Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
If you look at squad quality Liverpool should be finishing 5th-7th. Anything above is an achievement.
So they were wrong to sack Rodgers?
Rodgers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Klopp
He's doing a hell of a job at Celtic tbf.
I could do a hell of a job at Celtic.
(Probably a bit unfair, getting Dembele was a bit of a coup for a start)
(Probably a bit unfair, getting Dembele was a bit of a coup for a start)
Depends how much imput he had on signings. They are a 5-7th team on squad quality because of many of his signings.
Chelsea have changed managers frequently yet are the most successful teams in the past decade. Liverpool need to improve the quality of thier signings more than anything else. But long may it continue.
Bloody hell. They managed to convert Klopp into Rodgers!
Fatigue isn't quite the right terminology for me. I think you have to look at the overall health & well-being of the team (squad) as a whole.
So you'd expect MOST teams to be at their strongest between say games 5 - 12 of the season, fresh but have played themselves into form, no key injuries. There will be some variation around this depending on preparation / circumstances - as there will at every stage.
With LFC in Jan, they have just not been in good shape as an XI going out to play - too many changes, key men not there, couple do need a rest but he doesn't want to play Moreno for Milner (he has looked knackered a couple of times). But it all ebbs & flows too, they could get a surge now from Coutinho finding some form, Mane is back...
I think making huge generalizations that they are gone for the season is a bit lazy - although you might be right too.
And what happens when things are going less well is that your other weaknesses become more exposed.
Tactics are not rocket science or miracles - there's only 2 variables of whether you have the ball or you don't & what you do in each circumstance,but I'm still not believing that teams give up possession deliberately as a preferred method of play like some posts read all over this forum. More likely it is a natural consequence of a team saying our outfield committment to attacking is 3 or 4 players maximum at any one time, the rest keep the shape 24/7 kind of thing. And you won't draw them out if they do it in a very disciplined way. LFC keep giving them goals though, that isn't down to devious tactics from the opposition is it? Better teams give you more space to play because they normally commit more players to attack & creates a shape of game that has suited LFC better it would seem. You could also say they have different types of attacking players that maybe the LFC defenders are more comfortable playing against - which is a little bit strange, maybe.
/Ramble ends.
So you'd expect MOST teams to be at their strongest between say games 5 - 12 of the season, fresh but have played themselves into form, no key injuries. There will be some variation around this depending on preparation / circumstances - as there will at every stage.
With LFC in Jan, they have just not been in good shape as an XI going out to play - too many changes, key men not there, couple do need a rest but he doesn't want to play Moreno for Milner (he has looked knackered a couple of times). But it all ebbs & flows too, they could get a surge now from Coutinho finding some form, Mane is back...
I think making huge generalizations that they are gone for the season is a bit lazy - although you might be right too.
And what happens when things are going less well is that your other weaknesses become more exposed.
Tactics are not rocket science or miracles - there's only 2 variables of whether you have the ball or you don't & what you do in each circumstance,but I'm still not believing that teams give up possession deliberately as a preferred method of play like some posts read all over this forum. More likely it is a natural consequence of a team saying our outfield committment to attacking is 3 or 4 players maximum at any one time, the rest keep the shape 24/7 kind of thing. And you won't draw them out if they do it in a very disciplined way. LFC keep giving them goals though, that isn't down to devious tactics from the opposition is it? Better teams give you more space to play because they normally commit more players to attack & creates a shape of game that has suited LFC better it would seem. You could also say they have different types of attacking players that maybe the LFC defenders are more comfortable playing against - which is a little bit strange, maybe.
/Ramble ends.
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Interesting take on his performance last season.
You know what I see looking at their last season? - They won nowt and recorded their lowest ever finish in the premier league.
I hope he continues with that 'bang up job'. And January suggests he may even improve on it.
Delusions of grandeur.
