Just Stop Oil

Yeah, I didn't go after it started getting popular so I never saw it like that. I think that it must have been all shut down not long after.

It is true though that we could just walk up to it during the old days and that parties and picnics werec routine. I was kind of shocked when I saw it years later all fenced off and a ticket office in place.

As for the just stop oil protest it was shocking to see the video footage and I felt sorry for the people (volunteers at the site?) trying to stop them. In terms of the protest though? It was shocking enough to be noticed so it did its job I guess.

I'm not convinced it's a great way to win hearts and minds, but then I'm not sure what is capable of doing that at the moment. We've been offered the science and we're already seeing some of the effects and it hasn't been enough. What will it take?
 
What will it take?
Mass urination on the Great Wall of China.

Seriously, it will take capital to realize it is the death of capital. That should have happened years ago. There is nothing, excepting fusion which has its own roll-out problems, and grand de-desertification schemes, which exists right now to really stem the tide. When quitting is certain death, it's still worth trying not to just quit when you have a chance of living (as a species, not individual).
 
I guess I would look more into the direction of trying to make the existential threat tangible. Show the Dutch that the rising water level is gonna feck em up with well edited demonstration videos of their water defenses collapsing.


My personal feelings on this have been very influenced by seeing animal rights propaganda and seeing how others react to it.

There are common features in both causes. The direct influence of animal ag on emissions. Pretty widespread agreement on the science (good consensus on animal cognition and environmental impacts of growing animals, total consensus on climate change).
But two common features are very important. One is that a lot of influential organisations (like oil companies and agribusiness) profit off the current model, and use this influence to do fake research and spread false propaganda. The most important common feature is that the movement for animal rights and climate change activism are both protests for self-denial, less pleasure, less convenience, etc.

About the kind of thing you are showing:
The biggest genre of climate change video in the 00s, including An Inconvenient Truth itself, was exactly about rising sea levels, coastal flooding, etc. It was hegemonic for a decade - a decade of passive acceptance of the science and a shrug in terms of politics and economics. As years go by, the severity of the steps needed become more drastic, the protests become more varied and more frenzied, and are still met by a shrug and now also a frown.

We need top-down action which will necessitate negative lifestyle changes. Free/democratic/liberal governments do not have the will and capacity for that kind of top-down action when it is opposed by large sections of capital, and their people are not going to tolerate negative lifestyle changes.
The first government, for example, that proposed reducing meat consumption as part of their climate goals, was in very unfree China - and as far as I know, even they haven't dared follow up these recommendations with any actions at all. Because disincentivising meat would make the Shanghai lockdown look like the most popular govt decision in history.

I'm going to write a longer thing about the insane discourse surrounding Chinese EVs and solar panels, but it's clear that a long-term problem like this is just not important enough for capital, government, or people. So the few people who can see what is coming very clearly, and who have the misfortune of not being cynical cowardly husks (which I am), go insane and protest in insane ways.
 
This happened in the 60’s.
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Reminds me of a bit from Demetri Martin about rock, paper scissors. Rock is fine! It's just covered. No structural damage to rock!

These pesky protester should just protest somewhere that doesnt inconvenience or bother anyone. That'll show the world.
 
Seems like a weird protest all around. What is spraying Stonehenge supposed to achieve? How does this actually help the movement to address climate change? Just feels like a silly stunt that has no real meaning.

I think to be effective protests have to have some sort of actionable goal like the anti-genocide protests in the US want the US to stop investing shipping arms to Israel. That's a tangible goal, even if its unlikely the protests will actually force any politician to achieve that. For climate change, its not nearly so simple.
 
What I really don't understand is this:

So, clearly, they're willing to go beyond the law in order to get visibility. They've had many members arrested for public disruption, including glueing themselves to public transport, public roads, motorways etc etc.

All their line crossing has been perpetual to causing a nuisance to the average person and gaining a bad reputation for themselves.

Why don't they cross the line at the actual culprits? They've done small nuisances to ... petrol stations at Shell/BP etc, which is like hitting at the street dealers in essence. 4 guys got kicked out of a BP AGM a while back.

Why don't they just glue themselves to the entrances of oil and gas companies head offices? Hell, Vitol's head office in Victoria is quite literally just two small revolving doors. Chain link yourself like you do on the motorway at 6am and stop anyone from going into work. Rinse and repeat. It will actually piss the right people off.
 
Seems like a weird protest all around. What is spraying Stonehenge supposed to achieve? How does this actually help the movement to address climate change? Just feels like a silly stunt that has no real meaning.

I think to be effective protests have to have some sort of actionable goal like the anti-genocide protests in the US want the US to stop investing shipping arms to Israel. That's a tangible goal, even if its unlikely the protests will actually force any politician to achieve that. For climate change, its not nearly so simple.
They have a tangible goal, from their website: Just Stop Oil is a coalition of groups working together to ensure that the government commits to ending all new licenses and consents for the exploration, development and production of fossil fuels in the UK.
 
Human beings are weird creatures. Care more about the past than the future. Some lump of stones no less.
 
I'm sure there is a little upset about the graffiti but I suspect the real source of the rage is that the protesters offended public decency by jumping the string barrier. If lightning struck the stones and made an actual permanent mark, no one would be going this mad.
 
good, a moderately big twitter account summed up whatever i was trying to say incoherently

 
What I really don't understand is this:

So, clearly, they're willing to go beyond the law in order to get visibility. They've had many members arrested for public disruption, including glueing themselves to public transport, public roads, motorways etc etc.

