Film Justice League

[Mockney]

Side note: I don't know why some of you watch these movies knowing full well that you aren't going to like em. What a waste of 4 hours...

I mean, for one, what else are we gonna do? We’ve all been locked down for a year watching telly, and this is a free (if you’ve got Sky) cultural curiosity that’s been bigged up as a grandiose cinematic spectacle, and two, this is an apparent vindication of Snyders vision? The whole point is apparently to get people who didn’t like the first one to watch it and appreciate how they were actually wrong, no?

Comic book fans are (in many ways tbf) like snowflake conservatives who despite being in complete control of all the machinations of power and media (in this case, the movie industry) also insisting that everyone needs to love them unquestioningly too, and whining about how anyone that doesn’t like it should leave the country! - except for when we can legitimately praise the handful of Marvel films, or Nolan and Mangold efforts that actually are good, then we’re allowed dispensation to praise it - but we should apparently shut up if we aren’t gonna give the crap stuff the same reverence!? In what other genre of film do fans of it tell people they shouldn’t have an opinion if they aren’t a mega fan? Who says “I don’t know why you even watch the Godfather trilogy, it’s too long and a waste of your time?”...No! feck you!!


Anyway, this is utter crap, and if anything I’ve come out of it with a much greater appreciation of Joss Whedon... at least he understands how the pacing of an actual movie should work. ‘Cos as @Dirty Schwein quite rightly pointed out from the get go, if you had to edit this down to the length and rhythms of an actual movie - a process that would necessitate losing context and adding in new connective beats - you’d end up with something that wasn’t remotely far removed from Whedon’s effort. Better shot and graded, undoubtedly, and there are a few things here and there you could point to as being better to have kept in, but essentially it’s the same movie, with the same plot!...a plot for one, 2hr movie!... I genuinely naively allowed myself to think that this could’ve been the result of Snyder having enough footage for 2 films, but it’s not at all! ...ITS THE SAME ONE FILM!

Even if you smashed the last 2 Avengers movies together for a similar run time, it’d still have the pacing and beats of two whole movies. With the appropriate peaks and troughs to guide the audience through it, whereas this is painfully evident as one movie, stretched interminably out beyond the capacity of normal human enjoyment. Is it “better?” ... Sure, as an understandable story, yeah. But as a film? It’s impossible to say, cos it isn’t a film. And if we’re gonna start judging films by whether they’re allowed to release 4hr versions to fully appreciate then this is an even bigger death knell for cinema than the fecking Coronavirus!

Anyway, dialogue is awful, straight out of a video game at numerous points, and it looks ugly as all sin... just a dirge of dark cloudy nonsense with weightless people bobbing about around it, occasionally interspersed with the worst actor they have (Gadot) giving terrible VO narration, lest this 4 hour film needed more time to fecking explain itself!... Even the one thing I did really like about BvS - the interesting and off kilter score - has been replaced by some unrelentingly generic “epic” orchestral nonsense, that often undercuts (or overcuts, if that’s even a thing) the scenes where it isn’t needed...

complete bollocks. Game’s gone.

P.S. if I get drunk enough, I have more to say... and you can’t stop me! That’s exactly how Nazi Germany started!

 

[Sylar]

The choir scene I forgot about that, damn that was so unnecessary

I really do want to see Snyder's edited version of his own movie to fit 2.5 hours (at most) and see what he would keep in and what he has to take out.

Having to remove around 90 minutes would be some task

 

[Norris]

I liked it. Obviously, the 4 hour run time needed around 2-3 sittings for me, but it was good, especially the second half. The overuse of Slomo annoyed me though and the drastic change in music also didn't help.

 

[Amarsdd]

the original Justice League was barely 5/10 and this one is a solid 8/10 for me. The movie is quintessential Zack Snyder; an alright story with lots of great moments sprinkled with some unintentional cringy and funny moments. Just watching it, I have to think what the hell was Josh Whedon thinking. It's not like he just cut this 4hrs to 2.5hrs, he feckin added so many idiotic stuff as well.

 

[FrankDrebin]

You could cut the early WW bomb+ hostage scene out for a start. Absolutely pointless.
Also, Flash's scene with his imprisoned father, cut that out. There was zero thread established there after.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Just watching this right now. 1 hr and 12 mins into it. Still shite so far and what the feck is up with the music.

It’s up there with the worst I’ve heard in a movie. Half of it is so out of place. The constant recurring rhythmic chanting shite is so ridiculous when used across a four hour film.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

You could cut the early WW bomb+ hostage scene out for a start. Absolutely pointless.

