Our spending will be pretty significant this window I think. We dont have the finances to spend 200mill every summer. But the past couple years have given us the opportunity to go on a splurge like that for just this window.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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So much negative conjecture (surely nothing to do with being a United fan) and one has to wonder why when Klopp has had a damn good record with his 1st team signings so far (Matip, Wijnaldum, Mane, Karius the only dubious 1st team signing). Generally (with a few exceptions we all have) the majority of average players play for the likes of WBA, West Ham and Everton .. not the top 6. So if signing 7 players it's highly unlikely more than say 2 would turn out as duds/average.
Exactly right, but I've seen plenty of posts now that suggested we've somehow failed in the transfer market under Klopp, it's ridiculous
Mane and Wijnaldum are both key players, Matip was free, and is our best defender, meanwhile at the backups dept., Klavan was 1/4 of Lovren's fee and is coincidentally also 4 times less likely to make a costly defensive error, and Karius wasn't half as bad as people suggest, plus he's young, was half of what we paid for Minge, and is most definitely willing to learn and improve.
All in all that was the best transfer window we've had since January 2013.
Bottom line is, people talk nonsense
Ffs why dont Liverpool just buy Southampton?
You Liverpool guys realize that VVD will be a £50m CB, right?
Considering rumour has it you are willing to spend £100m this summer that is an awful lot for one defender.
Considering rumour has it you are willing to spend £100m this summer that is an awful lot for one defender.
This screams like a typical FSG transfer leak and I would be shocked if Liverpool spent 50 million on VVD. In a months time your club will leak out that is isn't interested in Van Dijk anymore after some lengthy 'monitoring' and you will sign Harry Maguire.
They won't get Van Dijk. He has his pick of the top Premier League clubs.
Werner, Keita and Chamberlain all look like possibilities though.
Doubt that they will get Keita, RB Leipzig in no shape or form needs money, so they will demand a big fee.
Besides he is good enough for other and more tempting clubs to come in for him. One of the brightest b2b talents around.
Depends on what "pretty significant" is in liverpool's context. £100m? That's the price of one elite player these days, or 2 high calibre players. If liverpool really want to get back to where they think they belong (up there with the likes of Real, Barca etc.), then they need 5-7 of such players. They're going to have to up the spending if they have any real ambition. Look at AC MIlan, now spending big to land the players everyone's chasing. Can liverpool do that? And we havent even touched on salaries yet.
Exactly right, but I've seen plenty of posts now that suggested we've somehow failed in the transfer market under Klopp, it's ridiculous
Mane and Wijnaldum are both key players, Matip was free, and is our best defender, meanwhile at the backups dept., Klavan was 1/4 of Lovren's fee and is coincidentally also 4 times less likely to make a costly defensive error, and Karius wasn't half as bad as people suggest, plus he's young, was half of what we paid for Minge, and is most definitely willing to learn and improve.
All in all that was the best transfer window we've had since January 2013.
Bottom line is, people talk nonsense
Whilst I agree with the majority of yours and @Rafateria 's transfer summaries, I think (and quite understandbly) Liverpool fans overstate the quality of Mane, Matip and Wijnaldum. They've been good, but Wijnaldum in particular hasn't exactly pulled up too many trees. I think a few of you have got a bit carried away with them being an improvement on what you had before, and elevated them to something they aren't, at least not yet.
As for Rafateria's statement about 2 of 7 signings at most being average or a flop for a top 6 club, of the 24 signings you've made since Summer 2014, a good number of them easily fall under 'average' or 'flop':
Manquillo, Lambert, Markovic, Moreno, Balotelli, Ings, Bogdan, Benteke, Caulker, Klavan, and Manninger all fall under that category easily. That's at least 11 that you'd class as average or a flop, almost 50% of the players you've signed in the last 3 seasons. That list also doesn't include those that the jury is out on, like Karius, Gomez, Grujic, Can or
To balance it out, in the same period United have signed 20 players, of which I'd say Di Maria, Valdes, El-Fitouri, Falcao, Depay, Schweinsteiger, and Schneiderlin fall under flops or average, that's 7 of 20, with the jury still being out on Shaw, Darmian, Fosu-Mensah and Poole. If you'd have asked me a month ago Romero would have been in the average list too, and probably fits 'average' about as well as anyone.
