Just Stop Oil

[Stack]

We're not talking about whatever vicious circle of stupidity is going on in America, it's privileged students deciding the best way to challenge climate change is to harass regular people while they are driving to work, instead of taking on politicians or corporations. Choosing to fight against the working class instead of the people with money and power. That doesn't excuse some poeple turning into bigots, but if you want to win people for your cause it's not a good idea to spit in their face and shout "join my cause you stupid cnut!".

From an earlier posted tweet.

"A few years ago I threw paint over the central hall of Kings College to force the university to stop fossil fuel investment. Within 5 minutes the Vice Principal was on the scene. He says, "Roger actions like this shut down the conversation". I said ... "this is the first conversation I've had with you". BANG BANG.

You make the mistake of thinking the whole lovely nicey nice approach is going to make a difference. Its done absolutely fecking nothing for the last 25 years.
Wake up.
More Orange paint please, more pissed off people attending disrupted events.
The debates and conversations get fired up far quicker than your proposed snooze fest.

 

[Red in STL]

From an earlier posted tweet.

"A few years ago I threw paint over the central hall of Kings College to force the university to stop fossil fuel investment. Within 5 minutes the Vice Principal was on the scene. He says, "Roger actions like this shut down the conversation". I said ... "this is the first conversation I've had with you". BANG BANG.

You make the mistake of thinking the whole lovely nicey nice approach is going to make a difference. Its done absolutely fecking nothing for the last 25 years.
Wake up.
More Orange paint please, more pissed off people attending disrupted events.
The debates and conversations get fired up far quicker than your proposed snooze fest.

I wonder, do you know what the stated aims of Just Stop Oil are?

 

[Stack]

I wonder, do you know what the stated aims of Just Stop Oil are?

Yes and they are completely unworkable but they have successfully in the last 6 months made far more noise than the previous 25 years of nicey nice talky talk.
Wake up.
Softly softly has done absolutely fecking nothing. Its time for disruption. Its irritating and inconvenient, its better than the convenience of doing nothing.

 

[Cascarino]

@Trequarista10 They’ve definitely made some cockups, someone earlier in the thread mentioned their name and I think they’d have avoided a lot of hassle with a different name, one conveying their specific goal of the government halting issuing new licenses for fossil fuel exploration and drilling. The methods you mentioned are preferable, but last year when they targeted the likes of energy firms, Home office buildings, MI5,Harrods, Bugatti, Ferrari etc it got relatively minuscule media coverage compared to them pissing off the public. Osborne being confetti’d was funny and and gotten a lot of coverage, but you’ve had politicians from across the aisle coming out and condemning it (though the reaction of people to it definitely seems more positive, at least from the small sample of people I’ve spoken to who are usually against them), but it’ll be a hard thing to do with regularity.

For the apolitical/apathetic part, they’ll stay apathetic. People who believe in climate change but find them annoying will vote for whoever they were originally were going to, they won’t pollute harder.

We're not talking about whatever vicious circle of stupidity is going on in America, it's privileged students deciding the best way to challenge climate change is to harass regular people while they are driving to work, instead of taking on politicians or corporations. Choosing to fight against the working class instead of the people with money and power. That doesn't excuse some poeple turning into bigots, but if you want to win people for your cause it's not a good idea to spit in their face and shout "join my cause you stupid cnut!".

Have they specifically targeted the working class? And they’ve been targeting the corporations too, it’s just that it doesn’t get anywhere near the same amount of column space or screen time.

If you could coordinate them what would you get them doing?

 

[Red in STL]

Yes and they are completely unworkable but they have successfully in the last 6 months made far more noise than the previous 25 years of nicey nice talky talk.
Wake up.
Softly softly has done absolutely fecking nothing. Its time for disruption. Its irritating and inconvenient, its better than the convenience of doing nothing.

And what are their aims?

 

[Stack]

And what are their aims?

Here you go.
Read for yourself
https://juststopoil.org/

 

[do.ob]

From an earlier posted tweet.

"A few years ago I threw paint over the central hall of Kings College to force the university to stop fossil fuel investment. Within 5 minutes the Vice Principal was on the scene. He says, "Roger actions like this shut down the conversation". I said ... "this is the first conversation I've had with you". BANG BANG.

You make the mistake of thinking the whole lovely nicey nice approach is going to make a difference. Its done absolutely fecking nothing for the last 25 years.
Wake up.
More Orange paint please, more pissed off people attending disrupted events.
The debates and conversations get fired up far quicker than your proposed snooze fest.