Made worse for the fact that she kills everyone, disarms the bomb, then when faced with a fella one on one, she proceeds to blow up the entire front of the building, showering police in building debris.

I know it’s a superhero movie but if she didn’t give a Fcuk about doing that, do it the moment you walk in.

 

[afrocentricity]

Mental analysis going on, it's a Zack Snyder comic book movie wtf are y'all expecting?

 

[Mockney]

The choir scene I forgot about that, damn that was so unnecessary

I really do want to see Snyder's edited version of his own movie to fit 2.5 hours (at most) and see what he would keep in and what he has to take out.

Having to remove around 90 minutes would be some task

The weirdest thing about this being 4 hours, is that it doesn’t even have the requisite beats to make a well structured 2hr version... to grudgingly use the Avengers comparison again, if you had to smash Infinity War and Endgame together, you’d still inevitably have that big “all is lost” moment where the heroes are soundly defeated in the 3rd act and need to rally themselves for one final last try (actually, you’d have about 3 of them, because the people who made those films knew how to structure) this thing just...doesn’t have that!

The closest we get is the Superman fight, which goes on for longer, but ultimately ends at the same place, where they lose the box but gain Superman, which was their plan all along! .... essentially nothing goes wrong for them, it just all happens very slowly... All the “how are going to achieve this insurmountable goal?” stuff is done in dialogue, with everyone standing around large dark rooms looking sad. Only now there’s more of that!

In hindsight the only thing wrong with Whedons version is that it looks shit, and the reshoots were very obviously done with a fat Affleck and a hairy Cavill...there was almost nothing he could’ve done to give the last act the proper gravitas it needed, because there just wasn’t enough stuff there.

 

[evil_geko]

where the heroes are soundly defeated in the 3rd act and need to rally themselves for one final last try (actually, you’d have about 3 of them, because the people who made those films knew how to structure) this thing just...doesn’t have that!

And this is why I like this more than most of Marvel, I am tired of the same formula, I knew exactly how every Avengers movie is constructed before even watching them, I was just there for pretty visuals.

Some people like to see same formula, same pacing etc, I do not, give me "boring" DC movie any day.

 

[Mockney]

Mental analysis going on, it's a Zack Snyder comic book movie wtf are y'all expecting?

Come on mate, you could use that rationale for Guardians of the Galaxy, or Captain America (or the Lego movie FFS!) properties so ludicrous they shouldn’t have ever been able to make great movies out of, but did.... whereas this is a film whose central character has had Best Picture nominated films made from, and whose villain (who featured here, hilariously, and almost completely without justification) is tied with Vito Corleone as a character with multiple Oscar winning portrayals of... the “what did you expect?” stuff is moot here... bad movies are allowed to be called as bad movies... especially ones that need a 4hr cut to be good... but are somehow still incredibly bad!!

I live on planet comic book too... and I’m allowed to protest dammit!

 

[Mockney]

And this is why I like this more than most of Marvel, I am tired of the same formula, I knew exactly how every Avengers movie is constructed, I was just there for pretty visuals.

Some people like to see same formula, same pacing etc, I do not, give me "boring" DC movie any day.

It’s not a formula, it’s a structure. All movies abide by it in some way, not just Marvel films. Shakespeare stuck almost rigidly to a 5 act structure. It’s what you do with it that matters. Rebelling against it is merely akin to saying “I’m bored of songs that have chord changes, I want one long continuous note, you normies!”

And this is ALL visuals!... they just aren’t very pretty

But each to their own mate, you do you.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

Just finished it. It was a drag to get through but the last hour was entertaining and the after credits scenes were a very fun watch. Would love if they could continue that timeline but it doesn’t look likely with possibly Affleck and Cavil leaving. 4 hours was a bit too much and the choir music every time WW showed up annoyed the living hell out of me, it was fecking dumb, even the the Flash Scene with the car was creepy. It was all eh.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Made worse for the fact that she kills everyone, disarms the bomb, then when faced with a fella one on one, she proceeds to blow up the entire front of the building, showering police in building debris.

I know it’s a superhero movie but if she didn’t give a Fcuk about doing that, do it the moment you walk in.

I kind of laughed a little when the girl says she wants to be like her when she grows up, and Diana said she could be anything she wanted to be. I kept waiting for her to finish it off with "...except me. I'm pretty much a God. You fecking pleb."

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

his version is more coherent. he still butchers the lore. Glad he wont be touching another dc movie

 

[Terminator]

Ultimately its all down to your taste when it especially comes to superhero movies IMO. Your 'great' superhero movie might be cringey crowd pleasing comedy and predictable to someone else.

