U wot m8
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
We have nowhere near the weakest team. We have a weak squad but a fully fit first 11 is more than a match for any of those teams in the top seven as proven this season just finished, and I don't buy into all this "he had them punching well above their weight. You can't make a player do what he is not capable of but a great coach/manager can get players playing at the top of their abilities if the player buys in to the philosophy.
As I also said last night, congratulations on the win last night. I just hope that we now do our bit in the qualifying round and England have five teams in the champions league next season.
Klopp and the dippers can keep their 4th place trophy. We'll stick to winning actual trophies.
Well said. It's been a while for Liverpool tbf. The idea of a 'final' has likely become an abstract concept for 'em.Be honest though, when top of the table and winning every game by three or four in the first half of the season, you didn't expect the massive downturn in the new year? I know I didn't. With no Europe I had you pegged for 2nd minimum based upon the start you had.
I honestly think you have missed a chance, possibly the only one you will get for many years, to genuinely challenge for the title. Spurs, City (not by that much admittedly) and Chelsea are already superior to Liverpool and City and Chelsea will be buying real big in the summer to ensure they stay that way.
United have salvaged something from a very odd season granted, but Jose made four very good buys last summer and I suspect will make 4 or 5 very good buys this summer. No guarantees of course, but I'd be very surprised if United aren't at least 12-15 points better off next season in the league.
If Klopp keeps you top 4 up against all that, then I'll genuinely take my hat off to him.
Although I kind of agree with a lot of what you say, the far superior teams did not manage to show that when they played us home or away and as you said they will spend big this summer but I am pretty sure we will be spending a lot this summer as well, if reports are to be believed it will be a record breaking one for us but we will have to wait and see if that does happen.
As for where we finished yes and no really. When we were flying and thumping teams pre Christmas and sitting top yes it was hard not to get exited about where we might end up. I don't think any sensible fan thought we would win it but did think we would finish higher than we did maybe but losing key players like Mane (Africa cup of nations and injury) Coutinho and Henderson at an important time totally derailed us and only proved just how weak our squad is. However I think by the end of the season we are happy we have achieved our goal and finished in the top four. I also believe we will be competing just as well if not better next season if summer business is done right
What an odd post. Finals are always the last game, and given our season hinged on it, of course it should swing the vote.
By your logic, your season would have been an unmitigated disaster had you dropped points against Boro, as you might well have done had they rightfully been given a penalty. This was your last game.
It's been a long time since they've actually won anything, so winning in finals is an alien concept to them.
Fair enough, although I didn't say the sides were far superior to Liverpool. The problem with being great against the top sides is that it doesn't win you the league. You can lose/draw most of your games against the other 5 or the top 6 and still win the league by a fair margin by beating the rest home and away.
As much as Liverpool may spend I just don't see it being enough to keep you in the top four while playing those high pressure midweek CL games. Most top sides with deeper squads tend to get their poorest results faced with say Stoke away at midday on Saturday after being away in Italy on the Wednesday night. I'd expect a similarly explosive start to the season that tails off horribly around or just after Christmas.
I'll also say again what I've said many times on here, no team with a Can / Henderson midfield pairing will ever win the premier league title.
Apologies, I quite missed the opening phrase somehow.
In any case, the point stands as to why the Europa is no longer scoffed at
This is my third and final post in here today so I will not be able to respond anymore after this.
In regards to the lower positioned teams my concern there is not the quality of our team but the mentality towards them. That is something that Klopp has to sort out.
I think 5 quality signings to our first team (rumored) will improve us greatly and if they stay that would mean 4/5 current starters will be dropping to the bench and thus improving the quality of our squad depth.
I wouldn't think we will be seeing a Henderson/Can pairing in the midfield again but it dose concern me that Klopp has been quoted as saying he doesn't think we need a DM specialist.
It now remains to be seen what quality of player we can actually attract. I don't think that it will be a case as a player just wont fancy us but more about how much other clubs will pay them and weather a player believes he will be a starter for a new club.
