Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

Let me ask a few questions to any Liverpool fans here. I am not on a WUM either, these are question that nag at me sometime.

1. Last season I felt a deep sense of despair whenever I watched united and saw Rooney with that captain’s band. But with Rooney I at least understand that he used to be very good, how does it feel to know that Henderson is your Captain?

2. Do your fans really believe that Sakho is a world class defender? Or is it like TFM and Rashford in United where we believe they have the potential to be world class? Reading about Sakho on Rawk, you get the impression that to Liverpool fans he is better than Ramos and Bonucci put together?


3. Do you think Klopp is capable of failure? And what would be failure for Klopp?
 
Galactic said:
6 months off-form and you're out? Don't you think that's a bit unfair. He's still a young player to be fair to him. Anyway, my gut feeling is that he has an attitude problem (like Januzaj). Demands first team every game?
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The amount of match time given to him by Klopp is telling (roughly, I forget the exact numbers, 1300 mins in the first half of last season and 550 in the second). It's been rumoured he doesn't give enough in training either and that doesn't enamour him to the coaching staff.
I was one of those who saw a lot of potential in this lad, no-one said he was better than Sterling but he had the potential to be since he is stronger, faster, technically very good and doesn't have a powder-puff shot ! Unfortunately he also doesn't seem to have enough between the ears and his development has stagnated. If we can get £15m with a buy-back clause I'd be delighted at this stage.

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Liverpool FC negotiate buy-back and sell-on clauses in Jordon Ibe deal. #lfc (James Pearce)
 
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The BlackGaijin said:
Let me ask a few questions to any Liverpool fans here. I am not on a WUM either, these are question that nag at me sometime.

1. Last season I felt a deep sense of despair whenever I watched united and saw Rooney with that captain’s band. But with Rooney I at least understand that he used to be very good, how does it feel to know that Henderson is your Captain?

2. Do your fans really believe that Sakho is a world class defender? Or is it like TFM and Rashford in United where we believe they have the potential to be world class? Reading about Sakho on Rawk, you get the impression that to Liverpool fans he is better than Ramos and Bonucci put together?


3. Do you think Klopp is capable of failure? And what would be failure for Klopp?
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  1. Henderson missed a lot of matches last season, and unlike Rooney, didn't have a team built around him, or have him shoehorned into places he doesn't belong. While I think he's not as good as he could've been, he wasn't as much at fault for losing points - our team as a whole were responsible for that.
  2. I think Sakho is very good, but still needs to improve. Not world-class though. Don't think he's better than Ramos or Bonucci! He definitely makes more mistakes than either. I don't view him like Rashford - he's at a more senior level (he's 26!) so I do expect more out of him.
  3. Sure. Finishing below teams that we're supposed to clear would be failure. So, below 6th?
 
The BlackGaijin said:
Let me ask a few questions to any Liverpool fans here. I am not on a WUM either, these are question that nag at me sometime.

1. Last season I felt a deep sense of despair whenever I watched united and saw Rooney with that captain’s band. But with Rooney I at least understand that he used to be very good, how does it feel to know that Henderson is your Captain?

2. Do your fans really believe that Sakho is a world class defender? Or is it like TFM and Rashford in United where we believe they have the potential to be world class? Reading about Sakho on Rawk, you get the impression that to Liverpool fans he is better than Ramos and Bonucci put together?

3. Do you think Klopp is capable of failure? And what would be failure for Klopp?
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1. Henderson WAS a very good player but since his injuries he seems to have fallen off the edge of a cliff. I doubt he'll ever reach the potential he showed, or even get back to the standard he was at. Rumours that a new captain may be chosen for this season (Matip would be my choice, or Milner but Matip should be an ever-present and I believe is more vocal than Milner).

2. Opinion is split (RAWK is a caricature of a fan forum and should never be used as a barometer of Liverpool fan opinion - they ban people who have anything bad to say about their favourite players) ! I like Sakho, he can be brilliant one day and frustratingly inconsistent the next. His Bambi on Ice displays often lead to negative views though. Huge potential IMHO but needs careful coaching.

3. Any manager can be capable of failure. Look at Mourinho for example. It's far too early to talk about that though. Last season he took us to two finals with what was Rodgers' squad (and a slight improvement in the PL in terms of points per game, even though fielding virtual shadow teams in some of the season-ending matches). It will be interesting to see how he does this coming season with his own players and with the competition having made massive improvements of their own at both management and player level. I will be disappointed if he doesn't get us to 70-75 pts and let's see where that gets us.
 
The BlackGaijin said:
Let me ask a few questions to any Liverpool fans here. I am not on a WUM either, these are question that nag at me sometime.

1. Last season I felt a deep sense of despair whenever I watched united and saw Rooney with that captain’s band. But with Rooney I at least understand that he used to be very good, how does it feel to know that Henderson is your Captain?
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It is basically a symptom of the Rodgers' era where, despite his constant protestations to the contrary, we ened up as a team with no character whatsoever.

