Film Justice League

[Andy_Cole]

I dont think the line and dialogue helped tbh. I think we know what Gal' strengths are, so should be playing more towards that.
i actually liked the scene for the most part, and it felt much better than anything involved in WW84.

I thought Wonder Woman was great in ZSJL. Her fight scenes were good to watch. I really didn’t like WW84 or her in it but after ZSJL I’m full backing Gal again.

I may be a little sexist but a big reason was she looked hot in ZSJL and think she was toned down in WW84. Only gutted I couldn’t watch ZSJL in iMax.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

I dont think the line and dialogue helped tbh. I think we know what Gal' strengths are, so should be playing more towards that.
i actually liked the scene for the most part, and it felt much better than anything involved in WW84.

I'll probably get flamed like in the wandavision thread for writing this off after watching 1/8th of it, but even within that 25mins the dialogue was appalling.

"I don't believe it"
"Believe it"
*Destroys whole floor of building unnecessarily.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

So I've finally finished watching this. I've also read most of this thread so will try not to repeat points already discussed.

My thoughts:

This should have been a 6 part series, each part being around 40 minutes. It lacks the structure of a movie. Even at 4 hours, it hit no beats. No "all is lost moment" no "midpoint" shift etc. This could never have worked as a movie.

Slooooow motion shots, ugly VFX, six pack abs, female butt shots, random wank reference, no colour etc... This felt like Zack Snyder's greatest hits album. He needs to be dropped. He just comes across as a dude-bro with no understanding of plot, structure, source material or in particular, Superman. DC can't do Marvel, they haven't got the nuance/put in the time to create this universe. They just need to stick to making separate hero films. Keep them in their own universe. At least for now. You can always merge with Flashpoint later down the line.

Cyborg and Flash needed their own movies before this. Then you wouldn't need any of their back stories, thus cutting probably over an hour of this movie.

I really missed the Aquaman sitting on the lassoo bit. That was my favourite moment from the original.

Talking of Aquabro, what was the point of him in this movie besides saying things like "ma maaan" and "alriiiight" before being disposed of instantly in a fight

Snyder has no restraint whatsoever. This could have been EASILY 3 hours, which is far more normal than 4 hours by limiting the slow mo and getting rid of random scenes that added nothing, like the WW bank scene or Lois Lane getting Starbucks constantly like a hippy coffee fiend.

I did love seeing Deathstroke but all that stuff and the epilogue seemed super rushed. Didn't feel organic at all. I was completely confused (I'm not a huge comic nerd). Why was Deathstroke standing beside Bats at the end when a scene earlier he was bought in to kill him? Didn't that spoil that narrative thread? Did Aquabro die? Another spoiler? Can someone explain that end bit there? I really didn't get it.

Also Martian Manhunter randomly appearing made no sense. Him, and a lot of things, just looked like CW level of graphics work.

I liked Cyborg a lot more here and I always liked Batflek. Aquabro was decent because I find him funny. Flash had decent moments but was annoying. Wonder Woman was atrocious. Clearly cast on looks and not ability. That is a major sin as she is such a vital character here. Imagine Ironman or Captain America being cast as Vin Diesel. That's what this was.

Finally, I think it's unfair to compare this to the JW cut. Put it this way, JW had to take the exam in a public hall, with examiners over him (studio) and a strict time limit (theatrical run). Snyder did the same exam on his own at home and had the luxury to take as long as he wants.

All in all though, it had its moments and I did enjoy the dumb action, which is ultimately the goal I suppose. I'm a massive fan of the Fast and Furious franchise so I'm in no place to slate anything

I had many other thoughts but I'll leave it there for now.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Disagree. Aqua-man played a vital role in deciding what navy cap Flash should wear.

Edit. I also liked the part where Cyborg-man purposefully put out a beacon for the JL to contact him. Only to turn his back on WW the moment they met up, while disabling the City's power-grid in the process.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Disagree. Aqua-man played a vital role in deciding what navy cap Flash should wear.

