This is not true whichever way you try to spin it. Sancho rejected his boyhood club Chelsea. Management then made the switch to havertz. Nothing to be ashamed of because it’s United after all.
Kai Havertz
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Been losing out to us for so long this one horse, 120m, 20yr old English talent has to be a win. No one but United will pay 120m for Sancho. Not Real, not Barca, Not Bayern, not PSG and certainly not Chelsea. Not after all the 100m+ flops lately(Dembele, Griezmann, Coutinho, Jao Felix). Contrary to what you choose to believe, Chelsea said no to a 120m player and bought Ziyech for 36m instead.
I for one am a very big fan of Sancho really and will be even more after his 100m+ big move back to the PL. Looking forward to all the tearing apart of teams and leading United to multiple League and CL trophies for the next decade. Can't wait
Ziyech on the right, Havertz in the middle is my best guess. Playing Ziyech centrally makes no sense because his best weapon is his crossing.
Us being after Havertz doesn't really make total sense considering we have Mount/Barkley/RLC in that area. You're right about that. Which is why I bet my RedCafe account a few weeks ago that we wouldn't sign him. But when you're presented with an opportunity to sign possibly the top attacking midfield talent in Europe you don't say no.
Its not 120m. He wont be much more than Havertz ffs.Been losing out to us for so long this one horse, 120m, 20yr old English talent has to be a win. No one but United will pay 120m for Sancho. Not Real, not Barca, Not Bayern, not PSG and certainly not Chelsea. Not after all the 100m+ flops lately(Dembele, Griezmann, Coutinho, Jao Felix). Contrary to what you choose to believe, Chelsea said no to a 120m player and bought Ziyech for 36m instead.
I for one am a very big fan of Sancho really and will be even more after his 100m+ big move back to the PL. Looking forward to all the tearing apart of teams and leading United to multiple League and CL trophies for the next decade. Can't wait
I guess Chelsea only became aware of how expensive Sancho would be, pre Corona!, at the very end of negotiations huh?
Nice of them to be so prudent. Its not as if reports are saying Sancho wants to come to United so both sides are likely to compromise on price.
Nope. 120m or nothing. We wont even bother to negotiate. We are Chelsea, hear us roar.
He is not a right winger! He can play anywhere along the attacking midfield. Maybe lampard would have used him in the center or in place of pulisic who he is better than?
Your last point applies to Sancho as well?
If Sancho wanted to go to Chelsea you would be negotiating right now. The same way you are with Havertz. Its hard for a club to hold out for a bigger fee when a player has only one destination in mind.
Thats why the stories of Sancho only wanting Utd for the past 2 seasons looks likely to be true.
Yes, I'm sure this is what United fans will convince themselves of. If both Chelsea and United made bids (like the Lukaku situation) and he chose United then what you say would be valid. But how can you be rejected when you didn't bid?
Us being after Sancho still having already signed Ziyech would be like us buying Werner and then also going after another striker. Completely implausible.
I think its just a blunt analysis from Lampard/management that Barkley definitely isn't of the required level, Mount is a good squad player but probably nothing more ever, and same with RLC. Havertz is on another level to all of them, and the same call was made for Werner vs Abraham imo. Pretty set for a standard 4231, with Havertz being a second striker behind Werner, Pulisic left and Ziyech right when all are fit, but with good depth in attack anyway. Probably Kovacic next to Kante as the main midfield duo?
I hope you are not serious there.
I'm not saying Sancho rejected Chelsea or anything even close to that but no one can be naive to believe that player cant/won't reject unless the bid is made.
Mount has been one of our players of the season so he will be much more than just a bench player.
But yes, I think that's how Frank will set up. When we signed Werner I didn't think there was any way he would be playing as the main striker. I figured for sure he would play on the left with Tammy up top. But Pulisic is too good to not start and Havertz changes everything.