I don't think it matters much now.

2. Do your fans really believe that Sakho is a world class defender? Or is it like TFM and Rashford in United where we believe they have the potential to be world class? Reading about Sakho on Rawk, you get the impression that to Liverpool fans he is better than Ramos and Bonucci put together?
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Sakho is basically bipolar. He can have games where he is a great defender, where he not only does his own job, but also covers ground for others and pulls off interventions he has no right to. Then go totally potty.

He's a great lad though and for a short while under Klopp he really was in amazing non-pi-polar form. I think he will start as 3rd choice as Lovren has been far more stable and wait for his chance. If he gets his act together, he'll be 1st choice. He is one of those who could rise another level with a sprinkle of Klopp faerie dust.

3. Do you think Klopp is capable of failure? And what would be failure for Klopp?
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We've already seen he is with Dortmund. There are degrees of it though.

I think failure would be failure to even mount a challenge for top 4 this season without an FA Cup to sweeten the blow.

I am under no illusion that there are 6-7 really good teams all good enough to finish top 4 this season most of them with really good managers. They can't all deliver, by definition.

So we will likely finish somewhere between 1st and 6th. The most important part for me is that we give it a good go moreso than final position.
 
Portuguese newspaper O JOGO talks about a 25M€ move from Anderson Talisca to Liverpool. Supposedly the work visa process was started. He is an attacking midfielder with some talent, goalscorer. Problem is he sometimes pulls a Mata and disappears from the games.
 
TJSF said:
Portuguese newspaper O JOGO talks about a 25M€ move from Anderson Talisca to Liverpool. Supposedly the work visa process was started. He is an attacking midfielder with some talent, goalscorer. Problem is he sometimes pulls a Mata and disappears from the games.
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6'3 - he fits the profile.
 
baanke laal said:
Yes, but that's a big if considering his injury record. Also, he seemed a bit disinterested and looked to be half-arsing it during games when things not seem to go his way. Looks like he has developed a big ego being considered the star man now.
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Well, he's been fit for 6 months now, which suggests that something has changed.
 
Clever from liverpool to extend his contract, it allows him to plan long term more comfortably i think.

It's still a very difficult competition and i don't know what are their expectations from him. If he fails to make top 4 would that be considered a failure?
 
Coup for Liverpool. Still can't believe how they landed him. To think he'd probably be at PSG if he just waited out the year.
 
We know all too well what happens when you give a manager a 6 year contract :nervous: :(
 
he is the perfect fit for them. totally overrated because of 2 good seasons with dortmund. i think he is good but not anywhere near worldclass.
 
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Someone said:
Clever from liverpool to extend his contract, it allows him to plan long term more comfortably i think.

It's still a very difficult competition and i don't know what are their expectations from him. If he fails to make top 4 would that be considered a failure?
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I dont think Pool would have top 4 as an immediate target after how they have been in past years. Visible improvement will be key though.
 
Seems an odd decision to me. He hasnt even been at Liverpool for a year. Hes a good manager with good ideas but hes working from a low base and a lack of financial clout. It seems FSG are playing a 1 in 1 out strategy at the moment.
 
Reddevildans said:
........ It seems FSG are playing a 1 in 1 out strategy at the moment.
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I have no idea what on earth that is supposed to mean. Liverpool have to divest themselves of a number of players since a 30 man squad isn't required (hence why certainly 10+ will leave) when there isn't any Euro football. And naturally Klopp is having his say over who arrives. I'd go as far as to say it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with FSG per se !
 
The BlackGaijin said:
Let me ask a few questions to any Liverpool fans here. I am not on a WUM either, these are question that nag at me sometime.

1. Last season I felt a deep sense of despair whenever I watched united and saw Rooney with that captain’s band. But with Rooney I at least understand that he used to be very good, how does it feel to know that Henderson is your Captain?

2. Do your fans really believe that Sakho is a world class defender? Or is it like TFM and Rashford in United where we believe they have the potential to be world class? Reading about Sakho on Rawk, you get the impression that to Liverpool fans he is better than Ramos and Bonucci put together?


3. Do you think Klopp is capable of failure? And what would be failure for Klopp?
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1. (Thankfully) Henderson was injured for a large part of the season so we didn't have to endure him as much as you did Rooney. Being captain is meaningless, Suarez was never captain for us.

2. I think Sakho is a mid level defender, i.e. Koscielny level. Can't head well enough and lacks pace to be as good as a Smalling or Boateng.

3. Klopp is capable of failure as he has shown at Dortmund. Which manager isn't? Failure for Klopp with us would be the same as Dortmund, i.e. not finishing top 4. Will we sack him if he doesn't next season? Probably not if he continues to show progress with youth/purchases and points tallies.
 
Dumbstar said:
1. (Thankfully) Henderson was injured for a large part of the season so we didn't have to endure him as much as you did Rooney. Being captain is meaningless, Suarez was never captain for us.

