Kai Havertz

[Open Goal]

this guys watched a Havertz YouTube video on repeat for 2 days and suddenly he’s a scouting expert.

Don’t worry @Open Goal I'm sure somebody will be hiring you very soon for such insightful analysis!

I follow bundesliga And serie a religiously. Leverkusen And Dortmund games especially in the bundesliga. No need to throw crap on the wall like you have with your comments mate.

Actually going to go ahead and ignore you because youre out of your depth and just arguing for the sake of it.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Of course that's possible, but I see some people comparing him to Zidane, some people saying he has a "super high IQ" like some form of robot.

He's had good games, but he's had bad ones too. You're comparing him to KDB already? I think it's just a step too far.

I think he will take time to adjust to the pace of the PL. You don't get the space in attacking positions like you do in Germany that's for sure.

I never said he was a bad player, I do think he's good especially for his age, but people just need to settle down a little as they're going to expect Mbappe levels from the way you and super scout keep talking about him.

He's certainly nowhere near KdB right now, but he's better than KdB was at the same age - KdB was still at Genk for his age 20 season.

Agreed with the bolded though. Mbappe is on another planet in terms of young players in world football; expecting anyone to be on his level will lead to disappointment.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I follow bundesliga And serie a religiously. Leverkusen And Dortmund games especially in the bundesliga. No need to throw crap on the wall like you have with your comments mate.

Thank you sir, I was just following the theme you started with your analysis.

Thankfully I was having trouble sleeping this week, but that sure helped.

 

[cyberman]

I follow bundesliga And serie a religiously. Leverkusen And Dortmund games especially in the bundesliga. No need to throw crap on the wall like you have with your comments mate.

Actually going to go ahead and ignore you because youre out of your depth and just arguing for the sake of it.

All United fans here follow Utd yet youlll see huge arguments about relative strengths of players that everybody has seen hours of footage on.
Plus theres a reason why scouts actually go to games.

 

[Adam-Utd]

He's certainly nowhere near KdB right now, but he's better than KdB was at the same age - KdB was still at Genk for his age 20 season.

Agreed with the bolded though. Mbappe is on another planet in terms of young players in world football; expecting anyone to be on his level will lead to disappointment.

For £80m they sure better hope he's close! I know if United were signing him he'd have to be playing like Zidane and Ballack combined.

Anyway most of this is tongue in cheek, I can see what talents he has but I think he will end up being a striker rather than an attacking midfield personally.

I can see Lampard Pairing Werner/Havertz together to replace Girouds aerial ability once he slows down a bit.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I follow bundesliga And serie a religiously. Leverkusen And Dortmund games especially in the bundesliga. No need to throw crap on the wall like you have with your comments mate.

Actually going to go ahead and ignore you because youre out of your depth and just arguing for the sake of it.

Mate, you should quit while you're ahead. Asking that your post get stickied is cringeworthy to say the least and it's perfectly understandable that you're getting roasted for it.

 

[Open Goal]

All United fans here follow Utd yet youlll see huge argumennts about relative strengths of players that everybody has seen hours of footage on.
Plus theres a reason why scouts actually go to games.

I honestly believe United are underrated. I like Ole as a person, but if United had an elite manager they should be challenging for the CL trophy Next season. People talk down on Maguire a lot but him and AWB have transformed you to top 3 defenses in the world in my view. It will only get better as season go. Pochettino would be a great manager for your team and I think United should go for someone like him.
If you get Sancho and a manager like Pochettino youre dark horses for the CL next season.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

For £80m they sure better hope he's close! I know if United were signing him he'd have to be playing like Zidane and Ballack combined.

Anyway most of this is tongue in cheek, I can see what talents he has but I think he will end up being a striker rather than an attacking midfield personally.

I can see Lampard Pairing Werner/Havertz together to replace Girouds aerial ability once he slows down a bit.

Considering City spent €75m on KdB when he was 24 & prior to PSG destroying the market with Neymar, I don't think the fee is that extortionate!