Glueing yourself to the street to meet new people, lonely folks should try it.

 

[Stack]

Glueing yourself to the street to meet new people, lonely folks should try it.

Pathetic reply.

 

[Camilo]

Yes and they are completely unworkable but they have successfully in the last 6 months made far more noise than the previous 25 years of nicey nice talky talk.
Wake up.
Softly softly has done absolutely fecking nothing. Its time for disruption. Its irritating and inconvenient, its better than the convenience of doing nothing.

This reads like the panicked nonsense they all pedal. There's make believe and there's reality, and the reality is most people don't care, what will happen will happen, and we'll probably all be fine regardless.

 

[do.ob]

Have they specifically targeted the working class? And they’ve been targeting the corporations too, it’s just that it doesn’t get anywhere near the same amount of column space or screen time.

If you could coordinate them what would you get them doing?

Who else are you trying to primarily affect if you decide to block random streets instead of politicians or the property of some company?

 

[Red in STL]

Here you go.
Read for yourself
https://juststopoil.org/

I don't need to, I posted it in this thread 2-3 days ago

 

[Cascarino]

Who else are you trying to primarily affect if you decide to block random streets instead of politicians or the property of some company?

As a representee of the working class, I'm happy to inform you that we do now allow other classes to use our roads

 

[Stack]

This reads like the panicked nonsense they all pedal. There's make believe and there's reality, and the reality is most people don't care, what will happen will happen, and we'll probably all be fine regardless.

Back in the early 80s the South African Rugby team came to tour NZ. It was during the era of Apartheid. It was a racist rugby tour and the Govts line was "keep politics out of sport"
NZ had already been on the receiving end of an African boycott of the Olympics because of NZs sporting ties to South Africa.
People protested the tour here in NZ, it was a major issue and there were huge battles with police and public division. Tour games were interrupted and games shut down. I was at those protests.

It started a big and long discussion and set of attitude changes in NZ. South Africas Apartheid regime was dismantled a few years later. ( not because of the rugby tour protests but they were one of a multitude of pressures the SA regime were battling)

When nicey nice has done absolutely fecking nothing then disruption is the next step and back then it worked. Its already working now.

You are sitting on the wrong side of this debate. You are the one worrying about "what will people think" rather than why the feck has nothing worked so far.

More orange paint please, more sporting events interrupted. keep doing it till Govts and business start to move faster.

 

[do.ob]

Pathetic reply.

I don't think your comparison merited a better response. You said disrupting the university was good, because it lead to a talk with the vice principle, so I have to assume that you're trying to make the point that disrupting random car drivers is good, because you get to chat to random car drivers. A more analogous comparison would be trying to get university policy changed and going about it by disrupting other students, as they are trying to learn, instead of targeting the institution or people with power.

As a representee of the working class, I'm happy to inform you that we do now allow other classes to use our roads

If you want to target corporations, you can target corporations.
If you want to target excessive riches, you can target excessive riches.
If you want to target politicians, you can target politicians.

If you just block random streets instead I have to assume you're deliberately putting working class people in your crosshairs, and I'm fairly sure the poorer you are the less you can afford to lose two hours of your day.

 

[Fridge chutney]

I just want to point out that people getting mad about this stuff are the embodiment of why not enough is being done. Because while accepting that climate change is real and must be fought, they still don’t want to acknowledge that in order to do so, our way of life has to change in some ways.
Asking protestors to protest in ways that don’t affect everyday life is the same kind of denial. „Sure your protest is valid. But please don’t affect my way of life in any way.“
Admitting to the necessity of such protests would be admitting that our way of life has to change. Can’t do that. So let’s get mad at the protesters and let’s make up some stupid reasons to do so.

Great post, well said!

 

[Stack]

I don't think your comparison merited a better response. You said disrupting the university was good, because it lead to a talk with the vice principle, so I have to assume that you're trying to make the point that disrupting random car drivers is good, because you get to chat to random car drivers. A more analogous comparison would be trying to get university policy changed and going about it by disrupting other students instead of targeting institutions or people with power.

Good greif. Sorry have to be blunt. What an idiotic reply. I never said or implied that disrupting random car drivers is good because you get to shat to random car drivers. thats just a weird and moronic angle to take. Grow up, wake up. The softly softly apporach has for over 25 years done absolutely fecking nothing.

 

[redshaw]

They're getting attention. The climate thread on here is dead and interest in the general public was fleeting at best.

