Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

There's similarities to how Klopp wants pool to play to how they played under Rodgers a few seasons ago so it shouldn't be too difficult to implement his style.

Because he's a likeable character so many are willing to give him a free ride, unfortunately hes severely underperformed and there's no escaping that.
 
ivaldo said:
There's similarities to how Klopp wants pool to play to how they played under Rodgers a few seasons ago so it shouldn't be too difficult to implement his style.

Because he's a likeable character so many are willing to give him a free ride, unfortunately hes severely underperformed and there's no escaping that.
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:p
 
ivaldo said:
There's similarities to how Klopp wants pool to play to how they played under Rodgers a few seasons ago so it shouldn't be too difficult to implement his style.

Because he's a likeable character so many are willing to give him a free ride, unfortunately hes severely underperformed and there's no escaping that.
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They have no striker. You can be the hottest sweet talking mofo on the planet. If you have no penis you can´t put it in the hole. And if you have no goalie or central defense you end up taking it in the a**. That´s Liverpool right now. :D
 
JustFootballFan said:
They have no striker. You can be the hottest sweet talking mofo on the planet. If you have no penis you can´t put it in the hole. And if you have no goalie or central defense you end up taking it in the a**. That´s Liverpool right now. :D
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:lol: well put.

But they have a striker they paid £30mil for sitting on the bench. Now he may not be suited to how Klopp eventually wants his side to be playing but he's still a good striker, he should be playing a style suited to his side, not the other way around, it's one of the biggest criticisms of LVG and Klopp is following suit.
 
Sorry, this nonsense about not having a striker should stop. Benteke has close to a 1 in 2 record in the league and is a good pretty good striker. Just because Klopp is incompetent and has no clue how to use him should not be an excuse for failure.
 
Benteke used to be strong, pacy striker and used to play similar to Lukaku at Villa. People now make it seem as if he is a striker who is just good in the air
 
Akash said:
Sorry, this nonsense about not having a striker should stop. Benteke has close to a 1 in 2 record in the league and is a good pretty good striker. Just because Klopp is incompetent and has no clue how to use him should not be an excuse for failure.
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0,38 goals per game overall in league games in England and Belgium. Had one season above 0.5 goals per game. It´s not like he adds much besides his goal scoring. Klopp tried to play high or low balls into him that he can hold up. He can´t control them. He tried to play crosses into him. He moves wrong or not at all in the box. Maybe he´ll get there eventually, but right now I wouldn´t play him either.

And I know I´m right, cause STeve Nicol disagrees with me. :lol:

.
 
prath92 said:
Benteke used to be strong, pacy striker and used to play similar to Lukaku at Villa. People now make it seem as if he is a striker who is just good in the air
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I think his Achilles injury really hindered his athleticism.
 
prath92 said:
Benteke used to be strong, pacy striker and used to play similar to Lukaku at Villa. People now make it seem as if he is a striker who is just good in the air
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Benteke is decent with the ball at his feet but nowhere close to Lukaku. Lukaku is also a lot faster. Benteke is a monster in the air though. I think I'm a Klopp team, you have to run the channels. He's simply not that kind of player IMO. I just can't see him performing well in that team.
 
JustFootballFan said:
0,38 goals per game overall in league games in England and Belgium. Had one season above 0.5 goals per game. It´s not like he adds much besides his goal scoring. Klopp tried to play high or low balls into him that he can hold up. He can´t control them. He tried to play crosses into him. He moves wrong or not at all in the box. Maybe he´ll get there eventually, but right now I wouldn´t play him either.

And I know I´m right, cause STeve Nicol disagrees with me. :lol:

.
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Playing for one of the worst teams in the league over the last few season, 0.38 is good going. He's a pretty good player who should be a regular in the team not sitting on the bench and then have the fans moaning about a lack of strikers.
 
iBoss said:
What? I said he was worth about £18 million when he moved and that they over paid.
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You're saying he's still a valuable player for Liverpool and is worth £18m. Fact is, he's shown nothing to prove he's worth anything close to what they paid for him. He's been dross for them and it's now obvious that his true market value is significantly lower than £18m. Unless you think anyone would pay that for a player who does feck all.
 