At the end of the day, its grown ups running around in Spandex and capes.

 

[Sylar]

That ww scene with Roose bolton was better than ww84

The weirdest thing about this being 4 hours, is that it doesn’t even have the requisite beats to make a well structured 2hr version... to grudgingly use the Avengers comparison again, if you had to smash Infinity War and Endgame together, you’d still inevitably have that big “all is lost” moment where the heroes are soundly defeated in the 3rd act and need to rally themselves for one final last try (actually, you’d have about 3 of them, because the people who made those films knew how to structure) this thing just...doesn’t have that!

The closest we get is the Superman fight, which goes on for longer, but ultimately ends at the same place, where they lose the box but gain Superman, which was their plan all along! .... essentially nothing goes wrong for them, it just all happens very slowly... All the “how are going to achieve this insurmountable goal?” stuff is done in dialogue, with everyone standing around large dark rooms looking sad. Only now there’s more of that!

In hindsight the only thing wrong with Whedons version is that it looks shit, and the reshoots were very obviously done with a fat Affleck and a hairy Cavill...there was almost nothing he could’ve done to give the last act the proper gravitas it needed, because there just wasn’t enough stuff there.

I think Whedon cut down all the bits that he felt weren't necessary (opinion after all)
Then filmed corny funny scenes because the company asked him too.
Then he looked at it and saw some scenes need a link and filmed a few new scenes and they werent great.

Whedons movie was a mess but he got it to cinematic time at least.

 

[Mockney]

That ww scene with Roose bolton was better than ww84


I think Whedon cut down all the bits that he felt weren't necessary (opinion after all)
Then filmed corny funny scenes because the company asked him too.
Then he looked at it and saw some scenes need a link and filmed a few new scenes and they werent great.

Whedons movie was a mess but he got it to cinematic time at least.

Yeah... plus it looked terrible. Whedon is an immeasurably better writer, but a significantly inferior aesthetic filmmaker to Snyder. He shoots with a TV sensibility. Which is why until the likes of Waititi came along, the MCU could be quite reasonably accused of looking very flat and uncinematic.. (and for any DC fans who want equivalence, I also think the big fight at the end of Endgame looks like shit too)

Snyder shoots things dramatically, but without the emotional heft of good writing behind it, it amounts to little... which is why I still consider that famous circular hero shot in Avengers a much better bit of filmmaking than anything comparable in this, because despite it all looking a bit CW in its framing and colour grading, it’s driven by a writers eye for character... with each of them performing an action relevant to their persona as the camera swoops around them - and it coming at the precise point in the film where that kind of thing lands with a bang *

Whereas for all Snyder’s dark smokey bombast, his many, many attempts at an equivalent shot here are simply just some uncomfortable looking people standing in a line, in slow motion... often at largely unemotional points in the narrative.

Whedon’s additions were mostly for the worse, yeah, but now we’ve seen everything he had to work with (and I’m pretty sure we have seen EVERYTHING!) and knowing he was tasked with making it less dour and more Marvel-y, it’s hard to imagine anyone who could’ve done a significantly better job in the circumstances.. of the story, at least. Snyders version would’ve been more cinematic and more tonally consistent, but there’s no way it would’ve been the entirely different film we’ve been promised... because, well.. this isn’t! And it’s 4hours long!!

* to hammer this home, there’s even a point in this where Synder rotates the camera around all the heroes... but it’s in a scene where they’re all just standing in an aircraft hanger talking in that achingly unnatural way you get in films where each one completes the sentence of the one before... and it looks good, sure, but, so what?... it conveys nothing about the characters, and simply serves to make the 432nd exposition scene pass a little smoother.

 

[Zarlak]

Also about the Epilogue scene

Spoiler

I really liked the Batman and Joker conversation, I can see how it would seem cringe for regular movie watcher that has no context, but that was actually really nice to see for a comic book fan, and there is a hint there that that Joker is actually Jason Todd, which makes more sense with the team up. Loved that part.

I also liked that conversation, but as said by others:

Spoiler

He's referring to the comic book story line where he brutally murders Jason Todd with a crow bar. It's also a call back to Batman vs Superman

 

[Sweet Square]

Here's some very annoying review thumbnails

 

[Amarsdd]

Mental analysis going on, it's a Zack Snyder comic book movie wtf are y'all expecting?

exactly what I thinking reading the posts here.

 

[Mockney]

exactly what I thinking reading the posts here.

Superhero movies are the biggest, most expensive and most popular movies around. To the point where the entire cinema industry is essentially enslaved to them... they’re supposed to be watched by a large, uninitiated public, and they’ll keep making more and more and more of them if people keep insisting they’re all amazing without any critical thought.