Of course! How did I forget

I did like it though that he felt guilty towards how the JLs idiocy got Cyborgs dad killed and again felt it when after 2 minutes of Cyborgs dad dying, they were ready to send him into a suicide mission he was the only one that showed any humanity to be fair.

 

[Sylar]

I thought Wonder Woman was great in ZSJL. Her fight scenes were good to watch. I really didn’t like WW84 or her in it but after ZSJL I’m full backing Gal again.

I may be a little sexist but a big reason was she looked hot in ZSJL and think she was toned down in WW84. Only gutted I couldn’t watch ZSJL in iMax.

Yeah I enjoyed her in this movie, maybe because ww84 overall sucked (I don't think the movie was as bad as some of the reviews say but even then I'd have it below suicide Squad in terms of dccu movies).

I'll probably get flamed like in the wandavision thread for writing this off after watching 1/8th of it, but even within that 25mins the dialogue was appalling.

"I don't believe it"
"Believe it"
*Destroys whole floor of building unnecessarily.

Dialogue isn't a strong point for Snyder movies. Joker mentioning a reach around was... Yeah
That happened

I did love seeing Deathstroke but all that stuff and the epilogue seemed super rushed. Didn't feel organic at all. I was completely confused (I'm not a huge comic nerd). Why was Deathstroke standing beside Bats at the end when a scene earlier he was bought in to kill him? Didn't that spoil that narrative thread? Did Aquabro die? Another spoiler? Can someone explain that end bit there? I really didn't get it.

So that ending whilst was a Bruce Wayne dream (he woke up from it) was similar to what happened in bvs where it's more a premonition in that it's a future point that happens

Basically we are in the future there after darkseid wins
From that we can see aqua man is dead and mera wants revenge (takes over as the queen of the fish) ,
Wasn't sure if that was flash or cyborg but whoever it was has a new costume, Lois Lane is dead (batman could have sacrificed himself to save her?) and thus supermans humanity is gone (he's now a super man parademon for DS). Lois is key to keeping Superman as a good guy and with her gone that's that...

Deathstroke is basically a hired gun / mercenary
I assume Luthor Jr is dead and DeathS is now the antihero by now and basically wants to live so joins up with Batman
Joker probably freed from AA just because Batman knows him and he might become useful in taking down Superman

I think Snyder put that there in the hopes that there's clamour to do more but it looks like there isn't so he put that as a bonus to show fans what it would have got to.

 

[Sylar]

BTW as a fan of the flash CW show (but disappointed where it's gone) I found it funny when flash said 'the power of love' , damn that iris and friends show

And I'm guessing Lois Lane is pregnant

 

[FrankDrebin]

Yeah I enjoyed her in this movie, maybe because ww84 overall sucked (I don't think the movie was as bad as some of the reviews say but even then I'd have it below suicide Squad in terms of dccu movies).


Dialogue isn't a strong point for Snyder movies. Joker mentioning a reach around was... Yeah
That happened



So that ending whilst was a Bruce Wayne dream (he woke up from it) was similar to what happened in bvs where it's more a premonition in that it's a future point that happens

Basically we are in the future there after darkseid wins
From that we can see aqua man is dead and mera wants revenge (takes over as the queen of the fish) ,
Wasn't sure if that was flash or cyborg but whoever it was has a new costume, Lois Lane is dead (batman could have sacrificed himself to save her?) and thus supermans humanity is gone (he's now a super man parademon for DS). Lois is key to keeping Superman as a good guy and with her gone that's that...

Deathstroke is basically a hired gun / mercenary
I assume Luthor Jr is dead and DeathS is now the antihero by now and basically wants to live so joins up with Batman
Joker probably freed from AA just because Batman knows him and he might become useful in taking down Superman

I think Snyder put that there in the hopes that there's clamour to do more but it looks like there isn't so he put that as a bonus to show fans what it would have got to.

Which is incredibly dumb for a film supposedly marketed for the more mature audience.

