I think you have hit on a very important point that highlights that many fans' expectations of managers are unrealistic. There is this belief from many, and caftards are no exception, that a top manager can just waltz in and using the same players create a miracle by making dysfunctional teams functional. We have all seen a new manager in loads of teams get maybe 4 or 5 quick results, and then normality is restored. If Jose had come in December 2015 as many on here wanted, he would have been pretty much in a similar position to Klopp. Both would have been unwise to make immediate squad changes. Both have now set their stall on a new backbone (us with Zlatan, Progba, Bailly, DDG, Liverpool with those you mention). Both teams have yet to formalize their structure in such a way that they consistently perform. Being very critical, maybe over critical, of United, I have seen a 25 minute spell against Leicester and a full on 90 minutes against Stoker (where we drew), so not really seen this massive Jose impact as others have. I would argue that Rashford, Martial and Lingard who created most of our movement and speed last year and playing exactly as they did last year. As for Liverpool, the games I have seen seemed to show Liverpool as very workman like, but also quite a lot of 'what the feck do I do now" when in the last third. Also, some dodgy defending. As another poster said on here, I believe they both managers suffer from a clear plan B. I always felt with previous top managers, they had a clear plan B, in that they brought players on to play a different way, not bring on players to play the same way, a way not currently working. Can't see I have seen a plan B from either manager yet.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Quite the rant. My post was a little tongue-in-cheek highlighting that a fan base blighted by accusations of racism in recent years probably should avoid statements that can be construed as racist, even if just casually. But you don't like being called out do you?
You choose to post on a Man United forum and it's entirely up to you how you want to spend your brief mains privilege each week. There are a few decent Liverpool fans on here, we don't need any more of the parasitic types polluting the mains with derogatory remarks about United fans being noodle-eating Asians. Your intention was to offend based on race. If that's your bag, fair enough.
Good luck getting out of the newbs.
So Liverpool's fan base is accused of racisim ?
Erm... yeah .
Go'ed please explain ?
With Mourinho at United I made a post earlier in this thread about how he's gone away from his typical prototype of transitional football, a lot of your play is attack-orientated as of now, but its something Mourinho is attempting to do late in his career and from a tactical perspective it will be interesting to see how he goes about putting attacking patterns of play in to place. If it doesnt work out I think he'll revert to type and make the necessary adjustments and signings to implement his style and take care of any areas hes deficient in. The key point is as we've both said, he needs time much like Klopp did. He will need to experiment a little in my opinion.
In terms of impact I think a lot of what i said above translates to that point, the reason you havent seen a radical difference and shift in these players is because he isnt doing things the way he usually does, and I think for you guys it will look a little disjointed as he figures out how to play this way and weather he can pursue it or weather he shouldnt. I think its going to take a bit more time and patience then people were originally expecting of a Jose side, I think most people were probably expecting a Wham Bham 2 year instant impact then bye off you go, whereas for the reasons I've stated above I dont think its going to play out in that fashion.
With us theres still a long way for us to go, I dont agree with the " feck it what do we in the final third" statement you made, I think that statement was extremely applicable to us last season, often unless we were playing a top side which came on to us and gave us space to play, we struggled hugely but I think this season the addition of Mane and the re structured midfield has given us added pace and fludity going forwards, we've also managed a couple counter press goals this season so far which is a postive sign. We are a lot better going forwards this year, ofc an injury or 2 in certain areas could leave us looking blunt again but injuries permitting its a different animal SO far.
Interesting what you'd consider a plan B? I honestly dont know, I dont know what other clubs do in terms of that, in the past top class managers might have had more but the game has changed a lot since then. I dont think its possibe to create a plan B as good as your plan A without losing something in game, unless you mean the big lad upfront balls in to the box? I think what most mangers do these days is constantly tinker with the side in game subtely rather than making outright changes for what can be seen as visible plan B so to speak. Formations in our case in particular are largely irrelevant except for in the stages of the defensive side of our game and without the ball.