The public use oil is around half, the other half is business but it's also servicing each other. No-one gives a feck about blocking commercial vehicles connected to big businesses. Huge awareness has to be brought into the public sphere so there's pressure on everyone to reduce and stop which means fundamental changes.

 

[Stack]

I just want to point out that people getting mad about this stuff are the embodiment of why not enough is being done. Because while accepting that climate change is real and must be fought, they still don’t want to acknowledge that in order to do so, our way of life has to change in some ways.
Asking protestors to protest in ways that don’t affect everyday life is the same kind of denial. „Sure your protest is valid. But please don’t affect my way of life in any way.“
Admitting to the necessity of such protests would be admitting that our way of life has to change. Can’t do that. So let’s get mad at the protesters and let’s make up some stupid reasons to do so.

Perfectly said, and said far more eloquently and succinctly than anything I have said. Your whole comment is perfect.

 

[Cascarino]

If you want to target corporations, you can target corporations.
If you want to target excessive riches, you can target excessive riches.
If you want to target politicians, you can target politicians.

If you just block random streets instead I have to assume you're deliberately putting working class people in your crosshairs, and I'm fairly sure the poorer you are the less you can afford to lose two hours of your day.

Yes, they're doing all three of these things. I just assume you haven't heard about it because it doesn't get as much coverage?

 

[do.ob]

Yes, they're doing all three of these things. I just assume you haven't heard about it because it doesn't get as much coverage?

I'm aware that other things are also happening, but I'm questioning this particular part of their approach.

 

[Cascarino]

I'm aware that other things are also happening, but I'm questioning this particular part of their approach.

I gotcha.

 

[maniak]

I have actually admitted that i was misguided between the differences of his own manifesto and the official goals of JSO.

I misinterpreted your post, sorry.

 

[maniak]

Are you trying to compare people, who are driving a car, to racists and neo nazis?

Yeah mate, people who drive cars are nazis...

 

[horsechoker]

Yeah mate, people who drive cars are nazis...

 

[DOTA]

Seems pretty clearcut to be honest.

 

[maniak]

fecking JSO...

 

[DOTA]

 

[horsechoker]

fecking JSO...

 

[noodlehair]

Good post



The bolded isn't how it works. Martin Luther King was a massively controversial figure during his time. He had high unfavorability ratings, if there were internet boards back then someone would have been typing "I just don't like the mess they leave, I agree with the message, but the way they've gone about it is wrong and I can only assume the KKK have installed him as a plant, he's united the country against his cause and it's just going to make people hate them more". When the WSPU were being disruptive in public and setting buildings on fire, wise sages just shook their heads "They've simply proven why they don't deserve a vote". They're not trying to get everyone on side, no matter what these protests do it's not going to achieve that. They're trying to raise awareness and reach the minimum amount of people required. Time is running out and they have feck all chance of succeeding anyway, but props to them.

What sort of protest is going to stop oil directly? Assassinations? Bombs? The milquetoast nerds of this island can't handle some confetti I don't know how receptive they'd be towards that.

Spoiler

Are you seriously comparing Just Stop Oil to Martin Luther King?

Everyone knows what he stood for and all those protests at the time were aimed towards combating racial discrimination, something that if you don't get willingly you have no choice but to fight for. This isn't remotely the same thing and tbh its insulting to compare the two at all.

This lot are protesting about I don't even know what. One week they're lying on the M25, the next they're disrupting a game of snooker, the next they apparently have some kind of issue with London Pride. They're just indiscriminately and spitefully attacking people, and then you lot are in here whining about how ridiculous it is that people would get upset about that, or the idea that it isn't really going to help anything (despite it being utterly fecking obvious to anyone who spends a second thinking about it logically, thatit it isnt going to help anything and is going to piss people off).

There is one significant change they have helped bring about so far, and that is to enable the government to have enough support to bring in new anti protest legislation.

What they're cause/activity should be doing is getting us all to talk about how we can realistically cut carbon emissions, oil usage etc. Instead it takes attention away from that and it's arguments about whether its reasonable to lay on a motorway at rush hour and block traffic/endanger lives, and force people to physically drag you aside so ambulances can pass, which of course it fecking isn't OK to do, even though a good chunk of you are stupid enough to pretend it is, for some reason.

This is exactly what I mean about being left wing for the sake of it. This lot can carry on doing these protests forever and you can carry on complaining about people not liking it forever. Its never going to stop oil, is it? But as long as everyone can pretend they're being a do gooder then no matter if any good is actually done?