Is there a big difference in the impact Havertz can make compared to someone like Grealish? Havertz looks like a player who can pop up with a lot of goals with his runs into the box, but I haven't seen enough of him in fairness. The reported £70-80m amounts seems very large.
The other way round, if anything. Werner's aerial play is pretty much non-existent. I can see Abraham holding his spot, as the others generally profit from having a target man.
Havertz is good in the air though. Basically making them a front 2, Werner being more a top class poacher. The others are all more talented players than Abraham, who is very good himself but I can't see starting ahead of Werner, Pulisic, Ziyech or Havertz.
Havertz is much more direct and aggressive getting into scoring positions than Grealish from what I've seen. Can also play in several positions so is more versatile. Havertz is also several years younger which adds to his price.
Why is bayern not after havertz? He is German and a top class talent.
Thomas Müller
Muchthe kid looks good but he's not a patch on Zidane ffs
Yeah, less talented. Zidane wasn't pulling trees at 19.
Spent their money on Sane
But how old is Muller? Havertz could be a long term replacement for him.
Been losing out to us for so long this one horse, 120m, 20yr old English talent has to be a win. No one but United will pay 120m for Sancho. Not Real, not Barca, Not Bayern, not PSG and certainly not Chelsea. Not after all the 100m+ flops lately(Dembele, Griezmann, Coutinho, Jao Felix). Contrary to what you choose to believe, Chelsea said no to a 120m player and bought Ziyech for 36m instead.
I for one am a very big fan of Sancho really and will be even more after his 100m+ big move back to the PL. Looking forward to all the tearing apart of teams and leading United to multiple League and CL trophies for the next decade. Can't wait
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...-Jadon-Sancho-transfer-news-Manchester-United
There's plenty of stuff explaining that Chelsea turned to Havertz when they realised that they could not get Sancho. In addition it's likely there will be little to no difference in price; Havertz rumoured to be in the 80-90 range and despite Dortmund's posturing most reliable journos suggest United will pay similar for Sancho.
As pointed out by @cyberman we were told Ziyech would play centrally and there were continued links for Sancho to Chelsea post that deal so suggesting that he was picked instead of Sancho is wrong.
I'm not sure what your issues are here. It's okay to not be a players first choice you know. It can happen. You all seem to rate Havertz very highly so be happy with the possibility of getting him and don't be embarrassed that you wanted Sancho initially and he's more a fall back option.
He's 30. And yes, he'd be a nice long term replacement. Unfortunately, we don't have 90-100m floating around to burn it on someone who'd spend most of his time on the bench for the first 2 or 3 years. Goretzka and Gnabry can play there, too if need be. It's just a position where we don't have any issue at all, generational talent or not.
Ziyech is a direct replacement for the departing Pedro and possibly Willian. He was never going to be a central #10. Even if we don't sign Havertz he won't play centrally. If you watch extensive highlights of Ziyech you'll see instance after instance of him whipping in crosses and doing damage from out wide. He may obviously cut inside here and there. Lampard would be an idiot (which he isn't) to play him centrally and remove his most threatening asset.
Is it entirely possible that we approached Sancho's camp BEFORE signing Ziyech and he said no thanks, I ONLY want United? I guess, though I'd find that hard to believe. But after we did sign Ziyech I think we completely moved on.
Targetting Havertz as a fallback option to Sancho would be like signing a LB as a fallback to a #10. It makes no sense. They're completely different players. Ziyech was the fallback option.
Too expensive this summer as they already got Sane.
I'm simply saying what's been widely reported. You wanted Sancho and turned to Havertz when you realised it was not possible. Not sure what's so difficult to believe about it to be honest.
Sancho and Havertz play entirely different positions. Havertz is a central attacking midfielder or support striker. He would replace Mason Mount in Chelsea's XI while United already have Bruno for that same position. Sancho is a right winger who can play in other positions across the front and Chelsea bought Ziyech to play that role while United don't have a proper right winger currently.