I think once a club signs more than 1 or 2 players in a window that aren't necessarily supposed to be first teamers, it's inevitable that a good chunk of them end up being average stop-gaps, squad players, or outright flops. If you're signing 7 or 8 players, there's a good chance 3 or 4 of them aren't going to be up to scratch.
I thought we'd said salaries are pretty good at LFC thse days. Although still likely to get outbid for the toppest of top top players I suppose - by Utd, Chelsea, City - if shove comes to push.
Is Studge re-integrated now? Cos if he is & Ings gets back & you want Woodburn getting games, it's getting a bit busy up in the front positions.
LB, CB, 2 x MF, another Mane to buy
TAA, Grujic come in. Only Lucas clogs his way out possibly. Especially, if like me, you think the loyalty & non complaining-ness of Alberto Moreno deserves a generous amount of minutes next time around.
Is Studge re-integrated now? Cos if he is & Ings gets back & you want Woodburn getting games, it's getting a bit busy up in the front positions.
LB, CB, 2 x MF, another Mane to buy
TAA, Grujic come in. Only Lucas clogs his way out possibly. Especially, if like me, you think the loyalty & non complaining-ness of Alberto Moreno deserves a generous amount of minutes next time around.
I'm getting confused here now.
If Liverpool have a giant 200 million splurge and win the league cup next season, will the self-righteous section of their fan base, who harp on about net spend, be happy or sad?
Will they also finally answer the question of why, if spending is so important, in 20 odd years they failed to win the league having spent around 400 million more in this time than Leicester who did win the league?
And yes I'm trying to get a reaction with this post
If Liverpool have a giant 200 million splurge and win the league cup next season, will the self-righteous section of their fan base, who harp on about net spend, be happy or sad?
Will they also finally answer the question of why, if spending is so important, in 20 odd years they failed to win the league having spent around 400 million more in this time than Leicester who did win the league?
And yes I'm trying to get a reaction with this post
Ignorant post. You can easily cover your protein needs without meat. Besides, most vegetarians don't have a problem consuming eggs and dairy products. Being a vegetarian doesn't make you a psychically weak person. Managers these days should know a thing or two about nutrition so I highly doubt that was the point he was trying to make.
This is probably what he meant.
The league cup will instantly become English football's most coveted prize again and the 200m will have been "shrewd" business.I'm getting confused here now.
If Liverpool have a giant 200 million splurge and win the league cup next season, will the self-righteous section of their fan base, who harp on about net spend, be happy or sad?
Will they also finally answer the question of why, if spending is so important, in 20 odd years they failed to win the league having spent around 400 million more in this time than Leicester who did win the league?
And yes I'm trying to get a reaction with this post
Meanwhile they will laugh at us if we win the league insisting it's a false dawn and we are in fact the worst United ever and next seasons relegation fodder.
Plus they had to play against the wind all season and still won a cup whereas United had David Gill seduce Mother Nature so we could play hoofball ok
the scousers would tear off the arm to have the season we had winning two trophies and getting straight into the CL group.
Only Chelsea can say they had a better season.
Only Chelsea can say they had a better season.
Ah now Madrid and Juventus could say so too in fairness
2015: Steven Gerrard: I would have won far more if Brendan Rodgers had been here since 2004
Liverpool captain wishes Rodgers had taken over as manager in midfielder's prime
2017: Gerrard: "I was looking around & it was a strange feeling. I was thinking if Klopp had been at the club a bit earlier what might have been."
How deluded is it actually possible to become?
Liverpool captain wishes Rodgers had taken over as manager in midfielder's prime
2017: Gerrard: "I was looking around & it was a strange feeling. I was thinking if Klopp had been at the club a bit earlier what might have been."
How deluded is it actually possible to become?was talking about English teams of course.
Don't drink the water in Liverpool.2015: Steven Gerrard: I would have won far more if Brendan Rodgers had been here since 2004
Liverpool captain wishes Rodgers had taken over as manager in midfielder's prime
2017: Gerrard: "I was looking around & it was a strange feeling. I was thinking if Klopp had been at the club a bit earlier what might have been."
was talking achievments this season.
but hey..whatever makes you happy
I see. In that case the list is not wrong but Arsenal could move into third.
I'd probably rather see Utd competing for the Title than winning one or more of the 'tinpot' Cups. Even if they failed to win it, that is.
