I'd say them. Heavily overperformed with an average squad. We've been underwhelming for larger parts even with the trophies.
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
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I'd say them. Heavily overperformed with an average squad. We've been underwhelming for larger parts even with the trophies.
I feel sorry for any united fan who doesn't see winning two trophies as being better than finishing fourth with no trophies no matter the respective strengths of the two squads on paper.
United have had the better season after last night but that doesn't mean Liverpool haven't had a good season as well.
End of the day both sets of fans can be reasonably happy about their seasons but also with plenty of things to improve upon for next season.
For United that means style of play and missed chances. For Liverpool it's squad depth and struggles against lesser teams from time to time.
End of the day both sets of fans can be reasonably happy about their seasons but also with plenty of things to improve upon for next season.
For United that means style of play and missed chances. For Liverpool it's squad depth and struggles against lesser teams from time to time.
After last night, it's definitely us who have had the better season in terms of results. We are through to the group stages of the CL while they still have to qualify. Also, we have won two trophies and they have zilch.
In terms of the actual style of play, I would say that their style has been far more appealing.
In terms of the actual style of play, I would say that their style has been far more appealing.
I think you have to look back to the start of the season & ask what your initial targets were. For us it was quite simple, break into the top 4. So on that score we've achieved that target. I imagine everyone involved with United would have taken a top 4 spot for granted considering what happened last summer ( Mourinho, Pogba etc) A title challenge would have been expected at the very least surely. So you'd have to say you fell well short of that target. But for me personally, winning silverware = a successful season. However I'm old school, & it seems the newer generations, not to mention those who hold the purse strings, have different priorities.
Utd, but it was Liverpool if you lost the final. Should the swinging vote come to the last game after spending multi millions?
Is the right answer. Had United lost it would have been very poor but winning the EL made a world of difference and was massive for next season too. Congrats (thru gritted teeth)
Progression and who had the better season are two different aspects entirely.
I'd say United have a lot more work to do to be competitive next season in the PL and CL whereas I feel Liverpool took a massive step forward this season - the one negative was being unable to break down 10 men behind the ball teams however dropping Coutinho deep at the peak of a diamond seems to be a good solution for those teams.
So now the Summer becomes all important in securing maybe 4 first team players to usurp he incumbents and to add enough squad depth to maintain performance when the inevitable injuries or crowded match scheduling hits.
If the last game is a final then of course it's gonna massively impact how a season is viewed. Should means nothing, don't tell a rich man how to spend his money you broke bastards. When you lost two finals last year, while finishing 8th , your manager and fans thought process was winning trophies is more important. Well guess what, we finished higher than you did last year and won the trophies you couldn't win. So suck it
United's trophy haul is impressive. No question.
Liverpool's progress this season has been impressive given the 8th place finish last year. No question.
On any measure both clubs are in healthier fettle than 12 months ago. I'd like Liverpool to have won two trophies but I'm also happy that league Liverpool have tallied 76 points in a season. It's very good progress.
Who was liverpool manager last season? Who was united manager last season? In mourinhos first season in charge he has brought back the winning mentality to United and that is something no liverpool manager since Benitez has been able to do for your club. Thats more progress than klopp has achieved. Lets be clear Klopp hasn't even reached Brenton levels of "success"
I suspect our resident Liverpool fans are feeling less bullish today 
Klopp has done well with that tumescent squad it has to be said. Liverpool don't worry me in any way though. Spurs, Chelsea and City concern me as rivals. Pool are just a boil that occasionally needs lancing.
Klopp has done well with that tumescent squad it has to be said. Liverpool don't worry me in any way though. Spurs, Chelsea and City concern me as rivals. Pool are just a boil that occasionally needs lancing.
I suspect apart from City and Arsenal, every supporters of the other top six teams could be relatively happy by their teams.
I'd happily swap 4th for Europa league and league cup trophies.
After fterUnited fans have spent decades scoffing at those particular trophies it's nice to see they have begun to finally appreciate them.
That said, I am quite happy with 4th all things considered. In terms of where we are as a team, it probably also speaks more of our progression than another cup of run would have. And we played some great stuff at times. It's been really entertaining to watch.
After fterUnited fans have spent decades scoffing at those particular trophies it's nice to see they have begun to finally appreciate them.
That said, I am quite happy with 4th all things considered. In terms of where we are as a team, it probably also speaks more of our progression than another cup of run would have. And we played some great stuff at times. It's been really entertaining to watch.
Liverpool might be but I know I wasn't overly happy under Van Gaal's first season when we won bugger all, had no Europe and just about scraped 4th place. Even considering the mess Moyes left us.
Well it's a bit more complex than that but generally yes, United have had a better season overall. Two cup wins and qualifying for the CL is better than no trophies and qualifying for the CL.
