Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

iBoss said:
Style of play, style of play, style of play, he should still be getting more out of these players.
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Say that again?

Having looked at the players available I don't really agree. They're a very average group, especially with the injuries. He massively overachieved getting those results at City and Chelsea and there was a knee jerk stampede to talk about what an immediate impact he was having. Since that they've looked poor in recent weeks and he's now a fraud. Wouldn't read too much into it, it was always going to take more than a few months for him to turn them around.
 
Eckers99 said:
Say that again?

Having looked at the players available I don't really agree. They're a very average group, especially with the injuries. He massively overachieved getting those results at City and Chelsea and there was a knee jerk stampede to talk about what an immediate impact he was having. Since that they've looked poor in recent weeks and he's now a fraud. Wouldn't read too much into it, it was always going to take more than a few months for him to turn them around.
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City are always shite without Kompany and Chelsea are actual shite. Southampton were atrocious.
 
Pink Moon said:
No he hasn't been. He's inherited a squad that is crap. The United squad is shocking (sorry, but it just is) yet none of their players would walk into the United side (which is funny considering they totally outplayed them yesterday). That gives you an idea of how bad it actually is.
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He's doing worse than Rodgers at this point and not even getting as much out of the players as Rodgers did. Looks completely out of his depth and his biggest tactical masterstroke has been signing a shit centre back and playing him as a striker.
 
Akash said:
He's doing worse than Rodgers at this point and not even getting as much out of the players as Rodgers did. Looks completely out of his depth and his biggest tactical masterstroke has been signing a shit centre back and playing him as a striker.
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Just wait until they sign Shane Long, that guy can press all day long. Just you wait!
 
Akash said:
He's doing worse than Rodgers at this point and not even getting as much out of the players as Rodgers did. Looks completely out of his depth and his biggest tactical masterstroke has been signing a shit centre back and playing him as a striker.
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That's a bit of expected tho, as those are still Rodgers players.

He is imposing the same style he had at Dortmund, which was successful with one set of players. For me Klopp doesn't have plan B when his A game doesn't work out. We will see if he can make that plan A work when he brings in some players in the Summer. However this season he won't be successful as IMO he is not that adaptive with this set of players so far.

He's currently on a run of 3 wins in 10 games which is kinda poor form so they need to improve a lot because march and the games prior and after that month would be very hard for them.
 
prath92 said:
The reason they sacked Rodgers midway through the season was because they thought he wasnt getting the best out of the players. Now if Klopp accepted appointment mid season, the whole its not his players can only be used as an excuse to an extent.
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Akash said:
He's doing worse than Rodgers at this point and not even getting as much out of the players as Rodgers did. Looks completely out of his depth and his biggest tactical masterstroke has been signing a shit centre back and playing him as a striker.
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It had taken Rodgers 3 years to be that poor. Which is sort of the point some people are getting to make.
 
Enigma_87 said:
That's a bit of expected tho, as those are still Rodgers players.
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Do you really believe that is how it works? "All we have are shit, wht you do this season doesn't mean anything. You'll get to buy a new team in the summer". Ooooorrr, do you sack a manager cause you believe a new manager can perform better NOW? I get that he needs time and his own players to perform max, but its pretty damning that his ONE style is getting found out each and every week in this league.
 
Our squad has serious problems, and yet I think the only Liverpool players who would get into our team with everyone healthy is Clyne (Darmian's been too all over the place so far), Coutinho and another attacker, depending on who you rate from Benteke/Firmino, to go with Martial, Coutinho and Mata/Rooney.

Klopp needs to sign, at minimum 6 new starters, to go with Benteke/Sturridge, Firmino, Coutinho, Clyne and I could see Henderson or more likely Can being the brainless runner in in a midfield trio. That's a ton of work.
 
He's building his own team atm though. Mignolet is a great resigning ;).
 