Which match are you on about? I was at both and my lasting memory is that Vida got 2 idiotic red cards, they didn't hustle us off the park, if anything we under performed after leading in both games.
I know I knocked it and I think over the season it'll cost you, but I think part of the reason you've had more success against park the bus teams is because you haven't got a recognised focal point. In the past, teams would have just watched Suarez closely and nullified your attack, but now they've got a few players to keep track of, all of which can interchange during the course of the game.
@Liver_bird I think a plan A is playing to your strengths, but in many cases the opposition may counter that.
As an example, we may use Martial as a point of attack on the left. The focus of most attacks going that way. However, the opposition may start doubling up on Martial, countering the plan. This may be seen as Martial isnt working so let us bring Depay or Young on. Sticking to the same plan of using the left. Not a plan B, just a different player playing out plan A.
Hence, plan A not working and plan B needs to kick in. We may need to move to a different formation, say 433 and do more attacking down the center, or try something to put a different threat on the opposition. Fergie was very good at this, sometimes he just relied on a bit of magic from someone like Ronaldo. Wenger never seems to have a plan Barnett, he plays one way and wins or loses by it.
As an example, we may use Martial as a point of attack on the left. The focus of most attacks going that way. However, the opposition may start doubling up on Martial, countering the plan. This may be seen as Martial isnt working so let us bring Depay or Young on. Sticking to the same plan of using the left. Not a plan B, just a different player playing out plan A.
Hence, plan A not working and plan B needs to kick in. We may need to move to a different formation, say 433 and do more attacking down the center, or try something to put a different threat on the opposition. Fergie was very good at this, sometimes he just relied on a bit of magic from someone like Ronaldo. Wenger never seems to have a plan Barnett, he plays one way and wins or loses by it.
This time last year we scored that 44 pass goal and we were all creaming ourselve with the possibilities. Turned to crap after that.
The good sides don't need a plan B. Ferguson & Wenger both won league titles & other silverware by bringing in the right players for the job. They might have had to tweak things during certain matches, but overall the methodology always stayed the same. Coaches & players work all week on the training ground trying to play a certain way. So attempting to implement a second playing style (just in case) wouldn't work, especially as the game has become far more technical now.
Well I'm certainly not done with you sunshine. Especially with your scurrilous little attempts at painting me, & other Liverpool fans, as some sort of right-wing, Nazi loving, racists simply because we chose to believe our player over a United one. This has nothing to do with the Suarez/Evra saga. But as you quite often do when you're in a corner you bring out the smoke & mirrors trying to back out of a situation that your hatred & loathing of Liverpool has dragged you into. The problem with you Krafty is that you let this LFC contempt over-ride any sense or intelligence you may have & you end up having something of a shocker on threads such as this, where for the best part has been very good. So do us all a favour & scurry back into your little hidey hole & don't bother coming out until you actually have something sensible to say.
Would you two like quit it? Both of you aren't covering yourselves in any glory here.
I'm pleased with what Klopp has done, and for the record, I'm thinking we should be in the top 4 this season. Talk of a title challenge seems a bit premature at this stage, despite our good start.
I'm pleased with what Klopp has done, and for the record, I'm thinking we should be in the top 4 this season. Talk of a title challenge seems a bit premature at this stage, despite our good start.
Milner was MotM at Swansea for me, Clive.
If you don't want to be called out for the stupid or bigoted things you say, don't say stupid or bigoted things. You learnt that one the hard way and had to come back with a wheedling apology.
If what I say bugs you, don't get involved. Or put me on ignore. Or join a forum more tolerant of your world views.
Stop punching yourself in the face.
I agree with that on City. Not sure theyll have the legs required for Guardiolas style for the whole season but would be silly to try to discount them.