It's really not that complicated.
It's really not that complicated.
It's clear Chelsea wanted Sancho. It's clear they went off the idea or were told it wasn't possible.
Fill in the blanks as you wish.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
We don't know why we went off the idea. That's what this argument is about. You Man United fans seem to think it's because he turned us down, us Chelsea fans think it's because the asking price was simply too high.
We'll probably never know.
Havertz on the bench for 2 to 3 seasons? That's a stretch. And that thinking is exactly what caused Bayern to not go for De Bruyne and Sane (too expensive, might not start immediately). Bayern would be fools for not going after Havertz regardless of Muller's form, Havertz would be the perfect long term replacement.
If you want to play Goretzka in Muller's position, who plays in Goretzka's position (considering Thiago and Tolisso will leave)? While it may not be necessary to buy Havertz right now, he would be ready in 1 season, but if he goes to Chelsea then there's little chance he would come to Bayern (unless he doesn't settle in there).
We will know if you dump 90m or so on Havertz and we end up paying similar for Sancho.
If that happens then it'll be pretty clear the fee wasn't the issue.
Not at all. Müller's importance cannot be understated. It's not only his offensive contributions. It's also his workrate, his presence, and his pivotal role in our pressing, all things Havertz is still far away from replicating.
Sorry, but we're not an oil money powered enterprise. Economic factors sometimes dictate that kind of "foolishness".
Yep, that's where we need to put our money in. Maybe Camavinga if we get a bit of money for Thiago?
They probably could make it work, but, as others mentioned, Müller would make it hard for Havertz to get game time. Müller was (close to) world class this season and is only 30. He makes Bayern and especially Lewy work.
Ina year or two? Sure. This window? Unfortunately not so much.Havertz also seems to have his eyes set on Chelsea, which is a shame, but an understandable next step.
Imagine us paying 100m Euros for a player and then he sits on the bench... the pressure on Havertz would be enormous. You can already see it with Hernandez and how fast things can go wrong, there is no "patience" with players if you pay that much money and I'm sure Havertz also doesn't want to take that risk.
Sane who just joined us said in a recent interview that the reason he didn't join us when he left Schalke was simply due to Ribery and Robben and that he thought he wouldn't get much match time (despite them being at an advanced age).
So much reliance on the media. Theres no way reports on what positions a player will take can be taken at face value.
Its clear Chelsea gave up on Sancho when they bought Ziyech. This is most likely because sancho will go for over €100m euros. I've even seen reports today that dortmund rejected €98m already! Its not rocket science. €37m for Ziyech greatly improved us and left enough left to get Werner and someone else with the money it would have cost to get Sancho.
Probably didn't have our sights set on Havertz till it was clear we had a chance. But Havertz will still cost €30m or thereabouts left than Sancho. Which further underlines the point that we can improve the time even more by spreading the money over multiple players. Even if its just Havertz and Ziyech.
Its clear Chelsea gave up on Sancho when they bought Ziyech. This is most likely because sancho will go for over €100m euros. I've even seen reports today that dortmund rejected €98m already! Its not rocket science. €37m for Ziyech greatly improved us and left enough left to get Werner and someone else with the money it would have cost to get Sancho.
Probably didn't have our sights set on Havertz till it was clear we had a chance. But Havertz will still cost €30m or thereabouts left than Sancho. Which further underlines the point that we can improve the time even more by spreading the money over multiple players. Even if its just Havertz and Ziyech.
Reports currently circulating on Havertz price is €80m with a deal close to being reached. Reports also suggests you had an £89m bid rejected by Dortmund who are still holding out for €110m+. I very much doubt we'll get the respective players for the same price. You'll pay £100m+ to get Sancho or you won't get him this summer.
I hate the fact that these threads are essentially becoming whose dad is stronger type of childish bickering regarding Kai and Sancho.