We'll see what his final position ends up being; personally I think he's too good carrying the ball from deeper positions to be played as a striker. I know his goal-scoring is best from there but personally I don't reckon this is the best way to get the most out of him.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I honestly believe United are underrated. I like Ole as a person, but if United had an elite manager they should be challenging for the CL trophy Next season. People talk down on Maguire a lot but him and AWB have transformed you to top 3 defenses in the world in my view. It will only get better as season go. Pochettino would be a great manager for your team and I think United should go for someone like him.
If you get Sancho and a manager like Pochettino youre dark horses for the CL next season.

What on earth?? You think that Man United are better than all but two of Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Manchester City, & Sevilla? Curious to hear this argument.

 

[Open Goal]

Mate, you should quit while you're ahead. Asking that your post get stickied is cringeworthy to say the least and it's perfectly understandable that you're getting roasted for it.

I agree with it being cringeworthy, but that comes from being tired of reading arguments on here like broken records between Chelsea and United fans who have no clear idea what position Havertz even plays to begin with. Were all reading two people arguing over something theyre both wrong about to start with.
A cringe quick analysis who Havertz even is saves a lot of arguments on this thread.

 

[Open Goal]

What on earth?? You think that Man United are better than all but two of Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Manchester City, & Sevilla? Curious to hear this argument.

Yes, potential is there absolutely with the correct manager. Deadly attack with a strong midfield and a steel defense. Adding Sancho to the mix and absolutely they're CL contenders. Again, with the right manager emphasis.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I agree with it being cringeworthy, but that comes from being tired of reading arguments on here like broken records between Chelsea and United fans who have no clear idea what position Havertz even plays to begin with. Were all reading two people arguing over something theyre both wrong about to start with.
A cringe quick analysis who Havertz even is saves a lot of arguments on this thread.

Understandable but you'll have to build a thicker skin if you want to survive here! Don't think @Adam-Utd did anything wrong personally, just have to accept the banter.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Yes, potential is there absolutely with the correct manager. Deadly attack with a strong midfield and a steel defense. Adding Sancho to the mix and absolutely they're CL contenders. Again, with the right manager emphasis.

I'm sorry but all of those teams are better defensively than Man United. Attack has nothing to do with it.

I agree that United are CL contenders, but my specific point was to do with your assertion that they're already a top 3 defense in the world. I find this a crazy point of view.

 

[slyadams]

Speaking of Oscar, I was genuinely confused by his move to China at such a young age. Talent like that gone to waste in my opinion.

Time Vickery has a superb take on this. Oscar comes from an extremely poor background, his entire life he was striving to make it as a professional footballer not for trophies or glory but because him making it meant he could lift his entire family out of poverty for generations. To us in Western Europe, we look at this as a waste of talent, he looks at this as 100% mission accomplished. Who are we to judge tbh?

 

[E-mal]

What on earth?? You think that Man United are better than all but two of Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Bayern Munich, Liverpool, Manchester City, & Sevilla? Curious to hear this argument.

Using clean sheets and goals conceded is not the best metric of one's defensive strength in my view. I must say that the reason we have conceded less than your team is because we set up more defensive against decent opposition, hence score lines like 5-3, 4-0 3-2 are quite rare with United.
Your manager should consider being alittle more conservative in big games untill youre confident about your team's defence.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I agree with it being cringeworthy, but that comes from being tired of reading arguments on here like broken records between Chelsea and United fans who have no clear idea what position Havertz even plays to begin with. Were all reading two people arguing over something theyre both wrong about to start with.
A cringe quick analysis who Havertz even is saves a lot of arguments on this thread.

If you're coming onto a public forum, you need to understand that people will have a different opinion to you.

You keep saying "they're wrong, i'm right"... you do realise YOU might actually be wrong yourself?

Your attitude is making you sound like you're better than everybody else, but as far as i'm aware you are no professional? so don't get upset if somebody doesn't agree with you.

 

[Zehner]

Of course that's possible, but I see some people comparing him to Zidane, some people saying he has a "super high IQ" like some form of robot.

He's had good games, but he's had bad ones too. You're comparing him to KDB already? I think it's just a step too far.

I think he will take time to adjust to the pace of the PL. You don't get the space in attacking positions like you do in Germany that's for sure.