Youre right about United. There have been flashes of cohesive play but the thing about our players is if they gel theres enough there to overpower most teams, whether itll be by playing fast attacking football or counter time will tell. Could as easily go tits up from too many draws.
Top4 this year wont be up for grabs like it was last year. How many times were we in with a shout of reclaiming it towards the end?
The dark horse this year is Spurs, not sure whats next for Potch. Does he need to win something this year or will Spurs be facing losing him to one of the big European clubs?
Yeah I thought he played very well in that game, would never have thought he'd be the slightest use as a fullback but it's working atm.
Spurs im unsure on, I think barring an injury crisis theyre too well structured to totally collapse out of the top four, they remind me a lot of our side under Rafa similar playstyles but ultimately is there enough going forwards over an entire season to clinch the title? I dont think so personally, however the league isnt as strong as it was almost a decade ago now (wow time fecking flies) and so if they have enough luck they could mount a serious challenge, but if not they'll still be in and around the top four.
All his attributes are ideally suited to playing full-back and if he'd played that position his entire career he'd have been a top class right back for years rather than the very good utility man tag he has now. Its his own thought process of wanting to see the ball a lot and thus wanting to play as a central midfielder thats hampered him I feel. His crossing ability, work ethic, the timing of his runs to the byline and the nous and game intelligence he posseses are second to none. If he was still at City under Guardiola he would definitely have a permeanant starting role at full back in my opinion.
Do you mean left back? I haven't seen him play right back at all but apologies if he has
Yeah he's played right back a few times filling in over the years, and I would assume being right footed if he had been converted to full back early in his career it would have likely been at RB.
I hope so. That only happens when we score !
Wijanldum's done his hamstring for the Dutch, thats him and potentially Lallana out of Mondays game, so much fluidity, ball retention skills and the ability to transition up the pitch lost. Shame we've looked excellent in midfield so far, but I would be weary just losing one of them losing both is a massive blow. I've gone from confident to fearful in a matter of minutes. Ffs
I've a feeling we could get at Emre Can in your midfield. He never seems the fittest lad even when he's playing regularly so hard to see him dominating Pogba, Herrera or even Fellaini. I have question marks about his mentality too, I think he could be a red card waiting to happen for you in a tense game like it'll be on Monday.
He hasnt played much football either, but its not that im concerned about its the fludity and comfort in possesion we've had thus far this season, a Can Hendo and Lallana/Couts/Grujic midfield just wouldnt be the same. Its a massive blow, make no mistake it would be fine if say it was a more like for like replacement in terms of attributes. I.e. Dahoud replacing Wijnaldum. But unfortunately thats not the case. Majorly worried for the game now.
In all fairness, every set of fans seem to have their own characteristics. A city fan will most likely be bitter about a perceived favoritism of united by refs and the media.
A united fan will be a muppet and will constantly believe the team should and will buy every star in the world. I know there are those already preparing for Griezman and Bale next season!! (We are fecking Muppets)
At Liverpool, most fans tend to have a very over the top appreciation of their players and managers talents. That’s why people often dismiss them as deluded. I mean, when Liverpool fans speak of Rafa, I am almost convinced it’s a different man from the guy at New castle right now.
I love Divock Origi since his father played for our national team for a long time, but he is not on martial’s level but I know many Liverpool fans who can’t see the difference in their quality. I think the same is happening now.
Klopp was very good in Germany and so far he is playing good football. But a title challenge with that defense? Even top four might be difficult this season for liverpool. Maybe he will get there after one or two season, but before that I can assure you we will have a thread like this every time Liverpool have a good run of games.
A united fan will be a muppet and will constantly believe the team should and will buy every star in the world. I know there are those already preparing for Griezman and Bale next season!! (We are fecking Muppets)
At Liverpool, most fans tend to have a very over the top appreciation of their players and managers talents. That’s why people often dismiss them as deluded. I mean, when Liverpool fans speak of Rafa, I am almost convinced it’s a different man from the guy at New castle right now.