Here's some things that might at least help "stop oil" or at least create actual discussion about it:
- protesting outside or blockading oil depots
- using the Internet or protests to raise awareness of those profiting from oil at the expense of the planet and normal people
- targeting politicians who are able to influence oil related decisions
- speaking to opposition political groups or parties to try and send a joint message
- raising awareness of actual legitimate anti climate policy from our current government, such as their deliberate stalling of wind energy, pro fracking nonsense, etc. Using this to pressure opposition parties to offer alternative directions.

And of course all of that in itself doesn't really solve the problem, which is that the planet and its resources aren't infinite and there's really nothing we can do about that without some pretty groundbreaking scientific advancements. But at least it would a step towards acknowledging and confronting the real problem.

Honestly I'm actually surprised at the general tone of this thread because usually this part of the forum is quite smart, but this thread is just full of stupid. I don't know what any of you are expecting is going to happen

 

[cafecillos]

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

What shareholders? I kinda missed the joke.

 

[Cascarino]

Are you seriously comparing Just Stop Oil to Martin Luther King?

Everyone knows what he stood for and all those protests at the time were aimed towards combating racial discrimination, something that if you don't get willingly you have no choice but to fight for. This isn't remotely the same thing and tbh its insulting to compare the two at all.

No I used an analogy to point out why your post was stupid

 

[4bars]

I just want to point out that people getting mad about this stuff are the embodiment of why not enough is being done. Because while accepting that climate change is real and must be fought, they still don’t want to acknowledge that in order to do so, our way of life has to change in some ways.
Asking protestors to protest in ways that don’t affect everyday life is the same kind of denial. „Sure your protest is valid. But please don’t affect my way of life in any way.“
Admitting to the necessity of such protests would be admitting that our way of life has to change. Can’t do that. So let’s get mad at the protesters and let’s make up some stupid reasons to do so.

Thats an amazing take and so true

 

[noodlehair]

No I used an analogy to point out why your post was stupid

An analogy of comparing a group of people literally fighting for basic human right and targetting the society that was denying them those rights, with some oil protesters who somehow thought a gay pride march was a relevant and valid target.

I don't think you have any business throwing the word stupid at anyone else tbh.

Why don't you try explaining what good you think these protests and calling people stupid is actually going to achieve? Because If the answer is nothing them maybe you just need to grow up.

 

[Cascarino]

An analogy of comparing a group of people literally fighting for basic human right and targetting the society that was denying them those rights, with some oil protesters who somehow thought a gay pride march was a relevant and valid target.

I don't think you have any business throwing the word stupid at anyone else tbh.

Why don't you try explaining what good you think these protests and calling people stupid is actually going to achieve? Because If the answer is nothing them maybe you just need to grow up.

I haven’t called anyone stupid. I made it one paragraph in, and it became clear that one of two possibilities was true. You don’t understand how analogies work, or (and far more likely), you do know how they work and purposefully misunderstood in some weird attempt at I don’t even know what?

And no, you’re doing it again. I was pointing out how the vast majority of successful protests involve public disruption, and how MLK was very divisive in his time. The exact same arguments you used were the ones used against him. Same with the WSPU. Regarding the causes of these protests, do you believe in the scientific consensus on climate change?

Why don't you try explaining what good you think these protests and calling people stupid is actually going to achieve? Because If the answer is nothing them maybe you just need to grow up.

And like I said, I haven’t called you stupid. (Unlike you, who has literally called me stupid). So why should I waste my time on you?

 

[noodlehair]

I haven’t called anyone stupid. I made it one paragraph in, and it became clear that one of two possibilities was true. You don’t understand how analogies work, or (and far more likely), you do know how they work and purposefully misunderstood in some weird attempt at I don’t even know what?

And no, you’re doing it again. I was pointing out how the vast majority of successful protests involve public disruption, and how MLK was very divisive in his time. The exact same arguments you used were the ones used against him. Same with the WSPU. Regarding the causes of these protests, do you believe in the scientific consensus on climate change?



And like I said, I haven’t called you stupid. (Unlike you, who has literally called me stupid). So why should I waste my time on you?

I'm not sure what there was to misunderstand. You are trying to apply reasoning to Just Stop Oil protests on the basis of what Martin Luther King did. This is at best a massive stretch as the two scenarios just aren't in any way relatable at all. No one is oppressing Just Stop Oil. They are not a race of people who have no choice but to fight for basic human rights. You can't just use the word analogy to justify spouting nonsense. Well you can but it doesn't make it not nonsense.

