Scholes can't defend though. Basically in that situation you're replacing Scholes with Strootman who is a more mobile player a much better one on one ball winner and has a decent enough range of passing. For every longer pass he will always have the ability to move the ball out 5/10 yards and dish it off to Carrick.
Kevin Strootman
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Scholes can't defend though. Basically in that situation you're replacing Scholes with Strootman who is a more mobile player a much better one on one ball winner and has a decent enough range of passing. For every longer pass he will always have the ability to move the ball out 5/10 yards and dish it off to Carrick.
He isn't mobile, in fact he's incredibly clumsy and gets caught flat footed quite easily.
Scholes didnt need to defend. Carrick did that. He still does that. Thats why you can afford a much more offensive partner for him. We dont need a Barry-Milner midfield
If you look at Carricks numbers this past season he was way down to the point of being worse than some attacking midfielders. At this point in his career it's adamant we start looking to free his role from defending.
Regardless of whether Carrick and Strootman would be effective together, we will need a replacement for Carrick in two years most likely. That's where I think Strootman could be very valuable. A ready made replacement with obvious leadership qualities in the middle of the park, coming into his prime as Carrick begins to slow down.
If we could get Thiago and Strootman this summer it would be ideal I think.
If we could get Thiago and Strootman this summer it would be ideal I think.
That's not what Cryuff said. He was talking about how having two defensive midfielders starting will hinder the build-up play. Strootman can play as a defensive midfielder or box-to-box midfielder. Cryuff's comments were also, I believe, in relation to the awful Van Bommel and De Jong partnership in Euro 2012. Holland found it hard to build attacks, hence they were knocked out early.
Anyway, lads, here's the Strootman vs. Italy video (his best performance in the competition):
That is absolutely ridiculous. Before this one season he averaged 3 tackles a game, more than any non-pure DM (who only tackles and nothing else) in the league. Is Rooney no longer a goalscorer because he didnt score lots of goals last season? Is Valencia no longer a winger because he couldnt beat a man and cross last season?
If his mentality is as good as it sounds, that is in many ways what clinches it for me. United have very often had less flashy players than our competitors, but ones who are more professional and more driven. If he's already the Dutch VC at 22, that speaks volumes about the kind of player he is, more so than YouTube clips or what not.
Will be interesting. There has to be something with this transfer - too many stories for too long for it to be otherwise.
Will be interesting. There has to be something with this transfer - too many stories for too long for it to be otherwise.
Are you sure about that?
Seems that Faurlin, Cattermole, Parker, Sandro, Cabaye, Diame, Dembele and Allen were all tackling over 3pg. None of these players bar maybe Dembele have the attacking pass range that Carrick does however. (Not the season gone the one before it.)
Down to 2.3 this past season, 2.1 interceptions. Measuring it up to other direct ball winners in the league he's down outside the top 20 and 40 which is saying that we can certainly put a better ball winner beside him and free him up to expand on the sublime attacking ability and passing range that he showed this season gone. It's an ability worth bolstering not trying to shoehorn him into a hybrid DM with great attacking ability. That time has gone. Best to make use of his talents now by taking the defensive pressure of him.
Honestly don't know what you're going on about with Rooney and Vlaencia.
Anyways, I am surprised Ola Toivonen hasn't been mentioned either. He's a solidly built and well skilled midfielder who could be an option though he's a touch older.
Don't know why I can't view the video. Is it working for you guys? By the way, since I used Kanye West music, the video is blocked in Germany.
Carrick made an average of 3 tackles. Only DMs managed more than that as you've already been told
Even if he forgot how to tackle, which he hasnt, it wouldnt suddenly mean he's Riquelme and needs to be released further forward. He's still Michael Carrick with a lot more ideas of how to defend than ghaliboy from the internet
Cabaye, Dembele.
He should have probably put them to good use this season then. He's not had the best season defensively and there are other ways to utilize a players ability. It's not as though Giggs has been playing on the wing for the last 8 years has he?
Couldn't get it to work. But it was probably because I read that you used Kanye West music and didn't click it.
Hahaha.
Dembele who's outstanding ability is winning the ball and dribbling, Cabaye who's outstanding ability is winning the ball and passing. They play from defensive midfield
Carrick is just a deep midfielder. Tackling isnt and never was his best skill. But only a fool thinks he cant do it or enough of a defensive shift to protect a back four. His entire United career tells you differently. Only it sounds like you havent followed it very well
There's an issue when you become too absolutist in relation to discussing football. It's clear Ekeke thinks playing Carrick and Strootman together is suicide. I wonder what he thought when we played Carrick and Fletcher together. I just find it slightly interesting that such strong views are being expressed when we know feck all how Moyes will employ tactics/formations and we haven't seen Strootman in our midfield yet.
If he does come here, I think we'll get our full answer then. There's more than one way to play the game. I don't mind having Strootman here as he'll be another CM who can offer defensive solidity and can partner Carrick as well. I agree with the notion we need two CMs. Consider the scenario in which we only sign Thiago and we employ the 4-2-3-1 system we used last season. While in Ekeke's eyes, we would have the ideal partnership, in the case Carrick sustains an injury, our cover for Carrick is no better than the previous season. Therefore, while progress was made, you still have that annoying thorn in your side. We would probably need to utilize a midfield 3 in order to cover for Carrick's absence. Is that the best option? Hard to know.
