Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch

TheBiggest said:
I'd consider myself a mature, professional guy - so I don't want this to sound bizarrely sweeping.

But there is something inearth in anybody associated with Liverpool, there's a really bizarre delusion that because they were hip in the 80s, their time will come again soon. All LFC fans seem to have this strange chip on their shoulder and they get carried away by a little uplift in form. You can see it in ex-players too when they are acting as pundits, the likes of Houghton, Aldridge is a very odd one, Phil Thompson etc, they get too giddy when the team has a short run of wins. So their fans, their ex-players and now their board members all seem to have the same rush of blood to the head which is the reason boom boost cycles appear. It must be absolutely soul-destroying to be a fan or member of Liverpool - the amount of false dawns they set themselves up for is so crazy. And the strangest thing is; they NEVER learn.

They must be brain drained from all the disappointments they go through on an annual basis.

The facts remain that Liverpool have won 1 trophy (a League Cup) in the past 11 seasons and in the past 8 seasons they have finished 7th, 6th, 8th, 7th, 2nd, 6th, 8th and look most likely to finish 6th again this year.

Where do they get their positivity from? It's so strange.
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It's really not that bad being a Liverpool fan. I've seen the club win everything apart from the league since I started supporting them, and even then we've come close a couple of times. When you compare our situation to what fans of clubs like Villa, Newcastle, Leeds, West Ham etc go through, I think we're fairly lucky. All of those clubs have fans who show as much passion about their clubs as Liverpool fans do, but their clubs have given them very little back in return.

I do agree that the media gets carried away with Liverpool. Every good bit of form is met with hype and questions about whether we can reach the levels of years gone by again. I suppose it happens when their are so many ex Liverpool players in punditry because they aren't good enough for management.

I don't understand your point about the fans though. What's the point in supporting a team of you can't get excited about anything? It's not every year that most Liverpool fans expect to win the league. At the start of this season you would have been struggling to find one outside of RAWK who genuinely believed we could win it. But surely football would be dull if we're not allowed to get behind the team when they do well?
 
The journo's on Sunday Supplement said they have spoken to 'people in the game' who believe Klopp under-estimated the physicality of a full PL season and thinks by getting his team to out-run the oppositon, every game, for 9 months with no winter break was possible.

But I also think teams now know the best way to counter Klopp. Southampton were the perfect example over the 2 legs in the LC.

Sit Deep
Flood the middle of the pitch
Force Liverpool to cross the ball in
Target set-pieces
Hit them on the break
 
Thisistheone said:
The journo's on Sunday Supplement said they have spoken to 'people in the game' who believe Klopp under-estimated the physicality of a full PL season and thinks by getting his team to out-run the oppositon, every game, for 9 months with no winter break was possible.

But I also think teams now know the best way to counter Klopp. Southampton were the perfect example over the 2 legs in the LC.

Sit Deep
Flood the middle of the pitch
Force Liverpool to cross the ball in
Target set-pieces
Hit them on the break
Click to expand...
Yeah I've noticed a similar pattern in the Swansea, Wolves and Hull games. Chelsea is another example but they weren't as clinical on the counter.
 
Klopper76 said:
It's really not that bad being a Liverpool fan. I've seen the club win everything apart from the league since I started supporting them, and even then we've come close a couple of times. When you compare our situation to what fans of clubs like Villa, Newcastle, Leeds, West Ham etc go through, I think we're fairly lucky. All of those clubs have fans who show as much passion about their clubs as Liverpool fans do, but their clubs have given them very little back in return.

I do agree that the media gets carried away with Liverpool. Every good bit of form is met with hype and questions about whether we can reach the levels of years gone by again. I suppose it happens when their are so many ex Liverpool players in punditry because they aren't good enough for management.

I don't understand your point about the fans though. What's the point in supporting a team of you can't get excited about anything? It's not every year that most Liverpool fans expect to win the league. At the start of this season you would have been struggling to find one outside of RAWK who genuinely believed we could win it. But surely football would be dull if we're not allowed to get behind the team when they do well?
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Nicely put. And your last sentence is essentially why @Rafateria was getting worked over earlier - which was a bit unfair for me, but there we are.
 
Thisistheone said:
The journo's on Sunday Supplement said they have spoken to 'people in the game' who believe Klopp under-estimated the physicality of a full PL season and thinks by getting his team to out-run the oppositon, every game, for 9 months with no winter break was possible.

But I also think teams now know the best way to counter Klopp. Southampton were the perfect example over the 2 legs in the LC.