Ive posted exactly what type of player Kai is multiple times and its been blindfully ignored and people continue playing guessing games on what type of player Kai is, just to continue for the sake of argument. Same goes to the Chelsea fans and United fans bickering over Sancho and Kai price costs. Is there no other thread to discuss player and club finances?
Is there a way a mod can pin my analysis on the player so members are more informed and can use it as a reference on who Havertz essentially is? I doubt that many have even watched any Leverkusen games, let alone be aware of the type of player Havertz is.
Ive posted exactly what type of player Kai is multiple times and its been blindfully ignored and people continue playing guessing games on what type of player Kai is, just to continue for the sake of argument. Same goes to the Chelsea fans and United fans bickering over Sancho and Kai price costs. Is there no other thread to discuss player and club finances?
Is there a way a mod can pin my analysis on the player so members are more informed and can use it as a reference on who Havertz essentially is? I doubt that many have even watched any Leverkusen games, let alone be aware of the type of player Havertz is.
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Sancho didn't reject Chelsea. I think Chelsea weren't going to be held ransom to 120m in this market and didn't want to get into a bidding war with United. I think they've been very smart with their moves with the acquisition of Ziyech and Werner without any competition. Even Havertz deal seems to be like an unopposed one.
00Beckham and RVN, I know they had their troubles with SAF but hardly players you want to lose.
Also we were one sloppy fax away from losing De Gea, and being honest if Madrid were not affected because covid we would have most likely lost Pogba.
Those fecking spanish clubs, specially Madrid can convince almost any player to join them.
Havertz is a luxury signing. He's absolutely not needed at United considering we've got Bruno / Pogba who can advance in his position and are the better players. I think fans are hung to this idea simply because of the profile of his name but when you consider his positional contribution it's an area where we are stacked. Chelsea also don't need him urgently but he's a better talent than Mount and for that reason there's more of an accessibility to his demand in making the starting 11.
I'm unsure what Lampard and the Chelsea hierarchy have identified in choosing to displace Mount who's been good this season in favour of another talented youth prospect in Kai, but I can see why they've made the move. Also this back and forth with Sancho is hilarious, the player could have favoured us but just as likely Lampard being exposed to Ziyech in the UCL could have altered his plans to capitalise on the opportunity to sign him.
I think Ziyech will hit the ground running in the league whereas I think Havertz will have to be nurtured more given the position he occupies. Chelsea will certainly be a better outlet in attack next season but a team is made whole by strengthening weaknesses. They are already very competent on the ball and resemble a team that has better coaching implementation than ours but that defence needs to be sorted as well as replacing Kepa.
I'm unsure what Lampard and the Chelsea hierarchy have identified in choosing to displace Mount who's been good this season in favour of another talented youth prospect in Kai, but I can see why they've made the move. Also this back and forth with Sancho is hilarious, the player could have favoured us but just as likely Lampard being exposed to Ziyech in the UCL could have altered his plans to capitalise on the opportunity to sign him.
I think Ziyech will hit the ground running in the league whereas I think Havertz will have to be nurtured more given the position he occupies. Chelsea will certainly be a better outlet in attack next season but a team is made whole by strengthening weaknesses. They are already very competent on the ball and resemble a team that has better coaching implementation than ours but that defence needs to be sorted as well as replacing Kepa.
Beckham and Ruud were players that had pretty much lost their first team spot and we were looking to sell. Becks we actually would have preferred to sell to Barca as they were offering a bit more, but he preferred Real.
Them taking Beckham, Ruud and Heinze was them taking our cast-offs, as harsh as that is to two legends. Chicharito as well, although obviously that was only a loan.
Ronaldo is the only player we've sold them that we wanted to keep. De Gea almost was as well, but it was noticeable that he never made a big deal of it (they were quite blatantly trying to get him to cause trouble so we'd be forced to sell him cheaper), and then once they screwed it up he quickly signed a new contract and had no interest the next season when they tried to come back. Pogba maybe, although that was more because we were shit.
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