You boys will obviously spend massive but in doing so what will happen to the likes of Rashford? Do you think he will get the game time once all the big names start arriving or will he fade away in to the back ground?
In regards to the lower positioned teams my concern there is not the quality of our team but the mentality towards them. That is something that Klopp has to sort out.
I think 5 quality signings to our first team (rumored) will improve us greatly and if they stay that would mean 4/5 current starters will be dropping to the bench and thus improving the quality of our squad depth.
I wouldn't think we will be seeing a Henderson/Can pairing in the midfield again but it dose concern me that Klopp has been quoted as saying he doesn't think we need a DM specialist.
It now remains to be seen what quality of player we can actually attract. I don't think that it will be a case as a player just wont fancy us but more about how much other clubs will pay them and weather a player believes he will be a starter for a new club.
You boys will obviously spend massive but in doing so what will happen to the likes of Rashford? Do you think he will get the game time once all the big names start arriving or will he fade away in to the back ground?
Then we have got ourselves the pitch perfect illustration of the ends justifying the means. The bits in the middle count too.
Had Klopp not got us 4th spot on the last day of the season we would have suffered next season (player purchases, etc). However, we couldn't argue that Klopp gave us some really good football along the way with the means (there's that word again) he had. Had Jose not won the Europa final he would have been pilloried on here (correctly) by the majority of Utd fans and no one would have said well done Jose, just unlucky with the last game.
I love trophies and I love the Europa Cup. I did when Utd fans were laughing at us for winning it back in 2001 playing shit on a stick football and I like it now when you have won it playing with even worse shit on a stick football. You questioned our means then and we're questioning those means now.
It's very hard to win the PL playing with the sort of energy and intensity Klopp demands, unless you have a big budget.
The league is so competitive that you need a big squad to go all-out every game. Liverpool will keep having horror runs, like the spate of defeats they suffered in January, if they don't buy a lot of players. But by doing that they risk spreading the budget too thinly and missing out on players of quality. It's a difficult one for them.
The league is so competitive that you need a big squad to go all-out every game. Liverpool will keep having horror runs, like the spate of defeats they suffered in January, if they don't buy a lot of players. But by doing that they risk spreading the budget too thinly and missing out on players of quality. It's a difficult one for them.
Considering the fact that we had all these cup runs, Europa league, League cup and FA cup quarters, not to mention that we had the worst run-in imaginable, if I were a Liverpool fan I would not feel pleased with 4th considering the fact that they barely scraped 4th, got comically knocked out of both domestic cups in the same week, basically had one game a week to play for most of the season. If you put both teams' seasons into proper context, Liverpool fans should not feel pleased but lucky.
You say that he has brought back a 'winning mentality' however it's his system that won the cups (with more than a slice or two of luck) so you are making assumptions that you have no right to make since you are not on the training pitch and you have no idea how/what the players are think. What we can conclude is what we can physically see - and the Caf faithful are critical of much the same that I outlined above, so no need for you to post your fanboi colours to the mast.
To compare Klopp to Rodgers .. and then say he hasn't improved upon him, is to know nothing about Liverpool FC's play / players in the two eras. End of this conversation.
Klopp and Penaltypool dont have a system or luck then?
Feel free to question whatever. The point is simple though, for a lot of clubs, success/failure is determined towards the end as its about what they win. All this " but but we played good football" usually comes from those who don't actually win stuff. If you'd have called Klopp's season a success even if you hadn't qualified for the CL, more power to you.
lol end of this conversation my ass. To say the mentality of the players is the same as under moyes and van gaal is ignorant. Call it a winning mentality or a stronger mentality or whatever adjective you like, he's improved on it. Just look at one Maruane Fellaini if you only want to judge by what you physically see. You clearly haven't heard the united players speak or watched them play as much as me so I'm quite relaxed in knowing i have a better idea of our teams mentality changing than someone who relies on second hand information from an opposition message board.
