Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

If we somehow get 3rd placed, I don't mind L'pool getting 4th place. Pep never played Europa League so would be a sight. L'pool would do better in CL than Arsenal, I reckon(?).

Realistically I fear Arsenal would recover & get that 4th place, while I am not about us making top 4 ourselves given I think Mourinho actually fancies EL as it's a trophy, one we never win and Mourinho made a big mark in our history for winning not 1 but 2 trophies in the first season.
 
Alex99 said:
If it's easier to find a formula to win against the league's cannon fodder, then why, in two seasons, hasn't he found it?

You've played against the top sides like it's a cup final this season, but there's 42 points available against the 7 other teams in the top 8, and 72 against the rest of the league. You also dropped 30 points against the other teams in the top 8 last season, so this season may well be a one-off in that regard, particularly if you have to face top-sides after a mid-week game next season. Conversely, you've struggled against the weaker sides two seasons running (three if you count Rodgers' last full season).

Liverpool fans talk about getting quality in the squad like it's a guarantee. They can't spend as much as other top clubs, can't offer wages as high, can't guarantee they'll be challenging for trophies, and have no real star power in the squad to attract other top players. Who exactly are you getting in that's going to elevate you from a team that can fight, just about, on one front, to a team that'll be consistently getting the better of the majority of the league, whilst also competing in Europe?
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Like it's a cup final? What does that even mean?

There are plenty of players out there whom are within our range and could conceivably take the step to the next level at LFC.

Mane is one example. A couple more signings like him in the summer would go a long way. It's called shrewd transfer business, and Klopp has a decent history of it.
 
Alex99 said:
Does he? Most of the criticism I've seen is for the players, not Klopp, and a good chunk of you seem convinced you're getting a tremendous squad overhaul that'll sort out all of your problems.

Let's say you do hold on to the top 4, what are your expectations for next year?
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Not at all. There's plenty criticism of our defensive issues and Klopp's in game management/poor subs. It's just that you don't get fans calling for his head like you do at many other clubs. I'd say his reputation in the game has earnt him that.

Also, we may have some clear frailties - but finishing fourth would be a clear sign of progression. Our bench would look threadbare at Sunderland right now. Obviously we will strengthen the depth within our squad with European football.

My expectation would be for another top four finish and potential title challenge - I actually feel there's a fine line between the two, determined by injuries and a bit of luck.
 
@Alex99 I would try and defend Klopp but every time I do, he and the team have a nightmare and prove you right. If I try and be positive, we're still a better side than we were last season, and our points tally is fairly decent for Liverpool's Premier League standards.

I'll reassess everything at the end of the season and decide how I feel about Klopp as our manager.
 
Kurosawa said:
Was initially depressed by this loss but told myself we go again and next year is our year, also top 4 does not fecking slip! I'm all good now.
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That is one way to get likes :)
 
Klopper76 said:
@Alex99 I would try and defend Klopp but every time I do, he and the team have a nightmare and prove you right. If I try and be positive, we're still a better side than we were last season, and our points tally is fairly decent for Liverpool's Premier League standards.

I'll reassess everything at the end of the season and decide how I feel about Klopp as our manager.
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If you make top four he has done well. If not he needs to next year otherwise the pressure will be on.
 

I can't stop laughing at this.

Complaining about the long ball again.
"The first long ball from Hennessey was a ...really long ball..."
"If they win this long ball, then already it's very dangerous...if they don't and then they get the second ball but cannot go through, then they play on the wing, cross, Christian Benteke....counter attack...so..good, strong players, so it's all that so ...we knew it"

"I'm very much...used to nothing more in my life than getting up after a knock...so ...nothing happens more often to me than this so that's no problem"
 
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Robbie Boy said:
He's not a fraud. Just funny that everyone on here calls Guardiola a fraud. I call him a fraud in the sense that he has this cult following that feel he can do no wrong. He has a status at Liverpool that isn't warranted by what he has done since arriving at Anfield. What he done with Dortmund and Mainz is great but it's in the past.
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Klopp can get a lot more out of average players, Pep is too stubborn with his system and he looked incredible as a manager because he has managed two of the three best teams in the world. Credit to him for innovating with Barca in the way he did but he's definitely been helped out by having such great players at his disposal.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
Like it's a cup final? What does that even mean?

There are plenty of players out there whom are within our range and could conceivably take the step to the next level at LFC.

Mane is one example. A couple more signings like him in the summer would go a long way. It's called shrewd transfer business, and Klopp has a decent history of it.
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ShadesOfTomato said:
Not at all. There's plenty criticism of our defensive issues and Klopp's in game management/poor subs. It's just that you don't get fans calling for his head like you do at many other clubs. I'd say his reputation in the game has earnt him that.