 

[Sylar]

Which is incredibly dumb for a film supposedly marketed for the more mature audience.

I don't follow you?

 

[FrankDrebin]

I don't follow you?

That Superman would turn evil if Lane were to unfortunately die.
Far too black and white. I want more depth in a character, which I thought Snyder was alluding to with his "this is for the more mature audience" talk before release.

 

[afrocentricity]

That Superman would turn evil if Lane were to unfortunately die.
Far too black and white. I want more depth in a character, which I thought Snyder was alluding to with his "this is for the more mature audience" talk before release.

 

[nimic]

I was going to give this a go, but this thread has thoroughly convinced me not to. I also didn't realize it was 4:3, which honestly might have stopped me regardless.

 

[FrankDrebin]

So if Lane dies, Supes turns bad ?

 

[Sylar]

That Superman would turn evil if Lane were to unfortunately die.
Far too black and white. I want more depth in a character, which I thought Snyder was alluding to with his "this is for the more mature audience" talk before release.

Oh haha. Snyder and character depth in a sentence is interesting for sure.

Im sure there is probably more to it then a switch turning and he turns heel and thats where DarkSeid comes in with his powers (and of course future movies planned).

 

[FrankDrebin]

Oh haha. Snyder and character depth in a sentence is interesting for sure.

Im sure there is probably more to it then a switch turning and he turns heel and thats where DarkSeid comes in with his powers (and of course future movies planned).

I did give him the benefit of the doubt it seems.

 

[reelworld]

That Superman would turn evil if Lane were to unfortunately die.
Far too black and white. I want more depth in a character, which I thought Snyder was alluding to with his "this is for the more mature audience" talk before release.

I presumed that it would take the story line of Injustice comic, where Superman become a fascist and rule the Earth after Joker killed Lois.

Anyway, I already can't watch 2 hours of Zack Snyder movie, I'm gonna pass on wasting 4 hours of my time on this one.
@Mockney hit it out of the park with his review.
Such a shame how Snyder ruined DC movies as I grew up with DC comics and to this day still particularly prefer DC comics than Marvel ones. But the movies has been pretty awful.

 

[decorativeed]

I don't think anyone said you're not allowed to watch it and not like it and even criticize it. I just feel it's better to go into these movies expecting from it for what it is, a mindless joyride with a decent bit of storytelling, character building, and sometimes humor sprinkled on top of it. And not go into it expecting Oscar-worthy storytelling and performances, and having those expectations shattered. It's just that there is a place for these movies and a place for the Three Colours Trilogy, Goddard films, and the likes. No point mixing expectations between these. Just keep them compartmentalized when watching them. Well, that's just what I think. But hey, I'm no movie connoisseur, I just watch movies for enjoyment in whatever form it provides it.

I don't agree with this at all. Yes, I watch superhero movies for a big dose of escapism. I watch them because I grew up loving them when the only decent ones were Superman the Movie and Tim Burton's Batman. Most of the rest were low-budget, made for TV shite, and I still watched them and tried my best to enjoy them, even when they had awful special effects, rubber ears and wrestlers hamming their way through dreadful scripts.

When a film has had around $400m spent on it and years of development time, I expect it to have a decent script, a well-chosen and suitable cast and top-class effects. In short, I expect it to be good, as there's no reason for it not to be.

 

[evil_geko]

I don't agree with this at all. Yes, I watch superhero movies for a big dose of escapism. I watch them because I grew up loving them when the only decent ones were Superman the Movie and Tim Burton's Batman. Most of the rest were low-budget, made for TV shite, and I still watched them and tried my best to enjoy them, even when they had awful special effects, rubber ears and wrestlers hamming their way through dreadful scripts.

When a film has had around $400m spent on it and years of development time, I expect it to have a decent script, a well-chosen and suitable cast and top-class effects. In short, I expect it to be good, as there's no reason for it not to be.

Which it is, for majority of people, which reviews show (not counting wannabe critics). If some people don't like it and think it's trash, good for them, but they shouldn't claim their opinion is universally objectively correct. That is what I find annoying. You hate it, cool, not a movie for you.