Sit Deep
Flood the middle of the pitch
Force Liverpool to cross the ball in
Target set-pieces
Hit them on the break
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It's not even that complicated.

1. Sit deep.
2. Loft the ball in the general direction of Liverpool's goal.
3. ????
4. Goal

His insistance on minimal rotation and waiting very long to make substitutions in games is very frustrating, fair enough the backup players aren't good enough but they should at least bring more energy into the team, and give the more important players some recovery.

With the Europa League next year he's going to need a few players in each area, but he's going to have to balance a budget with improving the first XI as well.
 
Thisistheone said:
The journo's on Sunday Supplement said they have spoken to 'people in the game' who believe Klopp under-estimated the physicality of a full PL season and thinks by getting his team to out-run the oppositon, every game, for 9 months with no winter break was possible.

But I also think teams now know the best way to counter Klopp. Southampton were the perfect example over the 2 legs in the LC.

Sit Deep
Flood the middle of the pitch
Force Liverpool to cross the ball in
Target set-pieces
Hit them on the break
Click to expand...

Also, when breaking - I thought I noticed Southampton preferred to go wide in the first instance - I would imagine to try & avoid the ''it's coming straight back'' problem that can arise from just sitting there.

RAWK have got something on this from Reddit which was quite interesting. I'll try & find it.
 
The magnificence of the 'parking the bus' tactic is a lot over stated though. It shouldn't be that difficult to break it down - inferior teams tend to get beat trying to do it most weekends of the season.

Losing to it cos of the shiteness of your GK & central defence against set pieces is just bad planning really.
 
no, dunno - this is the reddit thread anyway

https://www.reddit.com/r/borussiadortmund/comments/5s2qpy/about_jurgen_klopp/ - LFC asking for the Dortmund view I think

Tactically, someone was saying that Klopp believes you can trample over enough teams by outnumbering them whenever possible in the attacking 1/3 & keeping the defensive line high - counter attacking is difficult if you have good quick defenders who are well organised.

There's a morale / confidence issue too though, imo. If the less good team thinks they might score every time they can break or get a FK or corner, the game is mentally a lot easier to play in that style for the whole 90 minutes.
 
One thing I've noticed about Klopp is, once his team's get stuck in a rut, it often goes on for a considerable amount of time.
Their EPL form for the last 4 months of last season was so bad.
 
montpelier said:
The magnificence of the 'parking the bus' tactic is a lot over stated though. It shouldn't be that difficult to break it down - inferior teams tend to get beat trying to do it most weekends of the season.

Losing to it cos of the shiteness of your GK & central defence against set pieces is just bad planning really.
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True. He's had 18 months to fix the GK and back 4.

And teams also apply 'park the bus' tactics when playing all the big teams. Since Chelsea have turned it around Conte has also faced hurdles, teams sit deep or even try and match Chelsea's formation. It's up to the players and manager to find a solution.

At the moment Klopp seems to be going about things exactly the same week in week out. He needs to show he has the solutions.

If he only really knows one way of playing though, it could end badly for him. At the moment it's still to be proven if his way of playing can be successful in the PL, over a whole season.
 
Transfer committee or not, Liverpool won't be able to attract or outmuscle a number of teams in the signing of top tier players. They will have to hope for the following:

1)The discover a number of gems that the rest of the financial giant's miss
2) Those gems all hit the ground running
3) The top tier players at the rest of the clubs all underperform consistently
4) Said gems don't decide to move to the bigger clubs to get £££ and success

There is no chance any of that is going to happen. Hence the eternal loop of mid-table finishes and the rare challenge they find themselves in...
 
Everything's fine... everything's good. Our form will turn around aannnnny second now. :nervous:
 
EyeInTheSky said:
Transfer committee or not, Liverpool won't be able to attract or outmuscle a number of teams in the signing of top tier players. They will have to hope for the following:

1)The discover a number of gems that the rest of the financial giant's miss
2) Those gems all hit the ground running
3) The top tier players at the rest of the clubs all underperform consistently
4) Said gems don't decide to move to the bigger clubs to get £££ and success

There is no chance any of that is going to happen. Hence the eternal loop of mid-table finishes and the rare challenge they find themselves in...
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Klopp was fortunate in Germany that the only club that could really be considered a bigger draw was Bayern. He was able to pluck a number of players on the cheap from around Germany and a couple of other leagues that all came good, as well as having Gotze come through the academy. I think Subotic, Kagawa, Gundogan, Lewandowski, Hummels and Bender all came in for less than £5 million each.