As to your point about Klopp being better than Rodgers for Liverpool, last i checked he hasn't finished higher than him in the league and hasn't won a single trophy so yeah results wise he's not done better. Now Rodgers was a clown and he had the racist biter playing great, I'll give you that but he also got the most out of sturridge whereas klopp hasn't been able to do that. His defensive record is just as shitty and he seems just as stubborn and unable to be flexible tactically. And my younger brother supports your shitty club so I actually watch ( unfortunately) quite a few of your games. I know you'd like to think there's been a lot of progress between the two but results on the pitch say otherwise.
Cafeteria is spouting nonsense again. Winning trophies is a great habit to have. Every Liverpool fan I know would be absolutely tugging themselves silly if they had won both the League Cup AND Europa League finals this season.
Klopp must be sickened we won the europa league. All his spiel about having an edge in the transfer market with champions league football just went down the drain. I hope we blow them out of the water in a summer transfer saga. Van Dijk please.
The excuse for the 8th placed finish last season from many was the concentration on the EL. Had you won it rather than bottling the lead in the final you'd have justifiably been able to say it was the right decision. As it was, you fecked it up and ended up winning nothing and equaling your worst ever Premier League finish.
If you'd missed out on top 4 on the final day this season then questions would be asked of Klopp by a large section of your support, and rightfully so. You've had a campaign free of European distraction, bottled both the EFL and FA Cups in January, and would have seen you bomb from the title-challenge you were supposedly mounting at the turn of the year to failing to qualify for the CL at all. Playing some nice football August-December wouldn't change the fact that the season would have been a failure. Likewise, had United cocked up last night, United's season would have been viewed as a failure and pressure would have seriously mounted on Mourinho.
Football often comes down to very fine margins, and it's utter nonsense to disregard winning a European trophy as having an influence on the quality of a season because you weren't a fan of the football played at times throughout it.
I've never been particularly optimistic about the club and the team, and I'm quite used to spectacular failures and utter humiliation. It was clear at Burnley that we didn't fix our mistakes from last season, and it was clear in December that the squad is too thin to continue the battle for top. That December crisis was the point where I settled for Top 4 battle.
Well, that's a pretty laughable statement after a season we've had with a bang on average squad and bunch of "potential" signings.
It's funny because they were tugging themselves last year when they were in both finals. But they are liverpool so of course they bottled both...
Season you've had? You had no Europe and were out of every competition in January and after you bottled it against Palace and drew with Southampton you needed to win your last two matches to finish 4th. Which you guys really should be thanking West Brom for the 3-1 win in March over Arsenal.
Can't disagree with the money we've spent and lack of achievement - but 'we've' (meaning in RC) been over that many times and pretty much all Liverpool fans agree with you !
One thing should be clarified with the cup losses though : in every single case (for both Liverpool and Klopp) we/he started the final as underdogs so it's hardly surprising they lost (Man City, Chelsea & Sevilla and for Klopp BD lost to BM who had won the league, in every case (inc. one on penalties), bar the one to Wolfsburg who had finished 2nd in the BL the season BD were 7th.
Maybe we should have expected the law of averages to make an appearance ? Possibly but let's not make it seem as if we/he should have won those finals. Probably out of all of them Liverpool should have won the EL final last year, we had the chances to put it away in the 1st half and in the 2nd clearly just ran out of legs.
Finally - as far as Liverpool are concerned, how is it a mental block in any way or form ? Different managers, different players, different teams ! Is it the physical entity of the club and grounds that somehow have the mental block ?!
'I throw like a vegetarian' - What does that even mean?
Of course they do and that was my point. It's the system not a 'winning mentality' (which I'd classify as 'experience' not 'mentality' anyway, if I was being pedantic). And Klopp's is a system I particularly enjoy watching, especially now that he's switched to a midfield diamond vs. teams that park the bus. Every team has luck, both good and bad. United had a huge slice with their first goal last night !