2. I think Sakho is a mid level defender, i.e. Koscienly level. Can't head well enough and lacks pace to be as good as a Smalling or Boateng.

3. Klopp is capable of failure as he has shown at Dortmund. Which manager isn't? Failure for Klopp with us would be the same as Dortmund, i.e. not finishing top 4. Will we sack him if he doesn't next season? Probably not if he continues to show progress with youth/purchases and points tallies.
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Koscienly is probably the best CB in the Prem at the minute, which says more about the state of CB's currently rather than his talent, but he's still more than a mid level defender.
 
Weird to give a manager such a lengthy contract especially one that hasn't achieved much.
 
It doesn't matter how many years they give Klopp, whilst FSG are owners of Liverpool the manager's job is a poisoned chalice. No manager can work miracles with the likes of Milner and Henderson.

Whilst FSG employ the 'moneyball' tactic, Liverpool will always be a 5th-8th place team. They might go on the odd cup run and win a Carling Cup but they're a million miles way from where they used to be or where their deluded fanbase demand them to be.
 
Varun said:
Weird to give a manager such a lengthy contract especially one that hasn't achieved much.
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it reminded me of rumours LVG was supposedly extending his contract with us, when the first season ended with things supposedly positive. How times change quickly nowadays, you just don't expect managers to last 6 years at big clubs now by default
 
Tony Evans had a proper rant about this on TalkSport just now.
Not judging Klopp based on working with Rodgers squad works both ways, not just an excuse for failure.
This time next year would have been the perfect time to offer Klopp an extension, with Everton on the up and the premiership becoming stupidly.competitive, Klopp could be under pressure by Christmas if they get off to a slow start and where would the club be then? Look at Rodgers post Suarez to see how it turns.
He spoke a lot of sense imo
 
Rafateria said:
Which just means you have never actually watched him play. He's far better - unfortunately however he spends more time injured than Sturridge !
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Since we have discussed about it yesterday, Neven Subotic is in talks with Middlesbrough over transfer from Borussia Dortmund

Dortmund have given the Serbia international permission to travel to Teesside, and he was shown around the club's facilities on Thursday.

Subotic would cost Middlesbrough in the region of £8m.
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http://www.skysports.com/football/n...esbrough-over-transfer-from-borussia-dortmund

Looks like he is not joining the Klopp revolution at Merseyside.
 
Akshay said:
I'd say it's pretty difficult to judge. He achieved incredible things at Dortmund and he's never managed a team with the ability to acquire the best players like those three have.
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Exactly, which is why saying ''Jesus'' to a post that was merely claiming he isn't world class is far fetched. Klopp has still a lot to prove compared to the top tier mangers mentioned that have managed teams like Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Inter (who Jose worked wonders with) and Chelsea. They are now individually managing United, City and Bayern as of this moment. If Klopp had of waited longer, maybe he could have ended up managing one of those clubs. Instead he's gone to a club with similar ambitions and level of attraction to his previous club.
 
cyberman said:
Tony Evans had a proper rant about this on TalkSport just now.
Not judging Klopp based on working with Rodgers squad works both ways, not just an excuse for failure.
This time next year would have been the perfect time to offer Klopp an extension, with Everton on the up and the premiership becoming stupidly.competitive, Klopp could be under pressure by Christmas if they get off to a slow start and where would the club be then? Look at Rodgers post Suarez to see how it turns.
He spoke a lot of sense imo
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Haven't heard it, but if Tony Evans is saying it, it's probably wrong. He's a proper moron.
 
Shark said:
Exactly, which is why saying ''Jesus'' to a post that was merely claiming he isn't world class is far fetched. Klopp has still a lot to prove compared to the top tier mangers mentioned that have managed teams like Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Inter (who Jose worked wonders with) and Chelsea. They are now individually managing United, City and Bayern as of this moment. If Klopp had of waited longer, maybe he could have ended up managing one of those clubs. Instead he's gone to a club with similar ambitions and level of attraction to his previous club.
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Yeah, fair enough, hadn't entirely followed the discussion up to that point. I think Klopp waited too long actually. I suspect we were interested in him replacing Sir Alex. He had to leave Dortmund when he did, but Liverpool might be a bit of a poisoned chalice. Has any manager come out of there with their reputation intact? Rafa's probably done the best of their ex-managers, but even he took a hit after the credit he gained with Valencia.
 
ti vu said:
:lol:
How did Mane play?
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Very decent debut. Created three chances for Firmino who missed them all ... losing some of that fat accrued from Brazil would help. Mane missed a 1:1 which he should have put away. pace to burn.

 
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Needs to change his hairdresser.

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Rafateria said:
Very decent debut. Created three chances for Firmino who missed them all ... losing some of that fat accrued from Brazil would help. Mane missed a 1:1 which he should have put away. pace to burn.

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How was that 'very decent' in any way? :wenger:
 
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