How was that 'very decent' in any way?
Had Brendan still been manager he'd have classed that performance as 'outstanding'. & he was never one to go OTT on his praise for Liverpool players.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Had Brendan still been manager he'd have classed that performance as 'outstanding'. & he was never one to go OTT on his praise for Liverpool players.
Nah I agree with him on that one, he's very average and error prone.
So Gotze rejects the scousers and us angling for a Spurs move? And people told me Klopp had amazing pulling power...
Is that surprising considering Spurs have finished above us every season (apart from 13/14) since 2010? They also have Champions League to offer and are clearly a better side than us at the moment.
Yes it is considering he's played for Klopp and you'd think he'd want to rejoin him. Liverpool are the bigger club.
It is surprising given how the Liverpool fans and United fans were getting giddy about his pull with good players. If he can't convince an ex player to join ahead of fecking Spurs then it's not looking too good as far as his pulling power goes.
Think you maybe forgetting Klopp doesn't rely on pulling power. He attracts young hungry players with potential and improves them rather than ready made players.
As regards gotze, I get the feeling he didn't fancy all the hard work he would need to put in under Klopp and let's face it he knows how hard it is. That and no cl football.
Will be a good signing for spurs though.
Looks like Zielinski to Liverpool is a no go as per the latest comments by Udinese Chief. I thought you guys were confident of bagging him.
Who else is in the radar?
I think we're a step down from Spurs as things stand. We've had one season of Champions League football in the last six seasons and have won one trophy (a Capitol One Cup) in ten years. London's a more attractive city to live in than Liverpool and Spurs are clearly a more developed side than we are. Klopp's achieved a bit more than Pochettino has so far but they're both at similar levels in terms of what they can offer to players in terms of management.
A manager's name isn't enough on it's own to get players to sign. I don't think Mourinho would attract big names if he were in charge at Liverpool for example. He can do it at United without Champions League football because he's got the added bonus of being able to offer big wages and the name of Manchester United still holds a lot of weight in football. If Klopp were in charge at United he'd have no problem convincing Gotze to come over and play in England in my opinion.
Yeah we've hesitated too much on that one. Dahoud has been linked but I think we'll have to go elsewhere for a midfielder as Gladbach don't want to sell after losing Xhaka to Arsenal. I don't want us relying on Henderson and Milner for another season so hopefully we sort something out.
You offered Gotze £175,000. Is that not a big wage?
Seems a lot of excuses coming out.
Look, if he doesn't want to sign, he doesn't want to sign. I think for this one, we did all we could. He probably fancies his chances elsewhere, which is rather disappointing in a way... may explain why his career has stalled.
Saw someone with a normal one t-shirt today. Embarrassing
I doubt it was that high, probably closer to £150k p/w. It's not excuses it's just the way things are.
Klopp's name on it's own isn't enough to convince big names to join a side that finished 8th and is a gamble on whether or not we'll go anywhere. The fact that Gotze's best football so far has come under Klopp would suggest that he'd benefit from playing under him again. Using that combined with the fact that he still doesn't want to join us suggests to me that he see's Liverpool for what we are at the minute, a mid table side trying to climb back up again. Basically we're a risk.
Just to be clear though I'mnot saying every player who's ever played under Klopp loved him. I'm sure there's plenty that didn't enjoy his style of management at all.
Apart from Mane from Southampton on a bloated price, Liverpool's signing have been very underwhelming so far.
I still think Götze will rejoin Dortmund, can't see him signing for Spurs if BVB is in. And Liverpool has only Klopp to offer for him, that's probably not enough considering that there is no international football and probably no CL for years to come if you look at the other teams and their squads/budgets.
The question is: Is Dortmund willing to pay him high wages especially if you consider his current form?
The question is: Is Dortmund willing to pay him high wages especially if you consider his current form?
I don't think an 8th July Friday night friendly tells us a lot does it? Markovic still hilariously shite, but moves up the pecking order if Ibe goes to Bournemouth,
Andthey're missing their England players are still away.
And
since when they signed Marta?
Really? So you're telling us if Klopp could sign Messi he'd rather opt for some 20-year old 'young hungry' player instead?
Off the top of my head,
Klopp re-signed Kagawa and Sahin
Klopp singed Ramos, Immobile
None of them are 'young hungry players' and there would definitely be more. Fact is, if he could, he would have loved to sign Gotze and hence the interest in the first place. If he didn't fancy Gotze, why would Liverpool show any interest in Gotze let alone offering him a contract only for him to reject it at the last minute?