Your total lack of respect for the fourth place up is disgusting.They finished behind 3 teams and barely ahead of another (Arsenal). What are we spoiling exactly?
Maybe I'm not quite understanding what you mean to be fair.
Klopp 4 - living the dream.
They celebrate finishing 4th and drawing against West Brom like they've won a trophy. That's their level.
'I throw like a vegetarian' - What does that even mean?
I think they throw the sticks to kill animals
So by being shit at it he would be a vegetarian
What you are talking about is 'confidence' not a 'winning mentality'. Confidence is something that can ebb and flow whereas surely, if there was such a thing as a 'winning mentality', it would remain stable.
Finishing higher is hardly relevant unless all you are doing is looking at a piece of paper and making calls based on that. I would expect a team with an on-fire Suarez, Sturridge, Sterling & Gerrard, probably the best attack in Europe that season, to finish higher, wouldn't you ? Rodgers actually blew the league at Palace going all out for GD, when we had the match won at 0-3, it would have meant a point vs. Chelsea was enough. And Rodgers was an utter fraud in Europe, our performances under Klopp have him beat all sides up there.
They did back in 2001. I had to endure them saying it was better than our winning the league by like 18 points that season and plenty suggested it was even better than our 1999 treble. I shit you not. Some shite about "harder to win cups than a league".
I've been getting a lot of grief today of them totally unprovoked. Sending me pics of Jose celebrating the cup win and laughing at him so I shot back with the WBA photo and their open top parade for the FA cup back in 2006. Sound RAWKish here but there's 3 of them in a group message actually telling me the 4th place cup is better and that it's better to qualify for CL as a 3rd seed with a qualifier in August than to enter the group stage directly as a 2nd seed. Dead serious too.
Plenty of "It's only Klopp second season" stuff too.
They're bloody mental mate, better off ignored.
But even the one trophy you have managed to win in 11 years, which by the way is hilarious, was against a Championship side and even then it went all the way to a penalty shootout.
And it's not like being an underdog instantly means you should lose. Wigan, Birmingham and Chelsea against Bayern are all examples off the top of my head of underdogs that managed to do the business over the last few years. Seems a bit easy to just say oh we were never the favourites so there you go.
As for the mental block I'm not sure, I think once a club gets used to losing it's hard to shake that off.
Low protein intake reduces your muscle strength. Animal products are main source of protein for most people on this planet.'I throw like a vegetarian' - What does that even mean?
We need a Cb comfortable playing in a high line, expansive on the ball and comfortable in big spaces. Van Dijk looks like he'll be capable of doing that, of course he'll be playing in a much different system here than at S'hampton. Much more akin to his Celtic days.
My honest assessment of them and Klopp is that they've done "alright". He's not looked a very adaptable manager, but he's got the best out of what he's got for the most part. I genuinely think they will struggle juggling Europe (I think they will be in the Europa League if not in September, certainly by February), they will probably sign 6-7 players of average quality with perhaps one signing in there that comes good. That's going to be hard to gel and mean they won't win the Autumn league again this year. Obviously as far as an attraction they are the sixth most desirable destination (Arsenal are still more attractive to most players), so that will hold them back and just the general feeling that it's a victim club is always there holding them back I feel. Klopp has to get a lot right this coming season to get them in a good position for 2018/2019 season I feel. If he keeps them 4th and has a cup run this season then fair play and that's also fairly realistic to believe. I just think a safe bet is them to be around 6th and a cup run or two.
Won't rise to the wumming
Of course it doesn't instantly mean you should lose but it does mean the odds are against you .. or you wouldn't be the underdogs !Again with the mental block - an inanimate object can't have a mental block ! So now we've taken the club out of the equation we are down to the many different players / managers that can't possibly all have had a collective 'mental block', which is why I call BS on that theory.