I gave it two watches in 3 days, love the film.

 

[Andy_Cole]

That Superman would turn evil if Lane were to unfortunately die.
Far too black and white. I want more depth in a character, which I thought Snyder was alluding to with his "this is for the more mature audience" talk before release.

There’s some guessing here. I believe there’s something in the anti life equation. I think with Lois’s love Superman is strong enough to resist Darkseid’s power/ control but once that is gone and Superman breaks Darkseid is able to take control.

Something along those lines. I would be surprised if Supes became bad out of choice.

 

[Mockney]

Bit much calling those "great movies".

I mean, fair... but then I’m constantly being told I need to judge these things entirely by their own metric, so I can’t really win.

Though tbf ive never been a huge fan of Captain America:The one about accountability, where the film baffling keeps trying to tell you that the right side of the argument is the one that says the literal avatar of the United States Military Industrial Complex should be allowed to protect his allies for their previous war crimes ‘cos they all feel a bit bad about it now... but then that does kinda seem to be all of them.

Though in all fairness that doesn’t include a thunderously scored scene where Willem Defoe stands in the sea in a leather wetsuit looking freezing as he watches a car drive away in slow motion. And if anything, that’s a mark against.

 

[Sylar]

There’s some guessing here. I believe there’s something in the anti life equation. I think with Lois’s love Superman is strong enough to resist Darkseid’s power/ control but once that is gone and Superman breaks Darkseid is able to take control.

Something along those lines. I would be surprised if Supes became bad out of choice.

Yeah I see this as what they were going for based on what we've seen so far

 

[noodlehair]

Can't figure out if this is longer than the original or if its just that about 80% of it is in slow motion for no reason.

Also felt less like a "cut" of the movie and more like a shameless attempt to change the bits people moaned about and pretend that was how it was meant to be all along.

Also some of the really bad dialogue has been taken out but then replaced with equally bad but just lsightly more miserable dialogue, which is a weird move. There's some bits where it just cuts away from the person as they speak because it was obviously never the original dialogue and they presumably weren't able to re-shoot it.

Also, the slow motion and dramatic music, I get its his thing, but, shouldn't it at least make sense? At one point there was dramatic climax music to Bruce Wayne climbing up a slight hill. The opening scene also seemed to be put together specifically to piss Mockney off.

I think its better than the original but I'm not really sure how much credit to give that as I'm sure most terrible films would get better if you gave someone loads of money to re cut them and just change round all of the worst bits.

 

[VP89]

He's just a terrible, terrible director and has ruined the franchise. It's hilarious how WB keep backing him, the absolute idiots.

 

[decorativeed]

Which it is, for majority of people, which reviews show (not counting wannabe critics). If some people don't like it and think it's trash, good for them, but they shouldn't claim their opinion is universally objectively correct. That is what I find annoying. You hate it, cool, not a movie for you.

I gave it two watches in 3 days, love the film.

Just like the post I was replying to, I'm not talking specifically about this one film, and nowhere have I said I hate it. I've actually only seen a tiny bit of it so far, so can't yet say what I think about it.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Can't figure out if this is longer than the original or if its just that about 80% of it is in slow motion for no reason.

Also felt less like a "cut" of the movie and more like a shameless attempt to change the bits people moaned about and pretend that was how it was meant to be all along.

Also some of the really bad dialogue has been taken out but then replaced with equally bad but just lsightly more miserable dialogue, which is a weird move. There's some bits where it just cuts away from the person as they speak because it was obviously never the original dialogue and they presumably weren't able to re-shoot it.

Also, the slow motion and dramatic music, I get its his thing, but, shouldn't it at least make sense? At one point there was dramatic climax music to Bruce Wayne climbing up a slight hill. The opening scene also seemed to be put together specifically to piss Mockney off.

I think its better than the original but I'm not really sure how much credit to give that as I'm sure most terrible films would get better if you gave someone loads of money to re cut them and just change round all of the worst bits.