Robbie Boy said:
You're saying he's still a valuable player for Liverpool and is worth £18m. Fact is, he's shown nothing to prove he's worth anything close to what they paid for him. He's been dross for them and it's now obvious that his true market value is significantly lower than £18m. That is of course if you think anyone would pay that for a player who does feck all.
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I said he's shown his worth before in what was one of the leagues best trio's 2 seasons back. That in a team of similar level to this current Liverpool side. The whole team looks shit at the moment anyway.
 
Akash said:
Playing for one of the worst teams in the league over the last few season, 0.38 is good going. He's a pretty good player who should be a regular in the team not sitting on the bench and then have the fans moaning about a lack of strikers.
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Aye, that's not a bad rate tbf, in a team that has scored about 3 goals since he's left.
 
prath92 said:
Benteke used to be strong, pacy striker and used to play similar to Lukaku at Villa. People now make it seem as if he is a striker who is just good in the air
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His style couldn't be more different from Lukaku's. Lukaku's first touch and hold up play used to be terrible (massively improved this season though) while that's exactly one of Benteke's biggest assets. Lukaku needs space behind the defence to exploit, Benteke needs crosses (cliché but true). Lukaku can make things happen on his own right now and Benteke just can't no matter how hard he tries. I'd swap them in a heartbeat.
 
Every single time I see Benteke (and remember Balotelli/Lambert) I just think: thank God Rodgers has left us.
 
iBoss said:
I said he's shown his worth before in what was one of the leagues best trio's 2 seasons back. That in a team of similar level to this current Liverpool side. The whole team looks shit at the moment anyway.
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But it's irrelevant how good he was at Southampton. He's shown he's clearly not good enough for a top club.
 
Robbie Boy said:
But it's irrelevant how good he was at Southampton. He's shown he's clearly not good enough for a top club.
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What is a top club? Top 4? Liverpool aren't good enough for top four anyway.

Perhaps they should bin the whole lot. Lallana has shown more than most of that squad. Or maybe a lot of them just need a good manager to show their true worth.
 
Samid said:
It's not Rodgers' fault that Lambert turned up when he asked for Sanchez.
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And Balotelli turned up when he asked for Neymar? Those players DO NOT WANT TO COME TO LIVERPOOL. Its wasn't the committee who said no. Doesn't mean you shoot your own dick off to make a point which is what it felt like with him and buying players. A gunshot to the dick every time.
 
iBoss said:
What is a top club? Top 4? Liverpool aren't good enough for top four anyway.

Perhaps they should bin the whole lot. Lallana has shown more than most of that squad. Or maybe a lot of them just need a good manager to show their true worth.
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1 goal and 1 assist in 30 games speaks volumes.
 
Dumbstar said:
And Balotelli turned up when he asked for Neymar? Those players DO NOT WANT TO COME TO LIVERPOOL. Its wasn't the committee who said no. Doesn't mean you shoot your own dick off to make a point which is what it felt like with him and buying players. A gunshot to the dick every time.
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Finished second in the league, 100+ goals scored, 5p ahead of Arsenal that couldn't even manage 70 goals and failed again in Europe. Case could be made about Liverpool being a more attractive option than Arsenal at the time. Location being the only catch. So why wouldn't top players go to Liverpool in the summer of 2014? You obviously had money to spend.
 
iBoss said:
I think it's actually 2 goals, 4 assists. In comparison Coutinho has 5 goals and 3 assists. So the difference is two goals, with Coutinho being their main player. Firmino has 3 goals, 4 assists. Two coming at Arsenal recently as well.
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Nope, all the stats I've read said 1 goal and 1 assist in his last 30 PL games.