I never said he was a bad player, I do think he's good especially for his age, but people just need to settle down a little as they're going to expect Mbappe levels from the way you and super scout keep talking about him.

I disagree completely. The EPL used to have higher pace but that was primarily due to most English teams kept playing football that was tactically outdated. Bottom and mid table teams are still doing that while the top teams have finally made their homework and adjusted their playing styles to modern approaches (high pressing, counterpressing, fast transitions, controlled build up instead of rushed box to box action and longballs, etc.). The main reason for that is that foreign top coaches joined the league (Klopp, Guardiola, Sarri, Conte, Hasenhüttl, etc.) while some of the old guard finally left (Wenger).

Still, teams in the Bundesliga press much more ferociously than their English counterparts which means that there's significantly less space for midfielders. Fabregas exemplarily said that when Özil signed for Arsenal. And no, I'm not comparing him with de Bruyne, I explicitly said that he would be the best CAM in the EPL if it wasn't for the Belgian. But that's also because currently, there's not really an abundance of great attacking midfielders in England.

However, I think you underrate him because his playing style is rather subtle than spectacular - his type of player usually gets more love from Spanish/Italian fans than British ones. You need to watch closely to understand why he's so good. His movement, timing and problem solution in tight spaces is outstanding. I don't think there's another midfielder currently in world football who's so pressing resistant and confident in his passing while simultaneously posing such a goal threat. His finishing in the box is downright exceptional. He outperforms his xG by quite a margin which usually only few players with high goal output accomplish. All the while maintaining 85% passing accuracy although he played almost a third of his matches as a striker. De Bruyne exemplarily is at 81% passing accuracy and significantly underperforms in terms of xG, suggesting that Havertz chance conversion is already better than his.

 

[Zehner]

He's certainly nowhere near KdB right now, but he's better than KdB was at the same age - KdB was still at Genk for his age 20 season.

Agreed with the bolded though. Mbappe is on another planet in terms of young players in world football; expecting anyone to be on his level will lead to disappointment.

I think Sancho has a higher ceiling than Mbappe. Havertz probably not but that's okay, Mbappe is a monster.

 

[Open Goal]

If you're coming onto a public forum, you need to understand that people will have a different opinion to you.

You keep saying "they're wrong, i'm right"... you do realise YOU might actually be wrong yourself?

Your attitude is making you sound like you're better than everybody else, but as far as i'm aware you are no professional? so don't get upset if somebody doesn't agree with you.

I apologize if I came off that way. I am new to the forum and will try better to be wary of how I might come off to others.

I disagree completely. The EPL used to have higher pace but that was primarily due to most English teams kept playing football that was tactically outdated. Bottom and mid table teams are still doing that while the top teams have finally made their homework and adjusted their playing styles to modern approaches (high pressing, counterpressing, fast transitions, controlled build up instead of rushed box to box action and longballs, etc.). The main reason for that is that foreign top coaches joined the league (Klopp, Guardiola, Sarri, Conte, Hasenhüttl, etc.) while some of the old guard finally left (Wenger).

Still, teams in the Bundesliga press much more ferociously than their English counterparts which means that there's significantly less space for midfielders. Fabregas exemplarily said that when Özil signed for Arsenal. And no, I'm not comparing him with de Bruyne, I explicitly said that he would be the best CAM in the EPL if it wasn't for the Belgian. But that's also because currently, there's not really an abundance of great attacking midfielders in England.

However, I think you underrate him because his playing style is rather subtle than spectacular - his type of player usually gets more love from Spanish/Italian fans than British ones. You need to watch closely to understand why he's so good. His movement, timing and problem solution in tight spaces is outstanding. I don't think there's another midfielder currently in world football who's so pressing resistant and confident in his passing while simultaneously posing such a goal threat. His finishing in the box is downright exceptional. He outperforms his xG by quite a margin which usually only few players with high goal output accomplish. All the while maintaining 85% passing accuracy although he played almost a third of his matches as a striker. De Bruyne exemplarily is at 81% passing accuracy and significantly underperforms in terms of xG, suggesting that Havertz chance conversion is already better than his.