Now if we have both Thiago and Strootman, I think we have the best of both worlds. Cover for Carrick. More options in midfield. Strengthening both the defensive and offensive aspects of our midfield. Two young prospects, one who looks to be a world beater. Another who could be Carrick's understudy. What's not to love?
It may not be the most ideal scenario but if we sign both of these lads, I would be pleased. Sometimes, you can't get what you want. If Fergie's word about not going for a CM because we couldn't find the new Robbo or Keano is true, it just shows what can happen when you wait for the ideal signing. Once again, Strootman may not be the ideal signing for some of you (i.e. Ekeke), but I think it's not the worst signing we could make for our midfield. I feel with this midfield issue, when it comes to correcting it, we want it to be solved right away. However, rarely do these type of opportunities materialise. Sometimes, you just have to take a punt with a player and that's what we're doing with Strootman. Hell even Thiago but he's more likely to succeed than Strootman.
If he does come here, I think we'll get our full answer then. There's more than one way to play the game. I don't mind having Strootman here as he'll be another CM who can offer defensive solidity and can partner Carrick as well. I agree with the notion we need two CMs. Consider the scenario in which we only sign Thiago and we employ the 4-2-3-1 system we used last season. While in Ekeke's eyes, we would have the ideal partnership, in the case Carrick sustains an injury, our cover for Carrick is no better than the previous season. Therefore, while progress was made, you still have that annoying thorn in your side. We would probably need to utilize a midfield 3 in order to cover for Carrick's absence. Is that the best option? Hard to know.
Now if we have both Thiago and Strootman, I think we have the best of both worlds. Cover for Carrick. More options in midfield. Strengthening both the defensive and offensive aspects of our midfield. Two young prospects, one who looks to be a world beater. Another who could be Carrick's understudy. What's not to love?
It may not be the most ideal scenario but if we sign both of these lads, I would be pleased. Sometimes, you can't get what you want. If Fergie's word about not going for a CM because we couldn't find the new Robbo or Keano is true, it just shows what can happen when you wait for the ideal signing. Once again, Strootman may not be the ideal signing for some of you (i.e. Ekeke), but I think it's not the worst signing we could make for our midfield. I feel with this midfield issue, when it comes to correcting it, we want it to be solved right away. However, rarely do these type of opportunities materialise. Sometimes, you just have to take a punt with a player and that's what we're doing with Strootman. Hell even Thiago but he's more likely to succeed than Strootman.
This is a fair point, no doubt. But what actually happened - with Fergie in charge - wasn´t all that dramatic, one might argue. We did remarkably well for a team that according to many fans didn´t have a proper CM for the best part of a decade!
It other words, it also goes to show that - as you say yourself - there are more ways than one to play the game. Fergie strengthened the team in other departments and somehow managed to get away with not strengthening the middle of the park at all for many seasons on end. The last CM he bought in an attempt to positively strengthen us was Hargreaves, who was a very decent player at the time, but a complete crock - as we all know.
I firmly believe Moyes won´t emulate Fergie in this particular regard. He will do something about our CM situation, be it to introduce a different set-up, buy one or two players or a combination of the two. He won´t continue to play a Fergie style hit-em-on-the-counter game. Which is a shame in one sense, because I love that style - when you manage to pull it off, there´s no brand of football more entertaining to watch (in my opinion). But then again, it was Fergie´s game - and Fergie is a bleedin´genius. Moyes is a mere mortal in comparison - and as such he should probably seek to do things a little bit less risky, at least to begin with.
If we buy Thiago - great. He´s obviously a major talent. But what we really, really need - entering broken record mode yet again - is cover for Carrick. As you very rightly say having Thiago on board doesn´t solve the potential crisis we face with Carrick out injured for any length of time. This is a real problem - one that I hope Moyes will address as one of his first orders of business.
Seemed SAF thought dropping Rooney in midfield was cover enough for Carrick. He seemed to revel in the role for a while, being dubbed as Scholes' successor by some here.
Any decent CM in the kids team with any chance of breaking through the ranks?
Not for a year or two IMO. Cole (very) maybe... Tunnicliffe unlikely, Ekangemene or Pearson in a couple of years.
@Platato, Ekeke here doesn't have a clue really.
Not sure what that achieved? But there you have it.
Ekeke said it himself. There is a distinct lack of one on one defensive ability when Carrick is left all alone to do it. When you look back through the years when he has played he's had players like Fletcher, O'shea and Hargreaves doing a lot of the run and gun defensive work. With Carrick not getting younger and his ability this year to be extremely effective in attack you'd only have to look at that aspect to see that it's probably worth propping up the midfield and freeing him from doing the dirty work in midfield rather than getting a genuine attacking player to leave Carrick to do the majority of the defending. It is one thing that sorely lacked when we were trying to shut out games. When teams countered they all rushed straight into that central zone and at Carrick.