Also, we may have some clear frailties - but finishing fourth would be a clear sign of progression. Our bench would look threadbare at Sunderland right now. Obviously we will strengthen the depth within our squad with European football.

My expectation would be for another top four finish and potential title challenge - I actually feel there's a fine line between the two, determined by injuries and a bit of luck.
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It means you've been a bunch of game raising cnuts against the other top sides. The opening games you picked up 7 points against Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea, but lost to Burnley, and in the middle of the season you lost to Leicester, Swansea and Hull, as well as drawing with Sunderland, but picked up 8 points from United, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal.

I simply don't buy this notion that there are swathes of players waiting to join you and suddenly turn into top players. He's been good, but Mane's been nowhere near as impressive as some of your fans have made out, and certainly isn't a player to be feared by any of the top sides. Not yet anyway.

Okay, so what about the Champions League? What about the two domestic cups? And more importantly, what if he fails to win anything, and misses out on top 4?

You're just about hanging on to top 4 this season and you've not had any European distractions, I really can't see you strengthening enough to mount a title challenge whilst in Europe.
 
Ramshock said:
Coutinho too good for LFC and Klopp knows it. Has made him the managers pet.
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Coutinho went missing from his comeback after injury up to the derby a few weeks ago.

He's still very inconsistent. I think Lallana and Mane have both had better seasons.
 
This must be his 4/5th disappointing season in a row?
Those heady Dortmund days are falling further and further into the past
 
Oga on top. said:
I think if we successfully overcome Palace at home then we are looking really good for CL football. A big club like ours has been out of it for far too long and I still think Klopp is the man to take us to that next step. You United fans can take the piss as much as you like about every little thing he says and does but you guys all know very well that we wouldn't even be competing for a top 4 place without him. Who could we have had instead of him at the time? Ancelotti? We all know the squads he's worked with, I'm sorry but I don't think he would have been much of a success with the shite players Rodgers left us. If Klopp spends this summer we will be a threat, he has barely spent any money and he's over achieving this season so with some additions to the squad you guys need to get ready to hate him some more.
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This post is great because you lost to palace :)
 
cyberman said:
This must be his 4/5th disappointing season in a row?
Those heady Dortmund days are falling further and further into the past
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Nah by any means 13/14 was a good season. They had so many injuries that season but managed to get 2nd place and were knocked out in the CL by Real (a game in which Mkhitaryan missed huge chances).
 
Ramshock said:
Why did he not like Benteke, was he really that bad at Liverpool?
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We never played to his strengths, and Klopp likes his striker to be a part of his pressing style. Benteke was useless at playing a pressing game.

It highlights a big issue with Klopp though, which is his lack of flexibility. He's so hung up on playing this one style of play that a decent goal scorer like Benteke goes to waste, because he doesnt fit the system. That lack of tactical flexibility has cost us a fair few times since Klopp arrived.
 
VorZakone said:
Nah by any means 13/14 was a good season. They had so many injuries that season but managed to get 2nd place and were knocked out in the CL by Real (a game in which Mkhitaryan missed huge chances).
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Yeah but they should have finished second though, it was up to them to challenge Bayern.
Injuries could be a reason why it was poor but it was poor non the less. If missed chances became a signal of a good season then maybe Jose is our man!
 
I still think they will pip us to fourth, so it's a bit strange how their fans are losing their rags at this result.

One look at our remaining fixtures will tell you we're not favourites to get more points than Liverpool at the end of it.
 
cyberman said:
Yeah but they should have finished second though, it was up to them to challenge Bayern.
Injuries could be a reason why it was poor but it was poor non the less. If missed chances became a signal of a good season then maybe Jose is our man!
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it was a good season, what are you talking about being poor?
 
I haven't seen the game but I think it's alarming if the "spineless performace" comments are accurate. Liverpool should be fighting their hearts out for the CL spot and Klopp is supposed to be a manager who gets the best out of their players.

I'd really like to see Pool miss the top four but then again if they get in there, then the next season could be comedy gold with all the exhausting fixtures that's really poison to Klopp and his system
 
Rob67 said:
Yeah, it was Can's fault but Lovren is the whipping boy, so all the blame has been put on him instead.
The fact that Can was playing his own version of Musical Statues (without the music) had nothing to do with it.
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Lovren gave away the corner with his second act of gross stupidity so that is why Carra etc. are blaming him. Of course the corner wasn't defended at all so it's not on Lovren alone.
 
AndyJ1985 said:
If they had European football this season they'd be in 7th/8th. The depth of their squad is rubbish. I mean look at the state of their bench today.
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If we had Euro football then Klopp would not have trimmed the squad and had a positive net spend. How difficult is it for some people to grasp that ? So weird, it's like they are deliberately looking for ...... oh wait !
 