Absolutely spot on. Couldn't have said it better myself to be honest.



" I think Sancho has a higher ceiling than Mbappe. Havertz probably not but that's okay, Mbappe is a monster."
I also fully agree with this. I think Sancho has a higher ceiling then Havertz and Mbappe both. Does not mean he will become better then either, but his ceiling is higher.

 

[Adam-Utd]

@Zehner

I do agree his finishing is good, hence why I said I see him becoming a striker in the future. He seems good in the air and in the box.

Lampard seems to prefer the 3-4-3 in bigger games, so might be interesting to see if he switches to a 3-4-1-2 like Leipzig used, could Havertz be their Nkunku?

I'm not sure the point about pressing really matters when you're a forward/attacking midfielder, he's usually the one doing the pressing rather than being pressed (unless you're talking about when he's playing as a CM, but I don't see that happening at Chelsea)

I think his movement is the bit i'm interested to evaluate once he comes to England. I watch a lot of Bundesliga and teams rarely defend in deep lines, they always press high and have high defensive lines as you state. It the teams can bypass the press teams are VERY open at the back, which helps Havertz and others have a bit more space than usual. I will be interested to see how he fares against a more typical english defence like Sheffield United or Burnley etc.

Don't get me wrong I do think he's talented, scoring goals at 20 years old is always a good thing, but for me i'm reluctant to call him a world class talent just yet. I'll be happy to admit i'm wrong if he storms the league! We've seen lots of Bundesliga attacking midfielders come to England and flop badly, our own Mkhitaryan for example who I think is a similar style of player.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Using clean sheets and goals conceded is not the best metric of one's defensive strength in my view. I must say that the reason we have conceded less than your team is because we set up more defensive against decent opposition, hence score lines like 5-3, 4-0 3-2 are quite rare with United.
Your manager should consider being alittle more conservative in big games untill youre confident about your team's defence.

Oh trust me mate, I'm not stupid enough to argue that Chelsea are better than United defensively. I'm just shocked that anyone can argue in good faith that United are among the 3 best sides in the world defensively - all those I listed are better I'd argue.

I think Sancho has a higher ceiling than Mbappe. Havertz probably not but that's okay, Mbappe is a monster.

Bold claim - obviously I can't say definitively that you're wrong but I'd point to the relative difference in CL performances between the two. Mbappe has destroyed top class opposition dating back to his days at Monaco whilst Sancho hasn't really pulled up trees to the same extent.

I do agree that Havertz is a shade below those two as a prospect.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

@Zehner

I do agree his finishing is good, hence why I said I see him becoming a striker in the future. He seems good in the air and in the box.

Lampard seems to prefer the 3-4-3 in bigger games, so might be interesting to see if he switches to a 3-4-1-2 like Leipzig used, could Havertz be their Nkunku?

I'm not sure the point about pressing really matters when you're a forward/attacking midfielder, he's usually the one doing the pressing rather than being pressed (unless you're talking about when he's playing as a CM, but I don't see that happening at Chelsea)

I think his movement is the bit i'm interested to evaluate once he comes to England. I watch a lot of Bundesliga and teams rarely defend in deep lines, they always press high and have high defensive lines as you state. It the teams can bypass the press teams are VERY open at the back, which helps Havertz and others have a bit more space than usual. I will be interested to see how he fares against a more typical english defence like Sheffield United or Burnley etc.

Don't get me wrong I do think he's talented, scoring goals at 20 years old is always a good thing, but for me i'm reluctant to call him a world class talent just yet. I'll be happy to admit i'm wrong if he storms the league! We've seen lots of Bundesliga attacking midfielders come to England and flop badly, our own Mkhitaryan for example who I think is a similar style of player.

I'd just take issue here - our use of 3-4-3 seems to have been born out of necessity (i.e. Kante getting injured). What stood out to me the most about our last game vs. Wolves was that we actually were in a 4-3-3 shape for most of the game - James played as an 8 more or less and Azpilicueta moved to RB.

I think it's pretty clear Lampard's preferred formation is a 4-3-3 - I reckon Havertz would step into the right sided 8 role that Barkley has played recently.