Dear Christ, this is getting pedantic. You made a point referencing several Liverpool players and what they did for their 'former clubs'. My point is that it means feck all. Lallana has proven that he's pretty fecking shit and Southampton was his level. Anyone with a set of eyes can see that.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Nope, all the stats I've read said 1 goal and 1 assist in his last 30 PL games.

Dear Christ, this is getting pedantic. You made a point referencing several Liverpool players and what they did for their 'former clubs'. My point is that it means feck all. Lallana has proven that he's pretty fecking shit and Southampton was his level. Anyone with a set of eyes can see that.
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Southampton finished 8th. Liverpool are 9th. He is capable at this level.

That stat is wrong as well.
 
Klopp did not improve Dortmund significantly straightaway either, he finished upper mid-table with them for two seasons before mounting a successful title campaign from what I recall (and it was a surprise at the time that Dortmund won the league as they had a pause between 2002 and 2011 I believe).

He needs transfers, needs to build at least part of the team like he wants it to be. Unlike Moyes he has history of building a very good side from scratch and rebuilding so he should at least be trusted in the mid term.
 
iBoss said:
Southampton finished 8th. Liverpool are 9th. He is capable at this level.

That stat is wrong as well.
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Well F365 made reference to it in their 16 conclusions and I've seen it other places. Yes ok, let's be deliberately obtuse and talk about where both clubs currently are and pretend that Liverpool are going to be a 9th place team for the foreseeable future.

The funniest thing is, I actually agreed with the majority of your original post but you seem to have taken massive offence to me not rating Adam fecking Lallana. The same player that has been subbed off in half of his last 14 starts all the while contributing nothing. I think we should leave it here. This has been going on, what, 3 days?
 
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Samid said:
Finished second in the league, 100+ goals scored, 5p ahead of Arsenal that couldn't even manage 70 goals and failed again in Europe. Case could be made about Liverpool being a more attractive option than Arsenal at the time. Location being the only catch. So why wouldn't top players go to Liverpool in the summer of 2014? You obviously had money to spend.
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That's what I thought as well untill Sanchez decided to join Arsenal instead of us. Apparently, one good season doesn't change much, plus a lot of players probably knew we'd struggle to make top four again once Suarez left us.
 
Samid said:
Finished second in the league, 100+ goals scored, 5p ahead of Arsenal that couldn't even manage 70 goals and failed again in Europe. Case could be made about Liverpool being a more attractive option than Arsenal at the time. Location being the only catch. So why wouldn't top players go to Liverpool in the summer of 2014? You obviously had money to spend.
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RobinLFC said:
That's what I thought as well untill Sanchez decided to join Arsenal instead of us. Apparently, one good season doesn't change much, plus a lot of players probably knew we'd struggle to make top four again once Suarez left us.
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It's fair to say that the 2nd placed finish was an exception rather than the rule - considering the past 4 seasons before that Liverpool finished 7th, 8th, 6th and 7th. If you look at the last decade liverpool have been in the CL only a handful of times. Sure, London would always be a more attractive proposition for any player (or any other professional for that matter) but even on a purely football level, Arsenal have been a much better proposition compared to Liverpool in the last 5 odd years.
 
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Samid said:
Finished second in the league, 100+ goals scored, 5p ahead of Arsenal that couldn't even manage 70 goals and failed again in Europe. Case could be made about Liverpool being a more attractive option than Arsenal at the time. Location being the only catch. So why wouldn't top players go to Liverpool in the summer of 2014? You obviously had money to spend.
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Because we directly asked Sanchez. He said no he wants London. So he went to Arsenal.
 
Sarni said:
Klopp did not improve Dortmund significantly straightaway either, he finished upper mid-table with them for two seasons before mounting a successful title campaign from what I recall (and it was a surprise at the time that Dortmund won the league as they had a pause between 2002 and 2011 I believe).

He needs transfers, needs to build at least part of the team like he wants it to be. Unlike Moyes he has history of building a very good side from scratch and rebuilding so he should at least be trusted in the mid term.
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You have to remember where Dortmund were coming from when he took over. Klopp actually turned the club around from the very start.