AndyJ1985 said:
If they had European football this season they'd be in 7th/8th. The depth of their squad is rubbish. I mean look at the state of their bench today.
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Perhaps, but if they were in Europe they'd probably go into the season with a bigger squad too.
 
Rafateria said:
If we had Euro football then Klopp would not have trimmed the squad and had a positive net spend. How difficult is it for some people to grasp that ? So weird, it's like they are deliberately looking for ...... oh wait !
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So the players Klopp deemed not good enough would have improved your side?
Does that make sense to you?
 
cyberman said:
So the players Klopp deemed not good enough would have improved your side?
Does that make sense to you?
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a) we would have bought new players without doubt
b) we may have retained some of those let go - and compare those to our bench yesterday.

Does that make sense to you ?
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
If we finish top four it'll have been a fairly good result for the season and testament to Klopp, especially with the resources we've had in comparison to Arsenal and United. feck knows whether we will.



On the flip side, you have to credit him with a fantastic record against the league's top 8 (unbeaten all season), which displays the ability to manage a side that can compete with the league's best.

Which is harder to develop? I'd argue it's easier to find a formula to win against the league's cannon fodder. A bit more quality in the squad would go a long way to solving that problem.
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What happens though if the other top sides suss us out next season & start taking more points off us ? If we don't 'find a formula' - as you put it - we'll be right up shit-street. To overcome those sides in the lower half of the table Klopp needs to tweak his tactics & team selection. He doesn't seem quite capable of doing that, it's a one-size fits all style of management. 42 goals conceded this season & with still 4 games left to play. The vast majority of those goals have come against sides in the lower half of the table. So what does that tell you ? It tells me that he's had all season to rectify the problem but it's still a massive, massive flaw in his management skills. Maybe it is the personnel. Lovren obviously can't be trusted. After a couple of decent performances he turned into his clown alter-ego again yesterday. So that's 2 centre-backs we're going to need for next season with Sakho obviously on his way out. I don't know who's to blame for Klopp getting rid of 14 players & only bringing in 7 new faces during his time here, but that bench yesterday was a bunch of young, inexperienced kids who should never have been put in the situation of getting thrown on in the hope of salvaging something from a very important game.

Injuries are part & parcel of the game. It's the manager, & the club's, responsibility to ensure we having the playing staff available to compete on all fronts. Our manager, & the club, have failed miserably on that score this season.
 
Rafateria said:
a) we would have bought new players without doubt
b) we may have retained some of those let go - and compare those to our bench yesterday.

Does that make sense to you ?
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I think whatever way you look at it responsibility lies with Klopp. He's underestimated the depth required which I find odd given a) he's had a while in the league now and b) he knows his style of play is exhausting.

Why he didn't bring some reinforcemence in this January is beyond me. Makes the decision to freeze out Sakho look even more ridiculous.
 
cyberman said:
Yeah but they should have finished second though, it was up to them to challenge Bayern.
Injuries could be a reason why it was poor but it was poor non the less. If missed chances became a signal of a good season then maybe Jose is our man!
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Bayern averaged 2,65 points per game that season (the EPL equivalent would be a 100 points season). There was nothing to challenge that year. We played a good league season and had a really good CL campaign (top 8 while being the only team to pose a real threat to the CL winner).

This current season is still up to air when it comes to final assessment. If Klopp manages to keep Pool on the CL spots then by all means the season will be a success for them.
 
Rafateria said:
a) we would have bought new players without doubt
b) we may have retained some of those let go - and compare those to our bench yesterday.

Does that make sense to you ?
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You let Sakho go knowing you had no cover, you have Milner at LB, Lucas at CB and Origi up front.
So no. It doesn't make sense to me.
 
Rafateria said:
And you have nothing useful or logical to say .. as usual.
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Read my posts in here - my logic is sound.

But I will repeat, just for you:

Plopp won't win feck all at Liverpool until he can work out how to defend properly.

Liverpool's model under FSG isn't working. Selling for profit only to replace with shite doesn't work. E.g. replacing Suarez with Benteke.

Liverpool haven't won feck all in years. Tick tock...
 
TheReligion said:
I think whatever way you look at it responsibility lies with Klopp. He's underestimated the depth required which I find odd given a) he's had a while in the league now and b) he knows his style of play is exhausting.

Why he didn't bring some reinforcemence in this January is beyond me. Makes the decision to freeze out Sakho look even more ridiculous.
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Totally agree. We could and should have had a decent stable of CBs but with sales and (unnecessarily) freezing out Sakho he cut his nose off to spite his face. We all knew we needed reinforcements due to a horrible injury list and AFCON but it's just possible that the players he wanted were not available in January so in that regard I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
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