Cups being won is better than pootling along into 3rd or 4th but not really competing for 1st & not progressing in the Cups either.
Cups being won is better than pootling along into 3rd or 4th but not really competing for 1st & not progressing in the Cups either.
Qualifying for the CL would be a greater achievment. Ask any gooner.
EDIT: If we had lost the Cup Final, it would have been a double whammy.
Winning a significant trophy we had never won and getting into the group stages straight was a huge achievement.
Bollocks to the technicality of 'qualifying' for the dullness of the fiddle-tastically drawn Euro Groups, let's see the competing for the silverware to be waving about. Even if it is the League Cup, .
The League Cup probably does need to be put out of it's misery, innit? Waste of time massively for the Prem clubs & the Championship play too many League games to bothered either.
.The League Cup probably does need to be put out of it's misery, innit? Waste of time massively for the Prem clubs & the Championship play too many League games to bothered either.
The League Cup adds more matches to a already crowded fixture list. That is what I have against it. But to win it is still a significant achievement.
Tbf, what else is he expected to say? As a player and a coach, he's getting right behind his manager and saying positive things.2015: Steven Gerrard: I would have won far more if Brendan Rodgers had been here since 2004
Liverpool captain wishes Rodgers had taken over as manager in midfielder's prime
2017: Gerrard: "I was looking around & it was a strange feeling. I was thinking if Klopp had been at the club a bit earlier what might have been."
Not too much wrong with that.
Having said that, I still think Gerrard is a cock, though.
What? Where your 2nd XI may or may not proceed to the semi final by beating other teams taking the competition equally un-seriously - at which point Managers suddenly realise that you get a Final & trophy out of it, maybe a bit of confidence & secure that all important Europa qualification.
It's reserve team olde pony until there's only 4 teams left usually. At which point we all wake up & change our view a little bit, innit? (I did watching the Final, anyway)
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Fergie used to ignore the League Cup until he realised he could win it. So you are right.
There is nothing wrong with that. Priorities.
But to win it is an achievement. what the scousers did with the 'Plastic Treble' banter aside was a very significant achievement. Evans was their manager then I think. Cant remember what their League position was that season.
Talking of priorities, for me The League Title takes precedence over the the CL Trophy. Always.
Some of my mates disagree. Some even were unhappy about how we put all our eggs in the Europa Cup basket.
That Treble season still makes me shake my head thinking of the matches we played and won. Right till the end it looked like we blew it. Followed closely by the Title/ CL win season.
We have finally the best manager out there by a mile. But even for him, to actually do the Teble would be a near impossible feat.
Liverpool has a long-standing culture of rotation players being flops ever since I started watching the game. Starting from the Roy Evans era, Liverpool had players like Veggard Heggem, Frode Kippe, Bruno Cheyrou, Anthony Le Tallac, Antonio Nunez, Paul Koncheskey, Christian Poulsen and the list goes on. It just seems like there is this curse at the club that you know that Liverpool signs a rotation or stop-gap player, he is likely to end up on this list of players.
United and Arsenal have flops too, but the proportion is much smaller than Liverpool's and many of them actually ended up being good squad rotation players. United is still keeping Ashley Young and Romero, while Arsenal is rotating Gabriel Paulista and Kieran Gibbs in and out of the squad and they are all decent when they come in.
I am not sure if the problem lies with the scouting ineptitude of their past managers and scouts, or if they do not man-manage their rotation players as well as how Fergie and Wenger do.
I can't argue with two trophies. It's very good. Trophies are important.
The obvious caveat with United is their league standing. Following a recent history of winning it or coming second there becomes an expectation and a standard.
There's no arguing with two cups; theirs no arguing with 6th.
2015: Steven Gerrard: I would have won far more if Brendan Rodgers had been here since 2004
Liverpool captain wishes Rodgers had taken over as manager in midfielder's prime
2017: Gerrard: "I was looking around & it was a strange feeling. I was thinking if Klopp had been at the club a bit earlier what might have been."
What do you expect him to say: Eh that Klopp is a bit shite. If I was a big player, I´d never sign here.
Jesus. Gerrard works for Liverpool. It´s literally part of his job to create interest for new players.