Nobody gets annoyed if someone doesn’t like the Three Colours Trilogy, or fails to fully understand Goddard. Despite those being actual niche properties intended for a small, suitably inoculated audience. And yet despite being endlessly and furiously inundated with marketing insisting we watch this shit, we’re apparently not allowed to watch it and not like it... or at least not like ALL OF IT! Because comic book fans, like Star Wars fans, are the most infantilised and thin skinned weirdos, completely oblivious of the fact that we need to watch all of this shite in order to effectively destroy you one day. Which we will... and when we do, you’ll look up and shout “save us” and we’ll whisper “WHAT, I CANT HEAR YOU!?” before kicking you in the balls.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

So there's obviously still a lot of things that aren't great about this version, but, how in the absolute feck did Whedon look at the absolutely breathtaking scene with the Flash reversing time and think to himself "yeah, I'll cut that bit"?

The tension building up to that moment as well was really good. Always felt weird how in the Whedon one it's just "oh this is going to be really difficult to pull apa- oh, wait no that was quite easy".

 

[VP89]

Saw the new one. It feels like watching a South Indian movie at times. So many stupid slow motions and cut scenes to show off montages. There's feck all substance in the film, no chemistry no character development, the action is so so, cyborg looks like a cartoon and it's just wank.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

This version is better for one simple reason; it hasn't got that shitty Flash joke about brunch in it.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Yeah... plus it looked terrible. Whedon is an immeasurably better writer, but a significantly inferior aesthetic filmmaker to Snyder. He shoots with a TV sensibility. Which is why until the likes of Waititi came along, the MCU could be quite reasonably accused of looking very flat and uncinematic.. (and for any DC fans who want equivalence, I also think the big fight at the end of Endgame looks like shit too)

Snyder shoots things dramatically, but without the emotional heft of good writing behind it, it amounts to little... which is why I still consider that famous circular hero shot in Avengers a much better bit of filmmaking than anything comparable in this, because despite it all looking a bit CW in its framing and colour grading, it’s driven by a writers eye for character... with each of them performing an action relevant to their persona as the camera swoops around them - and it coming at the precise point in the film where that kind of thing lands with a bang *

Whereas for all Snyder’s dark smokey bombast, his many, many attempts at an equivalent shot here are simply just some uncomfortable looking people standing in a line, in slow motion... often at largely unemotional points in the narrative.

Whedon’s additions were mostly for the worse, yeah, but now we’ve seen everything he had to work with (and I’m pretty sure we have seen EVERYTHING!) and knowing he was tasked with making it less dour and more Marvel-y, it’s hard to imagine anyone who could’ve done a significantly better job in the circumstances.. of the story, at least. Snyders version would’ve been more cinematic and more tonally consistent, but there’s no way it would’ve been the entirely different film we’ve been promised... because, well.. this isn’t! And it’s 4hours long!!

* to hammer this home, there’s even a point in this where Synder rotates the camera around all the heroes... but it’s in a scene where they’re all just standing in an aircraft hanger talking in that achingly unnatural way you get in films where each one completes the sentence of the one before... and it looks good, sure, but, so what?... it conveys nothing about the characters, and simply serves to make the 432nd exposition scene pass a little smoother.

This is it in a nutshell regarding Snyder.

I'm still of the opinion that Snyder still doesn't get Superman. Batman, sure, but I find him the most easily accessible character to visualize and write for.

 

[Sweet Square]

Justice League The Snyder Cut Review Part 1

Running time - 2:45:00

 

[Balljy]

So there's obviously still a lot of things that aren't great about this version, but, how in the absolute feck did Whedon look at the absolutely breathtaking scene with the Flash reversing time and think to himself "yeah, I'll cut that bit"?

The tension building up to that moment as well was really good. Always felt weird how in the Whedon one it's just "oh this is going to be really difficult to pull apa- oh, wait no that was quite easy".

Snyder reshot scenes rather than just going to old footage so could it could potentially be a new scene rather than Whedon ignoring it? I'm not sure if we know which scenes are new Snyder footage.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Snyder reshot scenes rather than just going to old footage so could it could potentially be a new scene rather than Whedon ignoring it? I'm not sure if we know which scenes are new Snyder footage.

Ah, I thought it was just the epilogue that was new? Maybe you're right.

 

[evil_geko]

Snyder reshot scenes rather than just going to old footage so could it could potentially be a new scene rather than Whedon ignoring it? I'm not sure if we know which scenes are new Snyder footage.