Happytom82 said:
Do you really believe that is how it works? "All we have are shit, wht you do this season doesn't mean anything. You'll get to buy a new team in the summer". Ooooorrr, do you sack a manager cause you believe a new manager can perform better NOW? I get that he needs time and his own players to perform max, but its pretty damning that his ONE style is getting found out each and every week in this league.
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I think he can do much better. He should be hovering around 4th place. The players he has at his disposal don't fit well into his "philosophy" and I can see him improving if he get players that are better fit.

Again I also think he won't be successful there, but surely he can do better next season? First half against Arsenal (bar the shoehorn defence that was awful) IMO they were pretty good going forward. But then again those who he has now can't sustain that level for 90 mins.

Akash said:
No it's not though. Why do you think Rodgers was sacked?.
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I'm sure everybody expected Klopp to be doing better, but more has to do with the idea of him being one of the best in the world and would shoot them forward instantly in the table. Which of course was a bit of a hoax at first.
 
iBoss said:
That Southampton team ended up in 8th, played better football and Lallana was excellent. Liverpool are currently 9th. There is not that much difference.
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I don't see how that matters. Lallana isn't providing anything whatsoever for Liverpool.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I don't see how that matters. Lallana isn't providing anything whatsoever for Liverpool.
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Pochettino got a lot out of him. Same Pochettino getting a lot out of that Spurs side which was terrible for a number of seasons after Bale left. Maybe Pochettino is a good manager and gets the most out of players? Sounds like something Fergie would do...

Bottom line if Klopp is a good manager he should get more out of this squad. He cant bin the lot and cannot sign superstars. I don't see anything encouraging about him so far so he is failing at this point.
 
iBoss said:
Pochettino got a lot out of him. Same Pochettino getting a lot out of that Spurs side which was terrible for a number of seasons after Bale left. Maybe Pochettino is a good manager and gets the most out of players? Sounds like something Fergie would do...

Bottom line if Klopp is a good manager he should get more out of this squad. He cant bin the lot and cannot sign superstars. I don't see anything encouraging about him so far so he is failing at this point.
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Well there are clear deficiencies in the squad and Lallana is clearly not showing anything to Klopp so far to show that he should be a part of that team. He's awful.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Who said blame Lallana? Weird.
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What I mean is, players like Lallana have shown their worth before. A lot of the fault is on the management. Instead, the argument is, 'it's not his team, let him get his own players in blah blah'. Ok fine, but that doesn't excuse basically the whole team under performing under him right now.

When he wins against City and Chelsea, he's the greatest ever though. He is using the same players right? Then there is no reason to go away to Newcastle, have one shot on target and lose 2-0, his signings or not.
 
iBoss said:
What I mean is, players like Lallana have shown their worth before. A lot of the fault is on the management. Instead, the argument is, 'it's not his team, let him get his own players in blah blah'. Ok fine, but that doesn't excuse basically the whole team under performing under him right now.

When he wins against City and Chelsea, he's the greatest ever though. He is using the same players right? Then there is no reason to go away to Newcastle, have one shot on target and lose 2-0, his signings or not.
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I, unlike some on here, don't think Klopp is some sort of messiah. I don't buy into his showmanship and quite frankly, I can't stand him. That's irrelevant though. This isn't Dortmund, nor is it the Bundesliga and he has a very difficult job on his hands. Judging by his arrogant nature when he took the job, I think it's fair to say that he somewhat underestimated this league.

Anyhow, I stand by what I said about Lallana, he's wank. He's what's wrong with English football when it comes to transfer fees: Englishman with better than average technique, lets spunk £25m on him. One goal and one assist in 30 games says it all.
 
Robbie Boy said:
I, unlike some on here, don't think Klopp is some sort of messiah. I don't buy into his showmanship and quite frankly, I can't stand him. That's irrelevant though. This isn't Dortmund, nor is it the Bundesliga and he has a very difficult job on his hands. Judging by his arrogant nature when he took the job, I think it's fair to say that he somewhat underestimated this league.