I still go back and watch games with Fletcher from 2008 and 2009 and the way we defend and protect the back four was entirely different to what we were seeing in this season gone. Fletchers ability to read play and stick tight to players and push play away from danger areas has been sorely missed and I hope that he does come back to something close to that form because I am absolutely gutted for him. I can see Strootman judging from the opinions in here that he can defend or with a view to signing him could handle the defensive side of a midfield partnership and one that could grow with Carrick.
I didn't watch the Italy game live, but from that youtube video, that's the type of performance that I usually saw while watching PSV last season. Earlier on in the thread, someone said that he isn't the type to master the midfielder and control the tempo. That is totally wrong.
In my opinion, I'd say Strootman is similar to Javi Martinez in terms of playing style. The latter is of course the better player, which is no insult to Strootman at all. Strootman can "lock" the midfield - he reads the game very well. Plus, he has a wide range of passing and he shifts from passing from side-to-side to a more advanced direct form of passing in an instant.
I've said it for a few months now, but I'd love to see him here. In the long-term, he'd be a fantastic replacement when Carrick eventually goes down the gears a bit. In the short-term, he'd be a good partner for him. I can see why some might say that he's too similar to Carrick, but I don't see Carrick making those advanced runs that Strootman makes.
I mean, I've personally not seen Carrick make these kind of runs:
First goal:
Captain-material. If he joins us, I'd say within 5 years he'll be at least our vice-captain.
By the way, there's been rumours going round on random websites that Napoli want him. feck off Benitez.
In my opinion, I'd say Strootman is similar to Javi Martinez in terms of playing style. The latter is of course the better player, which is no insult to Strootman at all. Strootman can "lock" the midfield - he reads the game very well. Plus, he has a wide range of passing and he shifts from passing from side-to-side to a more advanced direct form of passing in an instant.
I've said it for a few months now, but I'd love to see him here. In the long-term, he'd be a fantastic replacement when Carrick eventually goes down the gears a bit. In the short-term, he'd be a good partner for him. I can see why some might say that he's too similar to Carrick, but I don't see Carrick making those advanced runs that Strootman makes.
I mean, I've personally not seen Carrick make these kind of runs:
First goal:
Captain-material. If he joins us, I'd say within 5 years he'll be at least our vice-captain.
By the way, there's been rumours going round on random websites that Napoli want him. feck off Benitez.
Wow, that first Volley was Giggs-esque. Did not think he had that sort of ability TBH.
Is it fair to say for Holland he was almost being held back a little, to let the others attack without worry?
Is it fair to say for Holland he was almost being held back a little, to let the others attack without worry?
Due to the personnel he was working with in the midfield, I'd say that was the case. I had no idea about Van Gaal or whatever their names are. But Strootman seems to play a deeper role for the U21s than what he usually plays for PSV.
It worked for me.
I didnt see the game but it seems like he had a very good match, and that shows perfectly what he is all about.
Lots of interceptions, some neat passing and general workhorse midfield display. Think he and Carrick could develop a very decent midfield partnership. Add in Thiago for creativity and we have ourselves a 3 man mid
Him and Thiago....I'd be over the moon.
I can't help but laugh at the doom merchants here, this guy sounds like exactly what our midfield could do with yet people have lost all hope due to the fact that he didn't have the best of tournaments due to being played in a different position. Strong mobile and has an eye for a pass aswell as the goal. We haven't had a midfielder that can shoot from range since scholes. I for one will be delighted if we sign him. Even more so if we sign thiago between I'm strootman and carrick we would have 3 fantastic passers of the ball
It's quite bizarre.
For the first time in years we might actually be about to sign a midfielder capable of performing the roll we've been severely lacking in and the majority on here spend their time moaning that he's not who they want.
Not having a go at what you said. Just don't understand how he was played out of position. He looked quite at home with how he was playing.
My only quip with this is the fact we're talking about Sir Alex Ferguson here. Very few managers could win the way we did with a weakened midfield. It's an anomaly in my opinion. You're right. In other areas, we were well-stocked but Sir Alex made sure our most deficient area didn't cost us success. We can also thank Carrick's presence for that.
Point being, if we're ever in that type of situation again, I don't expect us to be quite so successful.
Fully agree on that. It was in many ways an anomaly. The saying that any football match is won and lost in midfield didn't apply to us under Fergie - not since the heyday of Roy Keane. But Fergie's style was more and more an anachronism, there's no denying this. We were saved by having a top notch back four and wingers. And towards the very end we were saved by signing an exceptionally good striker. Well, that's exaggerating a bit to make a point. But the point is still valid: Fergie made us win in spite of having a sub-par CM compared to our rivals. Not a shite midfield by any stretch, but sub-par, strictly speaking. It worked for him - but it's highly doubtful anyone else could've pulled it off.
We were saved? We ran away with the fecking league.
Well if the recent interview with his agent tells us anything, it's that the whole 'done deal, months ago' talk was all bull.
Doesn't sound like a done deal according to that, looks like we might pass on him after all.
We don't really know. That seems to be the problem with agents. Can we really trust what they say in public?
nah, Strootman is the man to bring steel and personality to our midfield. Im sure he will be great for us... (if we sign him)
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