I'd argue that's the exception rather than the rule. Plus, chelsea have has relative squad stability since Mourinho in 2004 (in terms of a core group of successful and vested players) and Chelsea have been particularly astute at managerial appointments.
I think that managerial stability is better in the long-run, which is why sacking Klopp at this point would be insane.
To use an analogy Liverpool started off the season like someone sprinting the 1st 2 laps of a 10,000 metre race. Looks great and you overtake everyone but there's a reason the best runners pace themselves over the entire distance. Liverpool and Klopp haven't learned that yet.
I despise the dippers/scousers/merseyside , but come on, the whole of Klopp's last season was geared towards the cups as it was way too late to do anything else.
Anyone suggesting he didnt do at least a "good" job last season is as deluded as your typical Rawkite is optimistic.
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Think he may need to evolve tactically though. The predictions pre-season was that we'd struggle against the park-the-bus sides. Didn't happen at first but he now seems to be incapable of finding a solution. It goes without saying that losing 4 & drawing once every 5 games isn't acceptable to any club, let alone Liverpool. We've lost the momentum now, so it's going to very tough in getting back on track especially as the likes of United, Spurs, & even City, are building up a head of steam.
Not who you replied to, but...
Since 2009 Liverpool have been a 6th-8th placed team. The one exception to that was 2013/14 where they mounted an unexpected title challenge and finished 2nd. Following Benitez's departure in 2010, expectations had been gone from "finish top 4" to "challenge for top 4/qualify for EL" but the Rodgers title challenge put them back to "finish top 4". After they missed out on CL qualification again in 2014/15 and finished the season poorly, the pressure was put on Rodgers to start 2015/16 well and not leave them playing catch up. He didn't start well so was sacked, with Klopp being brought in to get the season back on track and at least challenge for a top 4 spot. He failed to do that, and once again they found themselves without any European football at all, never mind not being in the CL. They've been out of Europe completely just 3 times since 2000, and all of them came from 2010 onwards. The last time it happened, they were a slip away from winning the league, and after looking like Chelsea's most likely challengers come the mid-point of this season, expectations were starting to raise from "finish top 4" to "challenge for the title". 4 games later and they're outside of the top 4 with fans already starting to trot out "if we challenge for the top 4 I'll be happy".
Whilst I'm not sure Rodgers was the man to get them back as top 4 regulars, you have to question the wisdom of letting him spend £80 million on new players in the summer, only to sack him at the start of October. If they didn't have faith in him, they should have dumped him after they finished the 2014/15 season by losing 3-1 at home to Palace and 6-1 away to Stoke, with just 2 wins in their last 8 games, whilst also getting dumped out of the FA Cup at the semi-final stage by Villa.
People keep pointing at the cup performances last season as signs of progress, but for a team who's ambitions are to consistently qualify for Europe's top club competition, being able to challenge on multiple fronts is precisely what they need to do, unless of course they expect to win the CL every season. There's no point qualifying for the competition if you need to choose between trying in it and trying to qualify for it next season, so I'm not really sure why Klopp's held in high regard for losing two cup finals and apparently abandoning the league to do so, and I'm not sure why some have suggested being knocked out of both cups this season is good because it'll benefit their league form. It's all based on pure speculation that in the summer they'll seriously strengthen the squad, when the reality is that they don't really appear to have the transfer budget to do so. Since FSG took over, their highest net spend has been just over £40 million, and in a world where Championship Wolves are buying players for £13 million and Leicester and Watford are rejecting near £40 million bids for players, you simply aren't going to strengthen a team to compete in the league and in Europe with that kind of money.
As suggested, the owners either have delusions of grandeur following 2013/14, or they need to invest a hell of a lot more money in the squad to achieve what they want to achieve. Klopp, as far as I'm concerned, has been no better than Rodgers was for them and hasn't shown anything to suggest he'll be better. If they finish in the top 4 this season, their expectations for 2017/18 should be to do so again whilst also putting in a good showing in the CL, something Rodgers couldn't do. If they don't, they either reevaluate their ambitions and lower them (which I don't think they'll do), or they'll have to seriously consider whether Klopp is the man for the job. He's getting by on reputation at the moment, with people hoping he'll do with Liverpool what he did with Dortmund.