Dortmund as a club is designed to sign 'young hungry' players and develop them regardless of whether Klopp or Tuchel is in charge. Hence Klopp's departure didn't stop them from signing Weigl, Dembele, Mor etc.
A lot of Liverpool fans are now trying to put a spin on things. When Klopp joined your club, your fans and others thought/claimed he's going to sign WC players that Rodgers couldn't. However, it's not as simple as it's expected. The reality is different. Just a manager these days isn't enough to attract big name players. If Jose/Pep/Ancelotti goes to West Brom tomorrow, it's not like big names players would start following them. Similarly one season in the CL isn't enough to attract big names, for instance Leicester City just can't go out and buy anyone they want. Wages, club's stature, club's recent success, club's overall squad strength are some factors that play a big part in attracting big name players.
Every manager wants to win trophies, Klopp is no different. Don't tell me Klopp believes the chances of winning trophies with Messi + Ronaldo + Neymar are lower than that of with some 20-year 'young hungry' players.
Don't know how much truth in it but I heard you're having trouble to sign Zielinski despite him wanting to join your club is because of Udinese's owners who also own Watford. They're asking more money from Liverpool but are happy to accept less from Napoli as they're apparently pissed off with you guys because of some issues involving one of your players who moved to Watford recently.
So the transfer has been confirmed then and it's not just internet rumours ?
This is clearly made-up bollocks. Yes there were many fans who believed he could sign good quality German players, which he has done in Karius (last season he was voted the 2nd best keeper in Germany by the German players themselves) and Matip, a very solid CB signing. But no-one (except possibly a few nutters which every club has) expected us to be signing world-class players, especially without any Euro football whatsoever. We do however hope that he can replicate his Dortmund / Mainz revolutions by signing and developing young players, which, given the typical player links this Summer, seems to be the direction he is taking. We don't have the money / salaries to be able to do what United / City and Chelsea are capable of in the transfer market and must by necessity take a different tack.
I wouldn't put any faith in it ! An U21 player, Sinclair, went there for £4m plus a buyback/sell-on clause. I hardly think that is going to influence anything, even if they overpaid - which they didn't.
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Only underwhelming if you expected we'll be signing world-class players for massive transfer fees. For the prices we can be expected to pay (under £40m) and with reasonable expectations (Klopp has only ever signed one established top player - Reus), those expectations being that Klopp will sign youngish (u25) promising players to develop, rather than established names in their prime, and try to develop a team capable of playing above it's parts, rather than relying on individual brilliance form world-class players.
Based on the transfer fees and demands so far this transfer season Mane's was far from a bloated price for a young highly promising and proven PL player.
Yep. Agree with this. Gotze doesn't seem that interested in the PL. Playing for BM and with the likelihood of BVB I don't see him moving to England. I reserve the right to be completely wrong of course !
Rewriting the history a bit now, you guys were saying Klopp would be able to attract the top-tier talent unlike Brendan when he was appointed
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/klopp-confirmed-liverpool-manager.409810/page-60#post-18255465redman5 said:
C'est Moi Cantona said:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/klopp-confirmed-liverpool-manager.409810/page-60#post-18256153Rafateria said:
Mane went missing for large spells last season. I was quite relieved we didn't sign him last summer even though I was originally keen on the idea considering the alternative was Mata on the right wing. I am curious to see how Mane adapts to playing under Klopp and if he's played behind the striker taking Firmino's place or shifted to the wing.
Wrong - as I stated for the reasons earlier. We'd never pay the transfer fees involved even if we could afford the salaries (and £150-180k isn't going to be a top salary this season or going forward). What I said is that FSG are not (in principle) against paying top salaries. Whether we can afford it is a totally different question.
I have no idea why you linked that thread !
Not scoring and going missing are two totally different things. He was still contributing assists and performances. That said there isn't a player on the planet that delivers week in week out.
It's immaterial as no top talent is looking to join Liverpool at the moment, even with the Klopp factor. And by top-talent i do not mean established superstars, even the young top talents like Ousmane Dembélé, Marc Bartra, Sebastian Rode, Emre Mor etc.
Mane was awful during the phases he mentioned ("missing spells"), he was not contributing at all as he was dropped to the bench by Koeman. Not sure how he was influencing the game from the bench.
A very hit and miss player.
Here is Mane's contribution in all S'ton games last season. You can see how he went missing for a large spell
You might want to revisit his stats from November 2015 > March 2016. 1 goal and 2 assists and Southampton lost most games he started during that period.