Personally I don't think we'll get him anyway. Likely off to Chelsea, City or United. However our strongly rumoured budget is £120m NET. I doubt anyone knows for sure but Klopp has insisted we have the budget for all his targets so if VVD is a target then the cost can be met.
There's a lot of common sense in this post however I doubt an average player would improve any of the Top 6 clubs' first team incumbents (talking of 1st team though, I do realise that it's a squad game even more nowadays and that probably teams need a 'hard core'' of maybe 15 players that are considered as walk-in 1st team standard). Therefore I don't see the point of me revisiting and giving a run-down and precis of each of the players signed over the past few seasons - and there have been some real duds from both clubs - so I am only focused on Klopp's business since he is the one making the decisions now.
Manninger has retired BTW but was only ever here as the #3 keeper whilst Ward was away at Huddersfield on loan so it's hardly worth labeling him at all. Ditto Klavan bought as #4 CB but moved up to #3 after the Sakho incidents. Grujic has obviously been seriously injured virtually since his arrival so again no valuation can be made (I did like the look of him in pre-season - he played great vs Barca I seem to remember - though he's still very young of course) and Can has actually matured a lot this season, I don't see him as a starter but for what he was bought for, and with his potential, a very good squad player to have. So that brings us back to the 4 players signed as first teamers and, IMHO, three have improved the first team and that is really what you want of any player you sign - that they improve the team as a whole.
Obviously none of the Top 6 will be signing 7-8 players with the idea of them making the starting lineup on a regular basis. For Liverpool I'd say we need 4 and that they could quite comfortably improve on the current incumbents (LB, LCB, CM - Henderson's injuries mean he is about done IMO and Can isn't a regular starter at his current, inconsistent, self. And a striker). Funnily enough I think United need pretty much the same (LB, LCB, CM, Striker) ! Liverpool's targets for those positions seem to be : Sessegnon, VVD, Naby Keita & 'take your pick' though Dolberg seems to have links (also to Spurs though).
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I think that both sets of fans can be happy with how the season panned out. No one on here gave Liverpool a hope of finishing top 4 this year even without European football so saying that the lack of said European nights are the only reason that we managed to get top 4 is a bit rich.
Man Utd were a shoe in for top 3 according to the Caf but clearly that didn't happen so league wise, Liverpool had a far better season based on final positions and expected positions.
That said, it's quite obvious that Utd have had a better season. Trophies mean everything in this game and I'm not going to slaughter you for going all out in the Europa League when we did the same last year to get the same prize as a top 4 finish.
Both teams will strengthen in the summer, how much remains to be seen but I believe that both teams will show massive improvement next season.
Early aims for Liverpool are to consolidate a top 4 position again and have a decent cup run. Pretty much the same as this year but with the added games, if we achieve the same again, I'll be quite happy.
Man Utd were a shoe in for top 3 according to the Caf but clearly that didn't happen so league wise, Liverpool had a far better season based on final positions and expected positions.
That said, it's quite obvious that Utd have had a better season. Trophies mean everything in this game and I'm not going to slaughter you for going all out in the Europa League when we did the same last year to get the same prize as a top 4 finish.
Both teams will strengthen in the summer, how much remains to be seen but I believe that both teams will show massive improvement next season.
Early aims for Liverpool are to consolidate a top 4 position again and have a decent cup run. Pretty much the same as this year but with the added games, if we achieve the same again, I'll be quite happy.
This is one of the most appalling posts I've ever read on this thread.
It's entirely sensible and covers nearly every point in a calm & reasonable way,
. What are we supposed to do now?Don't disagree with any of that really.
I think United need to make a decision RE: Shaw. I'd rather we got rid if he's not going to be our first choice. I'd rather he stayed, personally. My picks for our summer business are a CB, CM and an attacker of some sort. Don't really care if it's out wide or central. Obviously a GK if the De Gea > Madrid rumours are true and a LB if we aren't sticking with Shaw.
I think Liverpool need a GK, a CB, a LB, a CM and a Striker, although if I were to order those by priority it'd probably go CB, LB, ST, CM, GK. Think Sturridge is nothing more than an expensive back-up for you at this point.
Can't see you landing VVD or Keita though.
Sorry about that, I'll take my calm, reasonable posting elsewhereThis is one of the most appalling posts I've ever read on this thread.
It's entirely sensible and covers nearly every point in a calm & reasonable way,