The music is by Tom Holkenberg (Junkie XL), who has a great YouTube channel that's very interesting, but the bombast and lack of any sense of weight is kinda what I expected this would be like.

 

[FrankDrebin]

So where do we go from here, more importantly DC ?
Is this universe ditched now ?
Personally I like the idea of DC continuing their solo projects and, though I had little time for the Joker, I think this is the route to take, especially with another Batman film on the horizon.
Think it would be a refreshing change from Marvel's cinematic universe. It would give alot of directors and writers creative breathing space too instead of feeling constantly restricted to past or future films narratives.

 

[Pscholes18]

Movie wasn't perfect. Yes some of the dialogue was meh but overall I thought it was good. I enjoyed the seriousness of the film and the profanity we don't usually hear supes spew. Fleck looked fat in his suit and the BM suit over looked shite.

Yeah I don't think it would be wise for Superman to just go balls out evil because Lois dies. Darkseid would certainly have his say in it.

Would be really fecking cool if they brought GL into the pic. Reynolds or whoever. The character is just too badass not to be a part of possible future films. I didn't think the GL was all that bad.... should I watch it again?

 

[Ish]

I presumed that it would take the story line of Injustice comic, where Superman become a fascist and rule the Earth after Joker killed Lois.

Anyway, I already can't watch 2 hours of Zack Snyder movie, I'm gonna pass on wasting 4 hours of my time on this one.
@Mockney hit it out of the park with his review.
Such a shame how Snyder ruined DC movies as I grew up with DC comics and to this day still particularly prefer DC comics than Marvel ones. But the movies has been pretty awful.

Just a genuinely curious question: if you haven’t watched it, how are you sure Mockney has hit a home run with his review?

I think a lot of overrating but overall, much better than the JW release. I’d go with a 7/10, after thinking the 2017 release was a 4/10, or a “generous” 5.

 

[Paxi]

Night and day difference. Awesome movie.

 

[evil_geko]

Just like the post I was replying to, I'm not talking specifically about this one film, and nowhere have I said I hate it. I've actually only seen a tiny bit of it so far, so can't yet say what I think about it.

When I was saying "you" etc, wasn't specifically walking about you per se, so sorry about confusion.

 

[afrocentricity]

So... For the redcafe movies aficionados, are WB supposed to change what they are doing for you? I mean y'all still in the minority at the moment but regardless. Are we supposed to have DC movies looking exactly like Marvel movies until everything is the same? No thanks... I prefer them being different types of movies doing different things, but that's me.

I make fun of y'all because it baffles me that you bother to watch a film that you know you aren't going to like. I say know, because it's true, you're mostly the same feckers that were moaning on here about all the previous DC movies (and before that Marvel movies too before it was cool to like them).

So in summary...

 

[Ish]

So... For the redcafe movies aficionados, are WB supposed to change what they are doing for you? I mean y'all still in the minority at the moment but regardless. Are we supposed to have DC movies looking exactly like Marvel movies until everything is the same? No thanks... I prefer them being different types of movies doing different things, but that's me.

I make fun of y'all because it baffles me that you bother to watch a film that you know you aren't going to like. I say know, because it's true, you're mostly the same feckers that were moaning on here about all the previous DC movies (and before that Marvel movies too before it was cool to like them).

So in summary...

 

[decorativeed]

So... For the redcafe movies aficionados, are WB supposed to change what they are doing for you? I mean y'all still in the minority at the moment but regardless. Are we supposed to have DC movies looking exactly like Marvel movies until everything is the same? No thanks... I prefer them being different types of movies doing different things, but that's me.

I make fun of y'all because it baffles me that you bother to watch a film that you know you aren't going to like. I say know, because it's true, you're mostly the same feckers that were moaning on here about all the previous DC movies (and before that Marvel movies too before it was cool to like them).

So in summary...

I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding the issue. People want good films, and that's regardless of subject matter. It's regardless of studio.