 

[KennyBurner]

Genuinely curious as to how you came to this conclusion considering the relative quality of the leagues they're coming from as well as their accomplishments prior to the transfer.

That said, if we get 5 years out of Havertz and he then leaves for ~3 times the transfer fee I'll not complain overmuch.

He looks a good player but not of world class pedigree. He also looks like he excels more in a counter attacking setup rather than a possession based system of which lampard prefers the latter. The Oscar comparison is not really about style but more of the position. If you buy him for 90 million euros I’m afraid if you were to sell him down the line it would be for much less. You’re already overpaying by the looks of things. 55-60 seems a fair price.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Havertz looks a very good player, and Chelsea are building some attack if they get him but he's one I don't see a need for go for. With Bruno and Pogba we have enough as far as second attacking midfielders go, and if we're adding a future superstar of the game, I'd prefer Sancho anyway who looks a level ahead.

Absolutely spot on. I wish there was some way a mod would pin my analysis on the player, so people like that dont
speak nonsense for the sake of commenting.

Maybe you should first get rid of that newbie tag before worrying about your analysis being pinned.[/QUOTE]

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

He looks a good player but not of world class pedigree. He also looks like he excels more in a counter attacking setup rather than a possession based system of which lampard prefers the latter. The Oscar comparison is not really about style but more of the position. If you buy him for 90 million euros I’m afraid if you were to sell him down the line it would be for much less. You’re already overpaying by the looks of things. 55-60 seems a fair price.

This is genuinely baffling. We sold Hazard for ~4 times what we paid for him when he was 28; the only way you can actually think we'd take a loss on Havertz at age 21 is if he flops completely. You say ~€60m is a fair price but at the same time we'd have to accept far less should we sign him for €90m - do you actually think that a prime-age Havertz at 27-28 years old would go for €60m?

The Oscar comparison still makes no sense - ultimately we sold him for more than 3 times what we paid for him after 5 years at the club. If that's Havertz's destiny I'd not be particularly mad.

 

[Highfather_24]

Havertz is going to be the best AM in PL after KDB? Not really. Bruno is better for sure. Also Foden is more talented imo.

 

[KennyBurner]

Absolutely spot on. I wish there was some way a mod would pin my analysis on the player, so people like that dont
speak nonsense for the sake of commenting.

Im still laughing at this. You want your opinion to be pinned as a fact?

This is genuinely baffling. We sold Hazard for ~4 times what we paid for him when he was 28; the only way you can actually think we'd take a loss on Havertz at age 21 is if he flops completely. You say ~€60m is a fair price but at the same time we'd have to accept far less should we sign him for €90m - do you actually think that a prime-age Havertz at 27-28 years old would go for €60m?

The Oscar comparison still makes no sense - ultimately we sold him for more than 3 times what we paid for him after 5 years at the club. If that's Havertz's destiny I'd not be particularly mad.

the point is that 90 million is too high and you are overpaying. Is there any reason why you think any team would ever pay 180-270 million euros for him? Even if he was bought at 60 I don’t think he will ever be good enough to command a 120 million sale at worst.

I think he will be a Chelsea player for the next 10 years because if he ever becomes that good nobody will have the money to afford him. Or he leaves with 1 year remaining for a steep price like hazard. Look at sane for example. Chelsea however are not that careless like city.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

the point is that 90 million is too high and you are overpaying. Is there any reason why you think any team would ever pay 180-270 million euros for him? Even if he was bought at 60 I don’t think he will ever be good enough to command a 120 million sale at worst.

I think he will be a Chelsea player for the next 10 years because if he ever becomes that good nobody will have the money to afford him. Or he leaves with 1 year remaining for a steep price like hazard. Look at sane for example. Chelsea however are not that careless like city.

Well no, I don't necessarily think he'll command a €200m+ fee but I just don't see how we would ever lose money on him unless he completely flops at a Torres-esque level.

I just took issue with your assertion that he'd be a good buy at €60m but simultaneously if we buy him at €90m we're destined to lose a lot of money down the line.