I love Divock Origi since his father played for our national team for a long time, but he is not on martial’s level but I know many Liverpool fans who can’t see the difference in their quality. I think the same is happening now.
Klopp was very good in Germany and so far he is playing good football. But a title challenge with that defense? Even top four might be difficult this season for liverpool. Maybe he will get there after one or two season, but before that I can assure you we will have a thread like this every time Liverpool have a good run of games.
It happens when your manager is actually good enough. Not that Liverpool fans have experienced that for aeons.
Can't someone edit the thread title like the spurs thread to include "wummers/ derailers will be thread banned?"
Some daft shit on here.
Some daft shit on here.
Liverpool fans should be the last to mock changing managers or talk about supporting manager.
Exactly, as bad as some ManUtd fan's posts here, some of the posts from Liverpool fans are equally bad and I don't understand the urge of some Liverpool fans to reply to every single negative posts about Liverpool.
Agreed, not just one fan base. Banter is all good but it seems every post has a smart arse answer, it's a little tiring and not that original.
You're always going to get fans defending their team, that isn't odd, I just find Redcafe has a way of making two posters forget about their original disagreement and go off a tangent unrelated to the initial debate, that's what is annoying when you come into a thread about one thing and there's two posters arguing about something completely different now..
Agreed - you are always going to get Liverpool fans defending their team, that's part of the reason many post on here. Not necessarily to argue but to offer a different viewpoint or perspective - or replying to daft comments and opinions.
Agreed - you are always going to get Liverpool fans defending their team, that's part of the reason many post on here. Not necessarily to argue but to offer a different viewpoint or perspective - or replying to daft comments and opinions.
To be perfectly honest, from what I see in this thread it's usually United fans that looks more petty, which is a shame and I am sure many will disagree so perhaps my timing is unlucky but from what I've seen LP fans seem to try and respond with logic and a built argument and a united fan will comment saying "Anyone who doesn't agree is a rag right?", which I am sure was funny once upon a time but for me that's for the RAWK meltdown thread..
I know it's only October but I have to say I'm really impressed with how Henderson has improved under Klopp this season. I was really critical of Henderson but so far this season he's made me eat humble pie, good to see him get the England captaincy for tonight as well, I'm happy for him.
Some of the stuff is quite funny actually (unintentionally most of the time). Like having a United poster who's been on here a long time, who's probably one of the biggest anti-Liverpool bigots on the Caf, accusing a Liverpool fan of bigotry. For some of us it's like shooting fish in a barrel a lot of the time.
I do actually empathise to a degree, you should expect a bit of banter, I just think when you guys do it back I see several posting, quoting and spamming..
Anyway, Klopp; can he win you the title? Not this season I don't think, players will dip in form, injuries will set in and players will burn out due to the high intensity, he's done very well so far though.
Iam not mocking at all.
Wasn't the post Fergie plan all about longevity ?
Yes it was.
It was, that's the reason Moyes was offered 6 year deal. Luckily management learnt it's not feasible anymore and moved on.
We saw last season with Klopp, & the year he got Dortmund to the CL final, that his high intensity style of play can't cope with the demands of league & European games. I don't think we'll win the title this season, but not because of burn out, but because someone - probably City - will simply amass more points than us over the season. & then there's always the possibility that our good start to the season might just be that, a good start, & our form from here-on-in my be more reflective of the overall quality of our squad. I think our match next Monday will possibly be a good indicator as to where both sides are.
These international breaks seem to get longer & longer. Still, once Hendo () & the lads have bravely seen off Malta & Slovenia, one hopes that things can get back to normal.
Penalty-pool are already whingeing about the appointed ref favouring the away side. At Anfield,
.
) & the lads have bravely seen off Malta & Slovenia, one hopes that things can get back to normal.Penalty-pool are already whingeing about the appointed ref favouring the away side. At Anfield,
.