That said I could grant Liverpool supporters some understanding for their positivity. I personally think their squad is average quality wise and yet Klopp has managed to break them into the top four - so who knows if he manages some good signings in the summer. They also play (more often than not) better football than they did last season and better football than most of the teams in the league.
But yeah, given the EL came with CL qualification, I'd take our season every time.
Your lack of trophies though is surely becoming an issue.
Think of all the money you've spent over the last 11 years and for what? A single League cup. You've also lost FA Cup, League Cup, Champions League and Europa League finals in that time. Klopps lost 5 finals in a row.
Is it not becoming a mental block?
I should have added to my post that I think getting 4th for Liverpool represents a decent season given resources etc. My main point was aimed at some fellow United fans who seemed to suggest they'd have swapped places with Liverpool - which to my mind is a strange way to view success in football.
I'm obviously hoping that United will be comfortably in the top 4 next season and ideally putting in a title challenge. This would mean one of the current top four will be outside it next season and we all know who united fans would like this to be
Agreed - in a couple of year's time I suspect we won't look back at this season and lament all the terrible home draws, we'll just think of the two shiny trophies that put us out on our own as the most decorated English club of all time. It shows how far behind the scousers we actually were that it has taken us 30 years to get there.
Liverpool had no Europe competition and bailed out early in the fa cup with 1 a week games and struggled at times. They required a result on the last day to cement 4th place.
Hardly brilliant. Let's see how well they cope with European football. By the way, if they fail to qualify for champions league, they drop in to Europa League right?
And in other news, discounting charity Shields, world club cups, etc. Manchester United have officially the biggest trophy haul compared to Liverpool.
42 major trophies to Liverpools 41
Admittedly the Europa League has definitely been looked down on, as it has quite universally by English fans. Remember the old "Thursday night, Channel 5" chant? The CL qualification has added a massive impetus to win it. Without it, it wouldn't carry the same value.
But when has the League Cup been scoffed at? United have won it more than anyone in the last 10 years. Not quite as prestigious as the FA Cup, but I don't think the consensus among United fans has ever been negative towards the League Cup. I vividly remember a lot of fans being annoyed at getting turned over 4-0 by West Ham in the 4th or 5th round back in 10/11, as winning it that year would have meant we'd won it 3 years in a row. We did win the league and reach the CL final that year, but it was still annoying we limped out, in a year where Birmingham City ended up winning it. We were definitely pissed that we went out in the semis against Sunderland under David Moyes, in what was the worst penalty shoot out of all time.
If anything, we've given the League Cup more of a go than the FA Cup in the last decade or so. Our record in the latter in recent years is pretty awful.
How have they managed to make the 3rd best achievement anyone can do is qualifying for something else on the next level up? Everything else is bald people scrapping over the comb.
We're all falling for this aren't we?
We're all falling for this aren't we?
Coming 4th is like winning a trophy? Nah, actually winning a trophy feels like winning a trophy.
In terms of acheivement, what did Liverpool gain by finishing 4th that United did not also gain by winning the Europa?
You are right, though, there was a time when United - along with many other clubs I might add - did not consider the Europa League to be a worthwhile venture. But that was then and this is now. The Europa became significantly more prestigeous after Uefa, aware of the fact that their trophy was considered to be a hindrance to those who entered, saw fit to grant the winning team a spot in the CL the following season. With that added incentive, the Europa league is now very much worth winning.
2nd, 3rd, 4th, winning the Europa. One and the same thing, but with the Europa you get to bring home a trophy. Are you really telling us that you wouldn't swap places in an instant?
Think Klopp deserves a lot of credit, i think they have the weakest team in the top 7, yet they got into the champions league, credit where credits due.
Different work to do, but I'm not sure I'd say "a lot more". Liverpool have figured out how to play an attacking style of football which, at peak, looks as dangerous as any in the league. To challenge in the PL and CL next season, I think you need to bring the defense up to the same level as the attack (which isn't exactly Klopp's specialty), make that dangerous attacking play more consistent, and figure out the block against defensive bottom half sides. All three can be addressed with a combination of good summer recruitment, and team progress generally (another season under Klopp, players more familiar with each other etc).
United have figured out how to play a defensively resolute style of football which, at peak, looks strong and flexible enough to match any in the league. To challenge in the PL and CL next season we need to find a greater attacking fluency and be confident enough in ourselves to not shrink from every big game and pray for a scoreless draw. Hopefully another year of the squad growing together, plus the inevitable big addition (Griezmann or whoever else, we know there'll be at least one) will address these challenges.
Different work to be done, but I'm not sure United's is that much greater than Liverpool's. Going from "top 4 team that puts together runs of attractive, attacking football" to actual title contender isn't easy. It's claimed one of the greatest PL managers in Arsene Wenger, for example.