 

[Zehner]

I have thought about this many times. The number of times I hear racists say I have black friends. I begin to ask myself, how many of my friends are racists?

Oh trust me mate, I'm not stupid enough to argue that Chelsea are better than United defensively. I'm just shocked that anyone can argue in good faith that United are among the 3 best sides in the world defensively - all those I listed are better I'd argue.



Bold claim - obviously I can't say definitively that you're wrong but I'd point to the relative difference in CL performances between the two. Mbappe has destroyed top class opposition dating back to his days at Monaco whilst Sancho hasn't really pulled up trees to the same extent.

I do agree that Havertz is a shade below those two as a prospect.

I've had a few discussions on here. For me, there are three elements of quality for a football player: Technical ability, physique and decision making. With young players, the first two aspects are usually the best developed. They can improve by maturing and learning from their mistakes - that's what we call potential. But Mbappe's decision making is already brillant. His physique is obviously absolutely world class. Where he's "just" an 8/10 is his technique. Sometimes he has great plays and skill moves in him but occasionally, he stumbles over his feet, forgets the ball, has a bad touch, struggles to control the ball under pressure and so forth. Sure, that's critique at a very high level but he's compared to the likes of R9, Messi, Cristiano, Neymar, etc. and I'm not seeing that he can reach their level since all of them are at least comfortably better in terms of technique. Sancho on the other hand has brillant technique. His close control is unreal and his decision making is improving day by day. You could also see that when PSG and BVB met in the CL. Sancho completely outshone Mbappe and Neymar (although the latter just came back from a long injury break). Also, Mbappe for instance had an absolutely atrocious performance against United. He lost so many balls and came across clunky. That's why I think that he's already hit his ceiling and won't improve much further from here on. Sancho on the other hand has everything a truly, truly great player needs.

I'd just take issue here - our use of 3-4-3 seems to have been born out of necessity (i.e. Kante getting injured). What stood out to me the most about our last game vs. Wolves was that we actually were in a 4-3-3 shape for most of the game - James played as an 8 more or less and Azpilicueta moved to RB.

I think it's pretty clear Lampard's preferred formation is a 4-3-3 - I reckon Havertz would step into the right sided 8 role that Barkley has played recently.

The right 8 in a 4-3-3 is his best position if you ask me. That's where his strengths unfold best. He can utilize his pressing resistance and passing ability and at the same time has opportunities to make his runs into the box and finish off attacks. He's could be great as a number 10 or false 9 since he's got the perfect skill set for those positions but so far, his best games occurred when he was played in midfield.

 

[Ødegaard]

Don't get the talk about increase in value. The goal surely is to have a top player for 10 years, not to have one for 3 and sell him on for a profit.

 

[meamth]

I honestly believe United are underrated. I like Ole as a person, but if United had an elite manager they should be challenging for the CL trophy Next season. People talk down on Maguire a lot but him and AWB have transformed you to top 3 defenses in the world in my view. It will only get better as season go. Pochettino would be a great manager for your team and I think United should go for someone like him.
If you get Sancho and a manager like Pochettino youre dark horses for the CL next season.

Pochettino sucks.

Change Ole and we're back to square one. Don't be daft, enough of rebuilds.

 

[Mount's Goatieson]

Looks like an Oscar signing.

I liked Oscar very very much. I'll take another Oscar

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I've had a few discussions on here. For me, there are three elements of quality for a football player: Technical ability, physique and decision making. With young players, the first two aspects are usually the best developed. They can improve by maturing and learning from their mistakes - that's what we call potential. But Mbappe's decision making is already brillant. His physique is obviously absolutely world class. Where he's "just" an 8/10 is his technique. Sometimes he has great plays and skill moves in him but occasionally, he stumbles over his feet, forgets the ball, has a bad touch, struggles to control the ball under pressure and so forth. Sure, that's critique at a very high level but he's compared to the likes of R9, Messi, Cristiano, Neymar, etc. and I'm not seeing that he can reach their level since all of them are at least comfortably better in terms of technique. Sancho on the other hand has brillant technique. His close control is unreal and his decision making is improving day by day. You could also see that when PSG and BVB met in the CL. Sancho completely outshone Mbappe and Neymar (although the latter just came back from a long injury break). Also, Mbappe for instance had an absolutely atrocious performance against United. He lost so many balls and came across clunky. That's why I think that he's already hit his ceiling and won't improve much further from here on. Sancho on the other hand has everything a truly, truly great player needs.