But I don't think you can expect the same at Liverpool where he has to manage another guy's squad in a foreign league/culture and didn't even get a pre season. I thought his first impact would be bigger, but I think you can only really judge him some time into next season.
 
Sarni said:
Klopp did not improve Dortmund significantly straightaway either, he finished upper mid-table with them for two seasons before mounting a successful title campaign from what I recall (and it was a surprise at the time that Dortmund won the league as they had a pause between 2002 and 2011 I believe).

He needs transfers, needs to build at least part of the team like he wants it to be. Unlike Moyes he has history of building a very good side from scratch and rebuilding so he should at least be trusted in the mid term.
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They finished 13th the season before he took over. He brought them up to 6th in his first season and they already fought for 3rd place and qualification for the CL in his 2nd season. A bit of a collapse towards the end and Bremen's late run meant they finished 'only' 5th. Obviously the title win in his 3rd season was a surprise, because everyone expected van Gaal to push on with Bayern. But they were a team on the up and certainly one of the favourites for a top 3 finish after Bremen lost Özil.

I think Klopp's biggest mistake was to take the job midway through the season. It would have been better for the club and for him, if they made the switch at the end of this season. I'm not a big fan of real manager changes during the season. It rarely works out. If you really want to get rid of your manager, bring in an interim manager till the end of the year and give your new manager a fresh start with a full pre-season. It's such a tough spot to be in for him right now, because he has to balance longterm planning with immediate success and can't make squad changes the way he wants to. An interim manager can finish this season with only shortterm goals on his mind while the new manager can already plan the next season with his squad and a longterm plan. It's a much better solution and less of a gamble.
 
Balu said:
They finished 13th the season before he took over. He brought them up to 6th in his first season and they already fought for 3rd place and qualification for the CL in his 2nd season. A bit of a collapse towards the end and Bremen's late run meant they finished 'only' 5th. Obviously the title win in his 3rd season was a surprise, because everyone expected van Gaal to push on with Bayern. But they were a team on the up and certainly one of the favourites for a top 3 finish after Bremen lost Özil.

I think Klopp's biggest mistake was to take the job midway through the season. It would have been better for the club and for him, if they made the switch at the end of this season. I'm not a big fan of real manager changes during the season. It rarely works out. If you really want to get rid of your manager, bring in an interim manager till the end of the year and give your new manager a fresh start with a full pre-season. It's such a tough spot to be in for him right now, because he has to balance longterm planning with immediate success and can't make squad changes the way he wants to. An interim manager can finish this season with only shortterm goals on his mind while the new manager can already plan the next season with his squad and a longterm plan. It's a much better solution and less of a gamble.
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Agree with all of that, but I think we would've pursued Klopp before the season started if it was a possibility. He clearly didn't want to start working immediately after his Dortmund tenure, I'm happy we kept Rodgers for a few more months because if we did sack him after last season, we would've ended up with an average manager again.

I'm sure he's got some long-term guarantees from our board, if such things even exist anymore these days. We have to realise he's not a miracle worker and wouldn't turn us into a top four side straightaway. We should give him an appropriate amount of time to change things at the club and evaluate him after next season or something like that. Of course we'll act properly if he really can't get his act together but I don't think that'll happen, if he can't transform us then I doubt anyone can and we're truly lost.

Also, and that's not meant as a slight on the Bundesliga, I think it's easier to break into the top four in Germany than it is in England (not currently but back then when he did it at Dortmund). Correct me if I'm wrong though, because that Bremen side with Özil and Diego was a joy to watch and they scored for fun iirc.
 
RobinLFC said:
Agree with all of that, but I think we would've pursued Klopp before the season started if it was a possibility. He clearly didn't want to start working immediately after his Dortmund tenure, I'm happy we kept Rodgers for a few more months because if we did sack him after last season, we would've ended up with an average manager again.

