Just Stop Oil
- Thread starter Port Vale Devil
- Start date
And just like that, society made the collective decision to stop using oil.
Or maybe not.
"A true revolution of values will soon look uneasily on the glaring contrast of poverty and wealth. With righteous indignation, it will look across the seas and see individual capitalists of the West investing huge sums of money in Asia, Africa and South America, only to take the profits out with no concern for the social betterment of the countries, and say: "This is not just."" - MLK.
After Malcolm X was murdered, ironically, after becoming less radical post-Mecca, MLK moved into that niche (general anti-war-economy and so forth). Murdered thereafter.
But they'll give you only "Content of character" in schools, call it MLK day, wrap it up in Black History month, and pretend that their symbolic version, completely nullifed, of MLK was what MLK was about.
That quote above, by the way, speaks to the precise situation the world is in today.
Spot on.
Ah yes, the good old "I generally sympathise with the reasons for the protests, but the actual protests mildly inconvenience me twice a year so I'll be a fecking bigot instead" routine. So powerful, spot on indeed.
No.
Of course not
What part of do.ob's post makes you think he's a bigot?
Its a disgusting accusation to throw about in response to a measured post.
It's very, very obvious both he and I are talking about other people's potential thoughts and reactions. Very poor attempt at shit stirring.
He wasn't accusing do.ob of being a bigot, he was highlighting this
The "simple people" in that outline aren't drifting towards right wing populism because of some smelly hippies, it's because they agree with right wing populism. It's the same idea that gets thrown about with something like BLM, or immigrants, or advocating any kind of social tolerancy. The people might say "this is what pushed me to be a Nazi", but that's not the case, it's just a way of handling the cognitive dissonancy.
"If it wasn't for that advert with the black dad and white mum, I would have voted for the running on the ethnostate pledge" That kinda thing.
Edit: Beaten to it
What im a bit puzzled by is how british left wingers reconcile their desire for equality and a higher standard of living whilst supporting a group who's goals would completely annhilate the british economy in the midst of a standard of living crises. The main guys manifesto is available here.
https://archive.ph/rYAw6
https://archive.ph/rYAw6
Another strange thing is how protecting the environment and saving the planet for future generations seems to be viewed by many as a left wing issue.
Populist movement/politics/media preys on the disgruntled. Giving people a reason to be disgruntled is just feeding that movement. What does mocking people who get pushed into that trap achieve, other than make you feel better about yourselves. I also don't think the vast majority of people who dislike the tactics are bigots, either, but there is a pipeline. If the action is having the opposite effect on people to the desired one, I don't think mocking those people is going to be effective. Which draws the question, are the activitists really concerned about the effectiveness of their actions, or do they enjoy being morally superior and being the centre of attention? A good activist campaign probably needs some narcissistic people to carry out some of the stunts, but the leadership of the movement should see the bigger picture and be attuned to public opinion. Punch up, not down. You can't punch down and then complain that a % of people you punched down on are resentful and a % of those are pushed into the welcoming arms of populist movements.
@cafecillos @Cascarino
@cafecillos @Cascarino
In this case i referring to libcafe mainly.
Same logic, are redcafe right wingers not worried about the environment?
Can you explain how stop issuing new licenses for oil and coal and investment in green energies will annihilate the british economy?
I just think the premise is simply wrong, and anyone willing to be "pushed" that far in the opposite direction was extremely unlikely to actually truly support the cause in the first place. In other words, it's just a blatantly dishonest excuse and thus a pointless premise for a debate.
His manifesto goes way beyond that. If i wasnt on my phone i would copy/paste it if you cant be bothered reading it on his website.
I dont know who the right wingers on the caf are.
This topic is about JSO, so can we stick to that?
If you can give me any links about my second question that would be much more useful.
No i agree with you that if thats where the buck stops it wouldnt annihilate the british economy.
So why are you ignoring what's officially on their website and mentioning other stuff that's not there?
Probably because im misguided between the group and one of their main figures.
It looks like the definition of a strawman to me.
The American Department of Defense is both the largest consumer of energy in the US and also the world’s largest institutional consumer of petroleum(Which means it’s the world’s largest institutional emitter of greenhouse gases).
While orange confetti and puzzle pieces thrown onto Wimbledon centre court is funny it also isn’t an answer to climate change.
We are pretty fecked tbh. We have to hope the worsen conditions of both the economy and climate pushes people together so they can organise a new system. Everything else is pointless noise.
While orange confetti and puzzle pieces thrown onto Wimbledon centre court is funny it also isn’t an answer to climate change.
