question. I don't have LFC fans around me, and therefore my impressions are based on media reports and social media (including references to owner's expectations). That's certainly not the most balanced impression, my bad. :)

It's good to hear that fans like you don't mount as much pressure on him as the media (if his move is gonna happen which needs to be confirmed yet). The EPL top 4 are more competitive than the Bundesliga, and Klopp won't have a proper preparation time for months to come; therefore I expect only incremental successful implementation in terms of style over the course of the season but a much quicker change in attitude.
 
Really like the guy and his take on exciting counter attacking football which I miss about us. Was never a fan of Tiki taka.
That being said, don't expect him to turn Liverpool into challengers anytime soon.
Also, we chose the direction and style of play we want for the club by choosing LVG - we have steadily grown towards it and are getting better at it. Id rather us stick to it now as we dont want to be constantly changing directions. The question is, from whatever little we saw of Giggs as manager, I have an uneasy feeling that we will be in for another overhaul post LVG
 
It took him a while until Dortmund started playing world class football. His philosophy of super aggressive pressing and quick counters isn't something you learn overnight. I don't expect wonders from Liverpool this season. However, they are going to be a really uncomfortable side to play against in the future.

I also think that despite our rivalry with them it's actually great news for the Premier League and the English national team. Klopp will help modernise football in this country and turn some average players into world beaters.
 
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It took him a while until Dortmund started playing world class football. His philosophy of super aggressive pressing and quick counters isn't something you learn overnight. I don't expect wonders from Liverpool this season. However, they are going to be a really uncomfortable side to play against in the future.

I also think that despite our rivalry with them it's actually great news for the Premier League and the English national team. Klopp will help modernise football in this country and turn some average players into world beaters.
How? You talk as if the EPL has not seen any world class coaches/managers prior to Klopp.
 
Really like the guy and his take on exciting counter attacking football which I miss about us. Was never a fan of Tiki taka.
That being said, don't expect him to turn Liverpool into challengers anytime soon.
Also, we chose the direction and style of play we want for the club by choosing LVG - we have steadily grown towards it and are getting better at it. Id rather us stick to it now as we dont want to be constantly changing directions. The question is, from whatever little we saw of Giggs as manager, I have an uneasy feeling that we will be in for another overhaul post LVG

Depends what you mean by challengers.

This year, I'm hoping for/expecting a Europa League spot & one or two good cup runs. Next year, with his philosophy in place, and some good signings, a push for top 3/4 shouldn't be out of the question (I know we're not as well off as the current "big" four, but our owners aren't shy to spend, and Klopp might actually bring the right players in). As long as we challenge for the trophies we're in & start looking up the league instead of down, that's all I want.

After that? Who knows... We're getting way ahead of ourselves here. It isn't even official yet!
 
Regarding Giggs as our future coach: I don't see how a long carreer as a player is good enough of a credential to coach a world class team. Modern coaches nowadays are more and more intellectuals with a great knowledge of football theory (Guardiola, Tuchel, Mourinho, van Gaal), tactics have never been more important in the game than today. Giggs will have to bring the same sort of insight and obsession for the finer details to the table in order to compete.
 
How? You talk as if the EPL has not seen any world class coaches/managers prior to Klopp.

Far from it. I'm just saying that he'll help on this path. I am particularily interested what he'll do with Henderson and Sturridge, there's so much untapped potential in those guys.

By the way, I regard van Gaal as world class, too. What he did to Ajax and the Dutch national team was some brilliant work. He also laid the foundation of the Bayern we see today.
 
Liverpool had done a right thing to go after Klopp,they would give him time to settle in and develop.
 
Far from it. I'm just saying that he'll help on this path. I am particularily interested what he'll do with Henderson and Sturridge, there's so much untapped potential in those guys.

By the way, I regard van Gaal as world class, too. What he did to Ajax and the Dutch national team was some brilliant work. He also laid the foundation of the Bayern we see today.
All I was questioning was your statement about how Klopp would modernise English football and make average players world beaters. There is only so much polishing a turd!
 
Even in our most successful years, I didn't fall in love with Klopp or praised him as a saint. Therefore didn't take your post as a dig, honestly. It's just that there is so much incorrect information or information without proper context on him and / or Dortmund out here that it seems necessary to point it out. No question that you're entitled to your opinion (that's what a forum is about, isn't it) but your response is based again on a lot of either incorrect information or an opinion that you may have rather exclusively. :)

Dortmund's squad 07/08 that finished 13th was nowhere near decency, not to mention second (on paper) as you said in your previous post: Dortmund had finished as 9th and 7th the seasons before, and I doubt that you will find more than 10 football fans under the sun who had watched the Bundesliga at that time who would agree with you that this team was rated highly and just had a jinxed campaign as e.g. the squad Klopp's last season.