WB/DC have produced mainly bad-mediocre films. We watch them regardless of this because we love the characters, and we still hold out hope of seeing a good film about them. We know that this is possible - they've already produced two or three good films - but when we end up with dreck like Batman v Superman, Suicide Squad and WW84, we can't help but remark on the fact that it's garbage. It's not because we favour Marvel over DC like we're supporting United over City, it's just that one of those consistently makes good, enjoyable, escapist entertainment, while the other fails to deliver this more often than not.

I like difference too, I love a bit of variety to life, but the most obvious difference here is one of quality of story telling and lack of vision.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

So... For the redcafe movies aficionados, are WB supposed to change what they are doing for you? I mean y'all still in the minority at the moment but regardless. Are we supposed to have DC movies looking exactly like Marvel movies until everything is the same? No thanks... I prefer them being different types of movies doing different things, but that's me.

I make fun of y'all because it baffles me that you bother to watch a film that you know you aren't going to like. I say know, because it's true, you're mostly the same feckers that were moaning on here about all the previous DC movies (and before that Marvel movies too before it was cool to like them).

So in summary...

I loved the darkness that you can feel throughout. It is different and I agree different is good. I'll always be a fan of Batman no matter who plays him. It's the history of their stories that makes him and the rest special to me. It's not only this one movie it's everything else. It's not always going to be represented the same but again that's a good thing. A person just has to look at the movie with knowledge of the characters and use that to build and interpret. Everything isn't going to be depicted you have to bring your own sauce.

 

[Rustyspider13]

Finally finished it after three sittings, which is probably an indicator of where I am with this film. I'd give it a 6.5/10, easily better than the original, but not good enough for me to want a continuation of the story. I'm not going to bother using spoiler tags as most of the people here have already watched it.

The good

Visuals-It looks much better. No CG moustache alone would put it over the top of the original, but some very nice shots and cinematography present. The effects are competent. Flash's running still looks goofy but his time reversal visuals were very cool. Actions scenes look much better in the '300' lighting than it did with Whedon's warm color tone.

Plot-It's coherent. A lot of character and story development that wasn't present in the original, helps fill in some holes regarding Darkseid and Steppenwolf. Still too long, but as a hail mary from Snyder I understand he wanted to include everyhting he could. This brings me to the character who benefited the most from the new runtime-

Cyborg-Ray Fisher is the MVP of the film. If anything is worth saving from this version of the DCEU, it's him. He desperately needs a re-design but I'd be happy to see him in a solo film. He'd be a bit too powerful in the age of information but that can lead to some interesting scenarios.

The bad-Excessive use of 'Snyderisms'

Slow motion-Unbelievable amount. Like at some point I wondered if Snyder was just using it to see if he can make a world record. His need to make scenes feel 'epic' is a detriment to this film. Which brings me to my next point-

Score-Some very weird choices regards to score usage. Especially in the first half, almost every scene has a track running behind it to make it more emotional/badass/whatever. The most egregious one is the amazon 'haaahaaaaa' that accompanies almost every scene WW does something. A rock score when the league is simply walking into the tunnels also felt pretty weird. Sometimes scenes need to breathe and subtlety would help in those cases. I'm glad the scenes with the JL members talking to each other were left unscored.

Violence-I know it's R rated and that's Snyder's main thing. But the film revels in an excessive level of brutality from the beginning to the end. Cases in point-WW blew up a side of a building to stop a terrorist when she could've dispatched him just as easily as she did the others and then beheaded Steppenwolf after he got stabbed through the chest and was already out of commission. I guess the point is to portray WW as a warrior first, but her other DCEU depictions don't lay it on as thick.

Miscellaneous weirdness-Martian Manhunter posing as Martha to manipulate Lois, why? It seemed like someone told MM that Lois was important for JL2, so she needs to be in good health. Bizarre.

Flash tipping the sword to WW, why? She did nothing with it here. I think she sliced a parademon with it in the original. Some of Barry's dialogue also seemed like it was trying too hard to push the socially awkward angle.