They might not have been wrong to sack Rodgers, and as much as I don't like the guy, you have to feel that he was a bit hard done by to get sacked just over a season after nearly winning the league, only to be replaced by a guy who's basically doing no better another season and a half on.
What's the point of prematurely abandoning the main route of qualification for a competition in order to gamble on winning it? A reasonable job would have been at least securing Europa League qualification via league position whilst also getting to the final. I suppose you think Martinez got his priorities in order when Wigan got relegated but won the FA Cup?
Liverpool have an excellent chance of making top 4.
Only 14 matches left.
Only 14 matches left.
They were almost nailed on to make top 4 5 matches ago, and have capitulated. Strange timing for your comment.
does not mean they will lose or draw all their remaining games surely.
They still have a decent chance, but they're in a much weaker position than 5 matches ago.
They've gone from leading the chasing pack for the title to looking desperately over their shoulder at 6th.
Liverpool have a maximum of 14 games in the next 15 weeks. That's a huge boost for a team that plays like they do. Compare that to United, who have as many as 28 more games to go this season. We're unlikely to reach 3 finals admittedly, but 22 to 24 more games is very possible,
true. But they have time to recover from each match.
Though I think Klopp has made mistakes, he is not an idiot.
He will guide them to a resonable position.
The reality is he is now competing long term with clubs who have very good managers and funding in the likes of United, City and Chelsea. Arsenal and Spurs may not have the funds of these but they are still well run clubs.
Its going to be difficult for them to win the title.
That will be the main requirement of their fans.
Liverpool next 6 games are;
Spurs
Leicester
Arsenal
Burnley
City
Everton
I'm sure they will do very well. Not jinxing it!
Spurs
Leicester
Arsenal
Burnley
City
Everton
I'm sure they will do very well. Not jinxing it!
some tasty fixture this weekend though.
This comes with it's disadvantages too. It's harder to build up momentum with large gaps between fixtures.
There's 16 days between their next two fixtures, so even if they get something from the Spurs game they won't be carrying any momentum into the Leicester game.
After that the gaps are 5 days, 8 days, 7 days and 13 days, bringing us to April 1st, and with them playing Arsenal, City and Everton in that time. Following that they've got a quick burst of a game 4 days later, and then again 3 days after that. After that burst, short of re-arranged fixtures, they'll be waiting at least a week between games again.
They're in a slump and need to play to get themselves out of it, so I'm not sure how advantageous having to wait longer between games will be, particularly not when their next run of games largely consists of typically stronger sides.
Nah they will beat Everton, that's like a guaranteed 3 point for them every season. Think they will get a result at City too, probably a draw. The rest looks about right. I reckon they will get 12 out of 18.Spurs 1
Leicester 3
Arsenal 1
Burnley 3
City 0
Everton 1
9 out of a possible 18
Liverpool have won 2 of their last 5 against Everton. The last match was a final minute jammy goal from sturridge too, with Everton looking a better proposition now and Liverpool looking far worse.
Spurs 1
Leicester 3
Arsenal 1
Burnley 3
City 0
Everton 1
9 out of a possible 18
In all seriousness, they will get a maximum of 6 points.
They will beat Burnley and Leicester and lose the rest.
Big Mac on that prediction?
It's relative though, isn't it?
Wigan's target was to stay in the PL, and they sacrificed that to win the FA Cup.
Liverpool's target last season was to qualify for the CL, and they sacrificed European qualification completely and didn't even come away with anything.
If anything, Wigan did better, relatively speaking.
Everton haven't won at Anfield since 1999.
Racist.
Just noticed this gem from after the Chavs game
It was a little diamond sitting in the rough just waiting to be found, well done!