The right 8 in a 4-3-3 is his best position if you ask me. That's where his strengths unfold best. He can utilize his pressing resistance and passing ability and at the same time has opportunities to make his runs into the box and finish off attacks. He's could be great as a number 10 or false 9 since he's got the perfect skill set for those positions but so far, his best games occurred when he was played in midfield.

Your analysis makes sense I'd say. I suppose the only issue I'd have is the assumption that Sancho is a 10/10 in terms of physique - obviously he's rapid, but I am not 100% convinced he's ready to cope with the physicality of the PL off the bat. Technically though I agree that he's better than Mbappe at the same age.

Don't get the talk about increase in value. The goal surely is to have a top player for 10 years, not to have one for 3 and sell him on for a profit.

The idea here is that this'd be the worst case scenario for Chelsea should we sign Havertz - obviously I'd prefer that he finishes his career with us, but I just don't understand the argument that he'd represent a significant financial loss unless he's Torres-level atrocious.

 

[Mount's Goatieson]

I agree with it being cringeworthy, but that comes from being tired of reading arguments on here like broken records between Chelsea and United fans who have no clear idea what position Havertz even plays to begin with. Were all reading two people arguing over something theyre both wrong about to start with.
A cringe quick analysis who Havertz even is saves a lot of arguments on this thread.

Your post was insightful and I'm sure a lot of guys on here will read and apprreciate the effort. But that won't stop the wind up merchants and it won't stop the easily triggered either.

 

[WeePat]

It was likely always going to be released to mark Havertz's 10 years at the club, nevertheless, Chelsea twitter has interpreted this as a farewell production and confirmation by Leverkusen themselves that he's as good as gone.

 

[Open Goal]

It was likely always going to be released to mark Havertz's 10 years at the club, nevertheless, Chelsea twitter has interpreted this as a farewell production and confirmation by Leverkusen themselves that he's as good as gone.

I dont think it has anything to do with him leaving. Theyre clutching at straws in my opinion on twitter. Ill be watching it though. Good little pregame video before our final!

 

[SATA]

Why aren’t City getting him as a replacement for David Silva? They seem pretty similar and City can certainly afford him as well

 

[Mindhunter]

Yes, potential is there absolutely with the correct manager. Deadly attack with a strong midfield and a steel defense. Adding Sancho to the mix and absolutely they're CL contenders. Again, with the right manager emphasis.

We are CL contenders if we buy Sancho and hire a manager who has never won the CL before? Or a meaningful trophy for that matter?

 

[SinNombre]

Havertz is going to be the best AM in PL after KDB? Not really. Bruno is better for sure. Also Foden is more talented imo.

As of today, Kai will be 3rd best AM in the league behind KDB (best in the world) and Bruno (super stats for 3 seasons now).

BuLi fans like to overrate their players but Havertz is very good.

I disagree completely. The EPL used to have higher pace but that was primarily due to most English teams kept playing football that was tactically outdated.

This is a tired cliche. Leagues go in cycles in terms of strength, and strength begets strength.

We saw this with the PL teams between 2005 and 2009 where Chelsea with Abra's money pushed the bar up, and other English teams followed.

Then Barca did the same and RM and Atletico followed in La Liga and they had an extended period of domination, and now we are seeing the same with City's strength pushing everyone else to bulk up.

Gegenpressing was a tactical innovation but it never led to BuLi becoming competitive as a whole.

 

[SinNombre]

We are CL contenders if we buy Sancho and hire a manager who has never won the CL before? Or a meaningful trophy for that matter?

Poch almost won the CL with a weaker team 12 months back and he has never won any trophy.

CL is a cup competition and we are quite good at those (as we saw with our runs this year as well).

Winning the league is a much harder proposition for us next season.