And you are doing it again in dodging the question. What do you realistically expect these protests to achieve if they carry on just targetting everyone and everything? ALL protests involve disruption. I have no issue with that. Successful protests have a goal or outcome that they want to achieve, and the protests and actions are then geared towards it.

I believe in Climate change just fine. I simply don't believe that if I went and sat down in the middle of the M25 for example, it would help to stop or solve climate change. I'd like someome to explain to me how that is a realistic plan.

And yes I think blindly defending it when it seems no one can explain that is actually quite stupid, because there's no reason or logic to it, and actually it is probably doing more harm than good, because while Just Stop Oil are busy acting like the entire population is their enemy and drawing negative attention to themselves, the government is busy passing legislation to allow raw sewage to be pumped into rivers, reduce human rights, etc. And deliberately mothballing or stalling renewable energy production, backtracking and toning down on energy conservation requirements in new build housing etc. And I reckon if people actually cared about such things and were smart, they'd be able to educate themselves and realise this, and not waste time basically juat being annoying and hostile to the general population.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

Seeing as they are saying up to 100 million people are going to be made refugees because of climate change, I would say Just Stop Oil are fighting for human rights.

 

[Cascarino]

I'm not sure what there was to misunderstand. You are trying to apply reasoning to Just Stop Oil protests on the basis of what Martin Luther King did. This is at best a massive stretch as the two scenarios just aren't in any way relatable at all. No one is oppressing Just Stop Oil. They are not a race of people who have no choice but to fight for basic human rights. You can't just use the word analogy to justify spouting nonsense. Well you can but it doesn't make it not nonsense.

Analogy. “a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.”

My post didn’t morally equate the two protests, nor did it compare their aims. It focused solely on how the public at the time reacted to MLK's methods, same with the WPSU. MLK died with around a 75% disapproval rating, and after a decade of peaceful protests the suffragettes got violent. I don't care how righteous you think the cause, or how their aims were clear cut. It was giving you an answer when you ask "How has pissing the public off ever helped".

And you are doing it again in dodging the question. What do you realistically expect these protests to achieve if they carry on just targetting everyone and everything? ALL protests involve disruption. I have no issue with that. Successful protests have a goal or outcome that they want to achieve, and the protests and actions are then geared towards it.

I believe in Climate change just fine. I simply don't believe that if I went and sat down in the middle of the M25 for example, it would help to stop or solve climate change. I'd like someome to explain to me how that is a realistic plan.

It's been talked about in the thread. The goal is to get the government to halt the issuing of new licenses for oil exploration and drilling. If you believe in climate change, and as Peter mentioned above assumedly think it will cause countless deaths and displacements over the next few decades, surely you think this is a humanities issue?

And yes I think blindly defending it when it seems no one can explain that is actually quite stupid, because there's no reason or logic to it, and actually it is probably doing more harm than good, because while Just Stop Oil are busy acting like the entire population is their enemy and drawing negative attention to themselves, the government is busy passing legislation to allow raw sewage to be pumped into rivers, reduce human rights, etc. And deliberately mothballing or stalling renewable energy production, backtracking and toning down on energy conservation requirements in new build housing etc. And I reckon if people actually cared about such things and were smart, they'd be able to educate themselves and realise this, and not waste time basically juat being annoying and hostile to the general population.

Then why are you crying because you thought I called you stupid? Surely you have enough experience dealing with that kind of thing lad.

 

[nickm]

It's been talked about in the thread. The goal is to get the government to halt the issuing of new licenses for oil exploration and drilling. If you believe in climate change, and as Peter mentioned above assumedly think it will cause countless deaths and displacements over the next few decades, surely you think this is a humanities issue?

I don't have a problem with that as a goal, but they need a broad mass of people to agree with them if they want to effect change. I don't see how they get that with these tactics. They also need someone on TV making an argument, which you never see - just these tedious stunts.

 

[Red in STL]

I don't have a problem with that as a goal, but they need a broad mass of people to agree with them if they want to effect change. I don't see how they get that with these tactics. They also need someone on TV making an argument, which you never see - just these tedious stunts.

This is their biggest problem, most people think they just want oil banned now, which everyone knows is never going to happen so they just ignore them as pointless nutters, if people actually knew what they were trying to achieve then they'd get a lot more support or sympathy, so what they need is better marketing/messaging