We are pretty fecked tbh. We have to hope the worsen conditions of both the economy and climate pushes people together so they can organise a new system. Everything else is pointless noise.
It has never ever been put forward as the answer to climate change. What a weird idea.
That pipeline is absolutely a thing, but look at the stuff that disgruntles them. Black president? Disgruntled. Gay couple in a sitcom? Disgruntled. Mount gets no 7? Disgruntled. If you want to fix the pipeline, it's not avoiding these issues and lying to these folk, it's a holistic approach that's needed. Education, workers rights, a fair media, and a bajillion other things. You offer those disgruntled your sympathy, and an attempt at understanding them, but why not the protestors who want to ensure the future of countless lives? (Even if you think they're doing a bad job). You think they want to enjoy being morally superior and the center of attention, but some of these narcissists have gotten years in prison for their beliefs.
For the second part, it is effective what they're doing, it's just annoying. Have a look at all the big protests that involved nation wide protests, the vast vast majority involved public disruption. Punching up is great, but public disruption is really important as well on top of that. Look at the amount of dialogue they've generated. They're never going to win over a majority of the public, if the threat of global disaster doesn't do it, and a fun bake sale won't get screentime, they have feck all options. They're trying to stay in the news, and convince more diehards to join them and keep up the pressure.
Oh I'm not trying to be effective, if I was I'd be trying to do something substantial. If someone said "I don't care about climate change and these protestors are annoying" I wouldn't care, it's the misconception of historical protests and their methods that's fun pointing out.
I have actually admitted that i was misguided between the differences of his own manifesto and the official goals of JSO.
I wasn't hoping for it. Just making the point that while the protesters seem to find this funny, they'll get themselves hurt.
Half of the times I've voted, it's been for the Greens in Ireland. I just think the JSO protesters are daft.
It’s their answer into pushing the public and governments to action. There’s a disconnect between them going on tv talking about the millions dying from climate change/most important issue humanity is facing and then their actions of chucking orange paint everywhere.
It’s all very silly.
Who on earth would marry George Osborne?!!!!
There has been so much talk and nothing has been done. Thunbergs "Blah blah blah" quote from two years ago was making that point.
feck going on tv and talking nicely about it, that approach has had absolutely zero impact.
More Orange paint please, more people being pissed off please. Being nice hasnt worked at all.
Are you trying to compare people, who are driving a car, to racists and neo nazis?
I like the orange paint, I think it's better than nothing, but there are other things that can be done that are not talking nicely or orange paint, though they are hard for us to discuss in this setting or indeed any setting where our words are recorded for posterity.
I agree on holistic approach required to tackle populist pipeline. And I do empathise with the protestors, that's why I'm critical of some of their actions. I agree with their cause and fully support their actions when it is punching up. I even think actions which indirectly hamper the public are good (disrupting sporting events some argue people have spent hard earnt savings to see). I'm just completely against actions which solely target regular people, like blocking roads when people are on the school run, taking kids to an acitivity, commuting to work or going to a long awaited medical appointment. And I worry that this is a sympton of a lack oversight or understanding in the movement, and the end result has some negative results. Whether its a net negative would be impossible to measure, but I think it's clear its not optimal. And I criticise them because I want them to campaign optimally, because I support their goals.
Getting conversation started is good but I think 99% of the conversation I've seen has been about the methods used. I think you're right that it seems their goal isn't to win a majority of public opinion, but it still seems counterproductive to me to alienate a large swath of the public, and I'm not sure what the point of big public demonstrations is if not to win over the public? Targeting politicians, industry, business and decision makers would seem more effective, would get as much attention, would be less divisive amongst the public, and applies pressure directly on people who actually influence things.
In terms of recruiting more diehards to join them, my counter would be - how many apolitical or apathetic people do they push towards being diehards against their movement? Creating so much negative opinion is going to have a knock on effect. Feeding the populist pipeline in general, or even just pushing someone to go into industry or politics and oppose them.
Don't worry, at least we made a lot of value for shareholders.
What shareholders? I kinda missed the joke.
We're not talking about whatever vicious circle of stupidity is going on in America, it's privileged students deciding the best way to challenge climate change is to harass regular people while they are driving to work, instead of taking on politicians or corporations. Choosing to fight against the working class instead of the people with money and power. That doesn't excuse some poeple turning into bigots, but if you want to win people for your cause it's not a good idea to spit in their face and shout "join my cause you stupid cnut!".
It isn't just particularly students, in the UK, from the pictures I've seen there seems to be a lot of older folks involved