All their line crossing has been perpetual to causing a nuisance to the average person and gaining a bad reputation for themselves.

Why don't they cross the line at the actual culprits? They've done small nuisances to ... petrol stations at Shell/BP etc, which is like hitting at the street dealers in essence. 4 guys got kicked out of a BP AGM a while back.

Why don't they just glue themselves to the entrances of oil and gas companies head offices? Hell, Vitol's head office in Victoria is quite literally just two small revolving doors. Chain link yourself like you do on the motorway at 6am and stop anyone from going into work. Rinse and repeat. It will actually piss the right people off.

https://www.independent.co.uk/clima...on-protest-just-stop-oil-latest-b2057000.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ally-work-protest-head-Shell-HQ-Waterloo.html

https://www.aberdeenlive.news/news/...aberdeen-headquarters-targeted-orange-7819186
 

None of these are disruptive, and they've done plenty of protests there over the years, also at banks etc.

But how is throwing paint over an office disruptive? How is staging a protest outside an office stopping the business from operating?

Block the doors,buy 10 tonnes of coal and dump it outside the front doors or something.
 
They have a tangible goal, from their website: Just Stop Oil is a coalition of groups working together to ensure that the government commits to ending all new licenses and consents for the exploration, development and production of fossil fuels in the UK.

I'd never know that from them spraying graffiti on Stonehenge. A protest needs to link that tangible goal to something that will make a difference. Don't think what they seem to be doing makes a difference. I'm sure they could devise ways to make the actual decision makers lives uncomfortable or forcing them to view the realities of what climate change will entail because those are the ones that matter. They should hire the KLF or some old Situationists to devise better protests for them.

And I could care less about the graffiti personally, I just don't see it as very effective moving any needles.
 
None of these are disruptive, and they've done plenty of protests there over the years, also at banks etc.

But how is throwing paint over an office disruptive? How is staging a protest outside an office stopping the business from operating?

Block the doors,buy 10 tonnes of coal and dump it outside the front doors or something.

Gluing yourselves to the entrance isn't disruptive?
 
I'd never know that from them spraying graffiti on Stonehenge. A protest needs to link that tangible goal to something that will make a difference. Don't think what they seem to be doing makes a difference. I'm sure they could devise ways to make the actual decision makers lives uncomfortable or forcing them to view the realities of what climate change will entail because those are the ones that matter. They should hire the KLF or some old Situationists to devise better protests for them.

And I could care less about the graffiti personally, I just don't see it as very effective moving any needles.

That's obviously not true. You learned it now, because of them spraying Stonehenge. You wouldn't have asked if they didn't do that.
 
They glued themselves to the reception and to the floor outside.

That isn't disrupting their business operations.

it would take exactly the same amount of time (5 minutes?) for the cops to clear them from the floor outside or from the doors. be honest, it's exactly the type of protest - annoying the easy operation of a corporate HQ - that you wanted.
and i know greenpeace used to run a ton of these, at oil HQs and at actual oil rigs, in the 00s too. achieved an equal amount. because the only people going out of their way to say "we need to make our living standards worse and will ruin our own lives to make that happen" will always be a small minority.


after the gulag was shut down, the soviet government found a much less sweeping and less awful way to restrict their political opponents. they used mental hospitals, calling their opponents insane. an internet rumour, which sounds made up, is that the justification given was that these were mad men, because they were finding something wrong in the perfect society.
i do think you have to be in some way mad to protest against climate change while destroying your own life and job prospects. it's a refusal to accept the grown-up "reality" of powerlessness, looking after number one, etc.
 
it would take exactly the same amount of time (5 minutes?) for the cops to clear them from the floor outside or from the doors. be honest, it's exactly the type of protest - annoying the easy operation of a corporate HQ - that you wanted.
and i know greenpeace used to run a ton of these, at oil HQs and at actual oil rigs, in the 00s too. achieved an equal amount. because the only people going out of their way to say "we need to make our living standards worse and will ruin our own lives to make that happen" will always be a small minority.


after the gulag was shut down, the soviet government found a much less sweeping and less awful way to restrict their political opponents. they used mental hospitals, calling their opponents insane. an internet rumour, which sounds made up, is that the justification given was that these were mad men, because they were finding something wrong in the perfect society.
i do think you have to be in some way mad to protest against climate change while destroying your own life and job prospects. it's a refusal to accept the grown-up "reality" of powerlessness, looking after number one, etc.

In Ukraine in the early 2000's, miners protested by dumping 30 tonnes of coal outside the local government building of Donetsk by doing truck sorties in the middle of the night.

Local government couldn't function for 3 weeks because they couldn't find a way to clear the coal out in a safe and efficient manner.
 
In Ukraine in the early 2000's, miners protested by dumping 30 tonnes of coal outside the local government building of Donetsk by doing truck sorties in the middle of the night.

Local government couldn't function for 3 weeks because they couldn't find a way to clear the coal out in a safe and efficient manner.

These aren't miners they are college kids! French, German, and Dutch farmers recently protested against green laws and taxes in the way you describe, by spraying manure or dumping dung from their farm vehicles at govt buildings. Think you're overestimating their resources and capabilities.