Anyhow, I stand by what I said about Lallana, he's wank. He's what's wrong with English football when it comes to transfer fees: Englishman with better than average technique, lets spunk £25m on him. One goal and one assist in 30 games says it all.
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His performances at Southampton warranted about £20million. Yes they over paid, but there you go.
 
Their squad actually isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Firmino, Can, Henderson, Milner, Coutinho, Clyne, Sakho (on a good day), Benteke etc is not a bad set of players, and also pretty suited to his style of football (barring Benteke).

Firminho has looked impressive of late. Beginning to show signs of the player who was very highly rated in German football.
 
iBoss said:
His performances at Southampton warranted about £20million. Yes they over paid, but there you go.
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A player of that level in any other league wouldn't command that fee. His limitations have been exposed at Liverpool and international level.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Their squad actually isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Firmino, Can, Henderson, Milner, Coutinho, Clyne, Sakho (on a good day), Benteke etc is not a bad set of players, and also pretty suited to his style of football (barring Benteke).

Firminho has looked impressive of late. Beginning to show signs of the player who was very highly rated in German football.
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They need a striker, a right winger and one central midfielder with a brain.
 
JPRouve said:
They need a striker, a right winger and one central midfielder with a brain.
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Yeah I guess. Unless they can get Benteke functioning well in this team of course.

As for right winger, how is Markovic doing these days? He was supposed to have some ability.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Yeah I guess. Unless they can get Benteke functioning well in this team of course.

As for right winger, how is Markovic doing these days? He was supposed to have some ability.
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I forgot about Markovic, he could be the answer but he is selfish which isn't good in Klopp's system. As for Benteke he isn't agile and quick enough, someone like Lacazette suit them more.
If Klopp can sign Lacazette, Xhaka and someone like Ntep, they should be very good.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Their squad actually isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

Firmino, Can, Henderson, Milner, Coutinho, Clyne, Sakho (on a good day), Benteke etc is not a bad set of players, and also pretty suited to his style of football (barring Benteke).

Firminho has looked impressive of late. Beginning to show signs of the player who was very highly rated in German football.
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It's not bad, but bar a couple of players, with Coutinho being the prime example, it's not exactly CL quality. Milner's a useful squad player, as he showed at City, but I'm not sure he's a lot more. Henderson's decent, but he's being expected to fill the boots of Gerrard despite being nowhere near his level. Benteke's a good striker, but he's got his limitations and doesn't seem to fit into this Liverpool side.

They probably don't need that much more. A top class striker and GK would be massive, for example, and would noticeably enhance their side. But they do need at least a couple of top additions. Firmino is beginning to show his quality as you say, which will undoubtedly benefit them.
 
Cheesy said:
It's not bad, but bar a couple of players, with Coutinho being the prime example, it's not exactly CL quality. Milner's a useful squad player, as he showed at City, but I'm not sure he's a lot more. Henderson's decent, but he's being expected to fill the boots of Gerrard despite being nowhere near his level. Benteke's a good striker, but he's got his limitations and doesn't seem to fit into this Liverpool side.

They probably don't need that much more. A top class striker and GK would be massive, for example, and would noticeably enhance their side. But they do need at least a couple of top additions. Firmino is beginning to show his quality as you say, which will undoubtedly benefit them.
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Thing is, Spurs are currently "CL quality" by premier league standards, and Kane is the only player of undoubted quality in that team. Maybe Lloris too. The difference with Spurs, and it's the difference between them and us too, is that they are really cohesive and well-coached footballing side.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Thing is, Spurs are currently "CL quality" by premier league standards, and Kane is the only player of undoubted quality in that team. Maybe Lloris too. The difference with Spurs, and it's the difference between them and us too, is that they are really cohesive and well-coached footballing side.
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Perhaps, although you could maybe make a case for Eriksen when on form, and Anderweireld on the basis of his form this season. Even having someone of quality in each part of the field can help massively.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Noone is really dismissing him, but this is a Manchester United forum, and he's a Liverpool manager. Laughing at him and enjoying his failings is sort of what we do.
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Perfectly fair to laugh at his struggles, a few comments were clearly getting overly giddy at his poor results so far though. I'm enjoying them too, I'm happy for them to not remain a concern to City for as long as possible, but I'm still wary at the very real prospect he can get this Liverpool side into shape, they're a team with an inherent capability to punch above their weight in the big games. If they get that big-team mentality back and start to demolish the smaller sides then they'll be a threat.