Baanke beat me to it with a visual graph but you can see some additional info here: http://www.espnfc.us/player/169797/sadio-mane
I'm curious to see if he was simply demotivated trying to carry Southampton and the lack of quality around him and how he'll perform for you next season with familiar (ex SOU) players. If he doesn't adapt quickly then I would be concerned.
Exaggeration or what. He started from the bench 5 times over the whole season and none consecutively. The two games he missed completely were for a Red card. Did he go through a spell where he didn't score/assist ? Yes, as most strikers do (even though Mane wasn't Saints' CF). What was Kane's, or Rooney's, for example ?
I don't like WhoScored ratings per se because they always seem either too low or too high, and don't differentiate enough between dominant teams and their inferior performing opposition, however they are useful in this instance. Note that anything in the high 6s is considered a good game or better by the WhoScored ratings. And if (for the two lowest scores he only played 16' and 11'), around 6.4-6.6 is as bad as it gets, whilst waiting for those good to great performances (in 16 of 36 PL matches he scored 6.95 and above), then the majority of fans would take that.
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/109915/Fixtures/Sadio-Man
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Ha. We are quoting the same link - however our interpretations are completely different. Either that's because you don't regularly follow WhoScored and know how they rate - or you're expecting match winning performances match after match.
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Which is pretty much what every Liverpool supporter on this forum has said. We won't be signing world-class players or even those highly-rated youngsters of which there are sky-high expectations. Klopp or no Klopp. Not sure you are disputing that with to be honest. Yourself ?
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As I have mentioned (since I was researching the same source) you might want to look in more depth at those stats. See my post above. I haven't seen anything to be concerned about in his performances for Southampton, every player, especially young players, go through periods when it just doesn't happen for them. The way he finished the season showed he hasn't lost anything.
Whoscored' ratings should favour a player like Mane as they score higher for attacking contributions, especially dribbling past players.
As a United fan i was afraid that Liverpool would be able to attract top/highly rated young talents from europe after the appointment of Jurgen Klopp. Maybe no cl/europa has become a factor. Liverpool are still traditionally a big club & should still be in top 10 clubs in terms of revenue after-all.
I was talking about in terms of goals and assists, notice the spell from Liecester game to Stoke game, he did not contribute much at all in terms of Goals and Assists. As a forward player, he should be contributing more in terms of output. He loved playing against Liverpool though
That's why we signed him ! Our goals against should at least be 3-4 less this season.I was talking about in terms of goals and assists, notice the spell from Liecester game to Stoke game, he did not contribute much at all in terms of Goals and Assists. As a forward player, he should be contributing more in terms of output. He loved playing against Liverpool though
From what I recall of Klopp's time at Dortmund he didn't sign that many 'world-class' players. He made quite a few though, & that's the important thing.
The problem with trying to sign established, quality players, is that there are now too many clubs who have mega-bucks to throw at them. So not only are we not in the same ball park financially as the likes of City, Chelsea, United, Real Madrid, Barca, PSG, & Bayern Munich, but our stock has fallen quite considerably over recent years. Therefore, simply having a big name manager is not going to have them flocking to the gates of Anfield begging to be signed up. The club needs to show significant signs of progression before we can even consider looking at players who'll more than likely end up at one of those aforementioned clubs.
As we've seen with Manchester United though, simply throwing money at the problem isn't really the answer. You need to have the right man in charge first, & that's where we're hoping we've got it right with Klopp. Because if he does turn out to be the manager we want him to be, then it'll be irrelevant who he does, & doesn't, sign, because the team he sends out will be more than a match for anyone.
The problem with trying to sign established, quality players, is that there are now too many clubs who have mega-bucks to throw at them. So not only are we not in the same ball park financially as the likes of City, Chelsea, United, Real Madrid, Barca, PSG, & Bayern Munich, but our stock has fallen quite considerably over recent years. Therefore, simply having a big name manager is not going to have them flocking to the gates of Anfield begging to be signed up. The club needs to show significant signs of progression before we can even consider looking at players who'll more than likely end up at one of those aforementioned clubs.
As we've seen with Manchester United though, simply throwing money at the problem isn't really the answer. You need to have the right man in charge first, & that's where we're hoping we've got it right with Klopp. Because if he does turn out to be the manager we want him to be, then it'll be irrelevant who he does, & doesn't, sign, because the team he sends out will be more than a match for anyone.