Both clubs have a massive step to take next season.
Liverpool wouldn't normally make their defence significantly better without sacrificing some attacking prowess - throwing the FBs forward as much as they do probably.
The obvious counterpoint & worry is that they circumvent this logic by having the axe fall on Lovren.
The obvious counterpoint & worry is that they circumvent this logic by having the axe fall on Lovren.
I think our league performance is a bigger block these days. We haven't had back to back decent seasons since 09. 13/14 is basically the only one that's been good since then (and this one, i suppose, though nowhere near as good as 13/14). We're badly in need of showing we can actually build on something. Any team can snatch a cup here and there. I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, but it doesn't necessarily reflect much about the development of the team. At least not as much as the league does, imo.
Looking at the longterm, I'd rather we started showing the same kind of consistency in the league as we did under Rafa than pick up a league or FA Cup.
Apparently, we're all in on signing VVD. Hopefully, the aim is to make Lovren 3rd choice.
learn to read, ffs.
United had a better season because of the EL, but I rather watch Liverpool play, much more entertaining. Granted I'm not a United supporter so who cares.
Also, I lrefer Klöpp over Mourinho.
I will go and hide now.
Also, I lrefer Klöpp over Mourinho.
I will go and hide now.
Assuming he overcomes his injury, then Van Dijk would be a decent signing although if it costs you 50-60 million then I doubt you'll see much more quality coming in in terms of squad depth.
The fact also remains that Klopp has performed below Rogers up to now. I'm not suggesting Klopp isn't a better manager, but I'd say the attacking football you played under Rogers in 13/14 albeit with better players, was superior to how it was this season under Klopp.
Your owners kind of shafted Rogers in the transfer market that summer when they forced Ballotelli on him to replace Suarez and then failed to properly back him in the next window too. They then brought in Klopp to guarantee that 4th place which he failed to do.
I honestly think Klopp has just about achieved the bare minimum this season given no European midweek games and I'd not be at all surprised if by Christmas Liverpool are outside the top 4 and back in the Europa having gone out of the CL at the group stages.
The fact also remains that Klopp has performed below Rogers up to now. I'm not suggesting Klopp isn't a better manager, but I'd say the attacking football you played under Rogers in 13/14 albeit with better players, was superior to how it was this season under Klopp.
Your owners kind of shafted Rogers in the transfer market that summer when they forced Ballotelli on him to replace Suarez and then failed to properly back him in the next window too. They then brought in Klopp to guarantee that 4th place which he failed to do.
I honestly think Klopp has just about achieved the bare minimum this season given no European midweek games and I'd not be at all surprised if by Christmas Liverpool are outside the top 4 and back in the Europa having gone out of the CL at the group stages.
Don't know what you're arguing about - I never said it was brilliant. It is a good achievement to make top four without question given their squad compared to those around them.
Trophy count says you, quite obviously.
We pretty much fulfilled our goals this season regardless, or will once qualifier is over, so I think most fans are very pleased with how the season turned out.
Liverpool fans are really hurting this morning going by Twitter and the Scouse media. Watching us win the two finals they failed to win under Jurgen "Best manager in the league, la" Klopp, knowing that it's handed us instant CL qualification which probably means we'll sign all of our targets and the simple fact that Jose has managed to do all of this in his first season just adds even more salt to their wounds.
Next season will be interesting. We will sign big name players, make no mistake about it. Liverpool will sign "potential" and the jury is still out on Klopp's transfer business.
Deep down, the Liverpool fans are shitting bricks - they think they've got it sussed and up we pop again, spoiling everything.
Next season will be interesting. We will sign big name players, make no mistake about it. Liverpool will sign "potential" and the jury is still out on Klopp's transfer business.
Deep down, the Liverpool fans are shitting bricks - they think they've got it sussed and up we pop again, spoiling everything.
They finished behind 3 teams and barely ahead of another (Arsenal). What are we spoiling exactly?
Maybe I'm not quite understanding what you mean to be fair.
Not a foregone conclusion by any means. Some potentially tricky ties about.
Erm, finals are usually the last games of the season and that's how some clubs measure their success. Not everyone is lucky enough to win the top 4 and fair play trophies after all.
They finished behind 3 teams and barely ahead of another (Arsenal). What are we spoiling exactly?
Maybe I'm not quite understanding what you mean to be fair.
Going by posts on RAWK and the Liverpool fans here earlier in season and on Facebook etc, they really did think that we were a club on the way down and they were going on to big things just because they smashed a few teams.
Don't get me wrong, Liverpool are improved. But they simply aren't the big enough pull for the best players. They scraped 4th this season and that was with playing just 1 game a week.