Balu said:
I'm not sure how big Klopp's pull really is, if he doesn't finish in the top 4. I can't see his stature making up for the lack of CL football in comparison to the summer after Liverpool finished 2nd under Rodgers and then they couldn't attract top quality players at all.

I'm really disappointed with Klopp's work so far. I could be wrong of course, but to me it looks as if he's involved in so many different things. He's trying to change the club, the fans, but he really should just focus on the football right now and ignore everything else around it. At Dortmund, he became successful while quietly doing brilliant work as a coach. The really loud stuff went under the radar until the success came. At times it really looks as if he lost that focus. It might be just a tired cliche, I'm aware of that, but despite our rivalry with Dortmund, I always had respect for him. Even though he had his mental moments. Right now he looks like a joke to me, he really should tone it down a bit even if it goes a bit against his character.
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Klopp is certainly held in wide regard around Europe, I believe he could be a pretty decisive factor when it comes to Liverpool signing players. Rodgers was known to be a very good coach but lacking in his man-management which cannot be said of Klopp. Obviously if they want a player that a better team in the CL wants then it's very unlikely it will matter who they have in charge, but in terms of competing with similar teams like Spurs then the difference between Klopp and Rodgers becomes pretty significant. Plus, it is not just the pull of Klopp himself but the message his appointment sends out in that Liverpool have attracted a manager of the highest profile.

I think your last paragraph is spot on though, that's what has irked me with Klopp since he arrived. He's trying to be a saviour for Liverpool, he needs to take a step back and remember he is just the manager and focus on the responsibilities he has. The way he took the players over to the fans after the draw with West Brom demonstrated that, it was a poor decision and suggested he is trying to do too much at once.
 
BobbyManc said:
Perfectly fair to laugh at his struggles, a few comments were clearly getting overly giddy at his poor results so far though. I'm enjoying them too, I'm happy for them to not remain a concern to City for as long as possible, but I'm still wary at the very real prospect he can get this Liverpool side into shape, they're a team with an inherent capability to punch above their weight in the big games. If they get that big-team mentality back and start to demolish the smaller sides then they'll be a threat.
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I don't know about overly giddy. Given the ridiculous hype his arrival garnered, the response has been pretty proportionate. Everyone knows he can do well there, but it's a very hard job all the same, and he'll do well to out-do the guy he replaced. Some of their play going forward has indeed been impressive but there's enough holes there too. I'm personally more worried about us not sorting ourselves out ATM, really. With our resources and squad (which is IMO already better than theirs), I want us to aim far higher.
 
iBoss said:
I meant whilst he was at Southampton.
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Well that's all irrelevant now. Kagawa was brilliant for Dortmund but pretty wank for us. Plenty of players look great at other clubs but fail at bigger clubs after making the step up.
 
Damien said:
He's not even playing Caulker as a CB. Two appearances for Liverpool so far, both as a striker.
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No - but now they have a defender if one of the other breaks down. Before Caulker they didn't have anyone
 
Robbie Boy said:
Well that's all irrelevant now. Kagawa was brilliant for Dortmund but pretty wank for us. Plenty of players look great at other clubs but fail at bigger clubs after making the step up.
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Yeah but Kagawa failed at the smaller club. :p
 
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