I'm sure he's got some long-term guarantees from our board, if such things even exist anymore these days. We have to realise he's not a miracle worker and wouldn't turn us into a top four side straightaway. We should give him an appropriate amount of time to change things at the club and evaluate him after next season or something like that. Of course we'll act properly if he really can't get his act together but I don't think that'll happen, if he can't transform us then I doubt anyone can and we're truly lost.

Also, and that's not meant as a slight on the Bundesliga, I think it's easier to break into the top four in Germany than it is in England (not currently but back then when he did it at Dortmund). Correct me if I'm wrong though, because that Bremen side with Özil and Diego was a joy to watch and they scored for fun iirc.
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Nah, that is a complete fair assessment. The Bundesliga lacked quality in general compared to the current EPL and outside Bayern, there was not really a team as clear number two. This void was filled eventually by us under Klopp.

I also agree with @Balu . I think what hurts Klopp the most right now is the lack of quality training time to actually introduce his system properly. With the high amount of games most training days are spent with Regeneration.

The pre season this Summer will be massive for him and Pool and if they can´t make the top 4 this season, they are probably better off with not playing Internationally at all next season to also be able to develop inbetween match days.

In general, the expectations and hype around Klopp were way overboard. Some people expected Liverpool to suddenly turn into us during our peak under Klopp, when the accurate measurement point was our actual team building period (2008-2010).
 
RobinLFC said:
Also, and that's not meant as a slight on the Bundesliga, I think it's easier to break into the top four in Germany than it is in England (not currently but back then when he did it at Dortmund). Correct me if I'm wrong though, because that Bremen side with Özil and Diego was a joy to watch and they scored for fun iirc.
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No doubt about that. The Bundesliga was struggling to have a single true top team, let alone 3 or 4 back in 2008 when Klopp took over. It was the perfect timing really with the league in heavy transition because of all the young German talents coming through the new academy system and establishing themselves as key players in all the teams and Klopp being the first of the new generation of German managers after the German FA made significant changes to the training system for coaches (a very underrated part in the success of German football in the last few years by the way).

Right now I'd say it's similar in both leagues, because of the many inconsistent sides in Germany and England and it's pretty awful timing for Klopp to take over midway and most likely fail to take advantage of the crazy season. And I doubt it'll continue like that for long, because the English top teams can't continue to do such an awful job. It'll get a lot more difficult for Liverpool to break into the top 4 the next years in my opinion.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Well F365 made reference to it in their 16 conclusions and I've seen it other places. Yes ok, let's be deliberately obtuse and talk about where both clubs currently are and pretend that Liverpool are going to be a 9th place team for the foreseeable future.

The funniest thing is, I actually agreed with the majority of your original post but you seem to have taken massive offence to me not rating Adam fecking Lallana. The same player that has been subbed off in half of his last 14 starts all the while contributing nothing. I think we should leave it here. This has been going on, what, 3 days?
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Liverpool look like a team that should finish 6th-9th so the difference between the teams is not all that different.
 
iBoss said:
Liverpool look like a team that should finish 6th-9th so the difference between the teams is not all that different.
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Righteo. Anyhow, this conversation has quite frankly gotten weird. My original point stands; Lallana is shite and his past exploits at Southampton mean nothing now.
 
Akash said:
He's doing worse than Rodgers at this point and not even getting as much out of the players as Rodgers did. Looks completely out of his depth and his biggest tactical masterstroke has been signing a shit centre back and playing him as a striker.
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He threw him on as a striker late in a game they needed a goal. Defenders go forward nearly every single time under those circumstances. I seem to remember Chris Smalling aimlessly running around up top in Germany a few weeks back...
 
Akash said:
Playing for one of the worst teams in the league over the last few season, 0.38 is good going. He's a pretty good player who should be a regular in the team not sitting on the bench and then have the fans moaning about a lack of strikers.
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I'm not so sure about that. Sometimes strikers will score more in a worse team because they're the main man so everything is here's towards getting them chances. Look at Bony at City. Playing in a much better team but useless anytime he does play.
 
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