Secondly, as others have pointed out, we didn't have decent resources at that time. It was a shoe string budget with next to no net spending (€1.5m in the summer Klopp came; €4.5m in 09/10; €1.0 in 11/12 etc).

In fact, Zorc and Watzke had one obligatory condition for Klopp's hire: He was required to agree on working with players the club already had, adding only mostly inexpensive youngsters (either from the club's youth or brought in).

As for existing potential: Mats Hummels was brought into the squad on loan 6 months before Klopp arrived. He also found Kehl, Dede, Kuba and Weidenfeller in the squad from whom not all were rated highly (i.e. Kuba). 5 players Klopp inherited played a role in his further plans. That's leaves plenty of deadwood left in my books.

It's also a myth which I read somewhere on the Caf that Klopp benefitted a lot from our youth system. Schmelzer played in our 2nd team but hadn't been considered 1st-team worthy before Klopp arrived. (Fun fact: They had already scouted Schmelzer during their days at Mainz before it became clear they'd move to BVB.) Nuri Sahin returned from loan to Feyenoord because he wasn't favoured by Klopp's predecessor. Kevin Großkreutz and Mario Götze are the only inexpensive other BVB youngsters who followed one summer later (Großkreutz had to be bought back from from a lower tier club).

The likes of Subotic, Bender, Barrios, Kagawa, Lewandowski, Piszczek, Santana, Gündogan etc were all bought by Klopp.

Taken together, Klopp didn't just mildly overhaul or helped an under-performing team to reach their potential. That's very far from reality.

I agree with those, however, who say it'll be a much tougher challenge to make Liverpool title contenders than Dortmund.
Fair enough. Clearly you know more about the topic than me so I stand corrected. As to the bold bit above, though, I didn't say that. What I said - and have clarified further later on - is that he improved a weaker team to the point where they were the second best side in Germany (on paper) at which point they won 2 league titles. I wasn't suggesting they were the second best side throughout his time there. Basically I was refererring to the 08 team as the starting point when I said:

He did a really good job to improve to the point of being the second best group of players in Germany (on paper), but IMO he did an even better job turning a squad that was (again, on paper) not as good, man for man, as Bayern's, into a much better team than them.

and the latter part of the above referred to the squad in the two league title winning seasons which, IMO, was still, on paper, weaker than that which Bayern had, albeit their team was much better.

Beyond that I don't intend trying to argue myself out of this corner I'm in. Clearly my knowledge of this stuff isn't as good as yours.
 
Would anyone happily see Van Gaal sacked today if it meant we got Klopp?

For feck's sake :drool:

I think a lot of people, me included, would have chosen Klopp over LvG after Moyes got the boot, but that's rather irrelevant now.

We've made our choice and will have to stick with it for at least this season. If we were going to fire the current managed no matter what once Klopp became available, we should have just appointed Giggs as a permanent interim manager or something. No point in going for a long term team builder like LvG if we weren't serious about it.
 
Would anyone happily see Van Gaal sacked today if it meant we got Klopp?

Obviously I have to say yes after my comments about Klopp.

However, this is not because I do not rate LvG as a brilliant manager but the main reasons are:

-) Klopp could be a long term solution.
-) I prefer to watch his style of football to what we showed over the past few years.

However, LvG did some good rebuilding work for us which should not be thrown overboard.
 
@Brophs
It looks as if I've misread parts of your posts, as I got the impression that you considered the squad Klopp inherited as second best in terms of quality in the league and took them to the title. That would have been an opinion very diffcult to defend. ;)
 
All I was questioning was your statement about how Klopp would modernise English football and make average players world beaters. There is only so much polishing a turd!

The problem with English football in the last few years has not been so much player material as the fact that most teams are tactically hopelessly outdated (pressing / counter-pressing), most notably Man City and Chelsea, but definitely Liverpool as well. I expect Klopp and his staff to bring Liverpool up to date. He gets the best out of his players because he's a great motivator. You'll see some of these guys work twice as hard pretty soon. The work rate Dortmund displayed at some point was just mind-boggling. It lifted every player's performance, that club was punching far above its weight, killing Real Madrid. All of this is very comparable to Simeone's Athletico. A bunch of no-names suddenly performing at the highest level due to superior team tactics and work ethic.

With regards to polishing a turd, looking at Liverpool's team sheet I see a bunch of potentially great players who are currently underperforming.
 
The thing with Klopp is that he's the type of manager that players want to play for and will therefore join the club simply to be managed by the guy. That's something Liverpool haven't ever had since I've followed football in the 90's.
 
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