Final thoughts-The DCEU has moved on. You can see how in the films that have followed JL like Aquaman and Shazam. The fact that WW can't fly in this film where she could back in 1984 is just a simple inconsistency that proves the filmmakers want to move on as well. Also, an evil Superman story has been done to death and only strengthens my view that Snyder just can't come to grips with Superman as a character. I'm glad the Snyder cut exists. Even though my dislikes are the majority of this post, I liked it a fair amount. My only fear is that WB will give Snyder the helm of the DCEU again without understanding that audiences won't like every JL film to be 4 hours.

 

[Sweet Square]

Marvel movies until everything is the same? No thanks... I prefer them being different types of movies doing different things, but that's me.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Probably my favourite Snyder movie after Watchmen, but it still suffers from a lack of proper story structure. You don't use windows for your foundations or have a doorframe made out of cheese. And yet every time he makes a movie, except probably 300, Snyder always has a script that meanders between "moments". Having said all that; a lot the moments in this movie are superb. I'm still thinking about that Flash time travel scene at the end, and Cyborg's entire arc. You can really understand why Fisher was totally pissed off at his role being cut apart so much in the Whedon version. I'll probably remember these moments longer than anything in a Marvel movie.

But the plot is just plain shaky and I don't think you could edit it to be better. But an edit could still maintain the characters' development arcs if you tried hard enough. You could take out the scenes between DeSaad and Steppenwolf, for one thing. Steppy already has a lot of scenes where he talks about seeking redemption. He also talks about Darkseid coming so, when he does at the end, it could be a nice reveal. You could get rid of the slow pacing in some scenes like the arrow being fired to signal WW, Aquaman going for a swim, Supes walking back into the ship to browse the Spring catalogue of costumes, or Lois buying coffee. You can also rip out the initial Wonder Woman scene in the museum, but then there's the problem of bugger all happening at the start action wise.

And, after all that, the plot itself would still be fecked. You really don't need four hours to tell this story and give your characters depth. I'm happy that Flash and Cyborg have things to do in this version and actually have an impact on the story rather than just filling the ranks, but this film like a lot of Snyder's work spends a hell of a long time talking without saying much. Like my rant right now...

 

[Sweet Square]

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[sullydnl]

So... For the redcafe movies aficionados, are WB supposed to change what they are doing for you? I mean y'all still in the minority at the moment but regardless. Are we supposed to have DC movies looking exactly like Marvel movies until everything is the same? No thanks... I prefer them being different types of movies doing different things, but that's me.

I make fun of y'all because it baffles me that you bother to watch a film that you know you aren't going to like. I say know, because it's true, you're mostly the same feckers that were moaning on here about all the previous DC movies (and before that Marvel movies too before it was cool to like them).

So in summary...

I don't think the issue is people wanting DC films to be like the Marvel films. The issue is people wanting the DC films to be better films, as the Marvel films generally are.

In fact one of the things the DC films have been accused of is cynically trying to ape the tone of Marvel films like Guardians of the Galaxy but doing it poorly. But it's not like the Marvel films escape criticism from cinephiles either. In fact I suspect a lot of them think they all look the same anyway.

Even leaving aside the Marvel films though, there have already been multiple other Batman films that have been successful in terms of box office success, critical acclaim and industry awards. The downside to superhero films being taken seriously in that way (as their fans presumably wanted) and holding such dominance over the cinema landscape is that there's no longer any reason to assume that a superhero film only needs to be mindless fun and isn't to be analysed or compared with better films. The success and dominance of the genre raises the standard of what's expected and invites critical appraisal. So if DC are putting out substandard fare then it will be noticed.

 

[Dante]

The script has more stupid moments than your average Marvel movie (which is saying something!). But that's made up for by the characters are a bit more three-dimensional.

Overall, I like the tone of DC's attempt to reboot its universe. I just wish they employed more competent filmmakers.

For what it's worth, I watched the movie in x2.0 times the normal speed. It was decent for a two hour movie.