Only Epilogue was reshot.

https://screencrush.com/zack-snyders-justice-league-what-was-reshot/

The specifics of exactly what Snyder was reshooting was never made clear, until Justice League producer Deborah Snyder told Insider in a new interview. The added material is specifically — and only — the epilogue; the “Knightmare” future that will supposedly come to pass in future sequels that, at this point, look like they were never made.

 

[Balljy]

Ah, I thought it was just the epilogue that was new? Maybe you're right.

Supposedly it was four to five minutes of extra footage but the budget for the additional photography and post production was $70 million so no idea how much extra footage there actually is.

 

[Balljy]

Only Epilogue was reshot.

https://screencrush.com/zack-snyders-justice-league-what-was-reshot/

Ahhh, OK cheers. I had only read from rumours a while back. No idea what they spent that budget on then because apparently $70 million was the final total spent on the Snyder Cut

 

[Andy_Cole]

Ahhh, OK cheers. I had only read from rumours a while back. No idea what they spent that budget on then because apparently $70 million was the final total spent on the Snyder Cut

I assume a lot of that was editing and CGI.

 

[Andy_Cole]

This is it in a nutshell regarding Snyder.

I'm still of the opinion that Snyder still doesn't get Superman. Batman, sure, but I find him the most easily accessible character to visualize and write for.

Get a room you two

 

[Balljy]

I assume a lot of that was editing and CGI.

As it took around 2 years $70,000,000 isn't bad wages for around 500 people at $60,000 per year leaving an odd 10 million extra for computers etc. I'm in the wrong industry.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

15 min in and I’m reminded what a dick Snyder’s Batman was, he could throw 25k to talk to Arthur Curry but couldn’t save the farm of Clark’s mom from foreclosure until he’s resurrected ?

 

[SalfordRed18]

15 min in and I’m reminded what a dick Snyder’s Batman was, he could throw 25k to talk to Arthur Curry but couldn’t save the farm of Clark’s mom from foreclosure until he’s resurrected ?

He would if he knew the moms name tbf. Changes everything that.

 

[Amarsdd]

Superhero movies are the biggest, most expensive and most popular movies around. To the point where the entire cinema industry is essentially enslaved to them... they’re supposed to be watched by a large, uninitiated public, and they’ll keep making more and more and more of them if people keep insisting they’re all amazing without any critical thought.

Nobody gets annoyed if someone doesn’t like the Three Colours Trilogy, or fails to fully understand Goddard. Despite those being actual niche properties intended for a small, suitably inoculated audience. And yet despite being endlessly and furiously inundated with marketing insisting we watch this shit, we’re apparently not allowed to watch it and not like it... or at least not like ALL OF IT! Because comic book fans, like Star Wars fans, are the most infantilised and thin skinned weirdos, completely oblivious of the fact that we need to watch all of this shite in order to effectively destroy you one day. Which we will... and when we do, you’ll look up and shout “save us” and we’ll whisper “WHAT, I CANT HEAR YOU!?” before kicking you in the balls.

I don't think anyone said you're not allowed to watch it and not like it and even criticize it. I just feel it's better to go into these movies expecting from it for what it is, a mindless joyride with a decent bit of storytelling, character building, and sometimes humor sprinkled on top of it. And not go into it expecting Oscar-worthy storytelling and performances, and having those expectations shattered. It's just that there is a place for these movies and a place for the Three Colours Trilogy, Goddard films, and the likes. No point mixing expectations between these. Just keep them compartmentalized when watching them. Well, that's just what I think. But hey, I'm no movie connoisseur, I just watch movies for enjoyment in whatever form it provides it.

 

[decorativeed]

I don't think anyone said you're not allowed to watch it and not like it and even criticize it. I just feel it's better to go into these movies expecting from it for what it is, a mindless joyride with a decent bit of storytelling, character building, and sometimes humor sprinkled on top of it. And not go into it expecting Oscar-worthy storytelling and performances, and having those expectations shattered. It's just that there is a place for these movies and a place for the Three Colours Trilogy, Goddard films, and the likes. No point mixing expectations between these. Just keep them compartmentalized when watching them. Well, that's just what I think. But hey, I'm no movie connoisseur, I just watch movies for enjoyment in whatever form it provides it.

Not to trad on his toes, but I believe Mockney's main point was that this film doesn't provide any entertainment.

 

[Ekeke]

For those worried about the aspect ratio, I watched it in 16:10 and it was fine enough. Some black bars at the side but it didnt distract me. I'm pretty sure you can cut those off with vlc media player anyway if you cant cope.