I think he's attempted to do something similar at Liverpool, with Matip coming in on a free, and Grujic, Klavan and Karius on the cheap, but he's had to splash over £50 million on Wijnaldum and Mane, who have been decent, but are by no means the answer to all of their problems.

As we've seen with Dortmund, as soon as a bigger club comes calling the players move on. Kagawa left, Gundogan left, Gotze left, Hummels left, Lewandowski left, and Mkhitaryan left, and Liverpool face similar problems. Even recently, Suarez and Sterling had break-out seasons and have since left, there are already constant rumours surrounding Coutinho's future at the club, and the same will be true for Firminho and Mane if they continue to perform well.

It's a bit of a catch-22 for them, because they need to keep their best players and add to them to stand a chance of winning titles and qualifying for the CL, but can't hold onto them because they want to go elsewhere to win titles and play in the CL. It's the same problem that plagued Spurs for a number of years, and unless it all clicks at once, will persist.
 
Klopp is a one trick pony, its all champagne and strawberries when the team is fresh and the opposition play in a manner that lets his system work, but in anything other than ideal circumstances it doesnt work, and he has no plan b apart from blaming the wind/United/Refs/Other teams parking the bus/ISIS/Donald Trump and probably back to United again.
 
All the Liverpool fans I know, and I know a lot, believe that success is cyclical. That it's just a matter of time before it's their turn again.

Obviously, it's nonsense, but they believe it.

I think it prevents the club from looking at the real issues, so the only thing that's been truly cyclical is failure (relatively speaking).
 
Badunk said:
All the Liverpool fans I know, and I know a lot, believe that success is cyclical. That it's just a matter of time before it's their turn again.

Obviously, it's nonsense, but they believe it.

I think it prevents the club from looking at the real issues, so the only thing that's been truly cyclical is failure (relatively speaking).
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The next time they say success is cyclical ask them when they think Preston North End's title win is due to come again? They won the first two English league titles in 1888-1890 and haven't done so since....darn cog must be broken in the cycle.
 
Alex99 said:
Klopp was fortunate in Germany that the only club that could really be considered a bigger draw was Bayern. He was able to pluck a number of players on the cheap from around Germany and a couple of other leagues that all came good, as well as having Gotze come through the academy. I think Subotic, Kagawa, Gundogan, Lewandowski, Hummels and Bender all came in for less than £5 million each.

I think he's attempted to do something similar at Liverpool, with Matip coming in on a free, and Grujic, Klavan and Karius on the cheap, but he's had to splash over £50 million on Wijnaldum and Mane, who have been decent, but are by no means the answer to all of their problems.

As we've seen with Dortmund, as soon as a bigger club comes calling the players move on. Kagawa left, Gundogan left, Gotze left, Hummels left, Lewandowski left, and Mkhitaryan left, and Liverpool face similar problems. Even recently, Suarez and Sterling had break-out seasons and have since left, there are already constant rumours surrounding Coutinho's future at the club, and the same will be true for Firminho and Mane if they continue to perform well.

It's a bit of a catch-22 for them, because they need to keep their best players and add to them to stand a chance of winning titles and qualifying for the CL, but can't hold onto them because they want to go elsewhere to win titles and play in the CL. It's the same problem that plagued Spurs for a number of years, and unless it all clicks at once, will persist.
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I think this highlights that we have very little chance of becoming a regularly successful club again if things stay the same.

Chelsea finished 10th last season but still had the resources to get Kante in despite the fact that he had offers coming in all summer. City are similar in that regard in that they can offer huge wages regardless of where they finish this season. Then you've got United who managed to bring in names like Di Maria, Falcao, Ibrahimovic and Pogba with no Champions League football to offer. The pull of the club and financial strength still remains despite the obvious dip post Ferguson.

With us if we don't qualify for the Champions League this season then it's another year added to the growing list of failures since 2009 (the last time we were relevant on the continent). Even if we do qualify, will it make a huge difference to our pulling power in the summer? Probably not because one season means very little, and it doesn't dramatically change our financial power. We'll still be some way behind United, City and Chelsea (probably Arsenal as well).

The only way I can see us becoming successful again is if FSG sell and we bring in someone with money to throw at it like what City have currently. The other possibility is far more unlikely because it relies on Klopp or another manager performing miracles to get us competing via smart signings, that all become incredible players at the same time. This method requires time and a lot of luck. You also have to hope that no one else is getting better results, which is wishful thinking because as mentioned above, most of our competitors have vastly superior finances and can already attract better players.

It's a shame but I just don't see us being successful again for a sustained period if things stay as they are.
 
Klopper76 said:
I think this highlights that we have very little chance of becoming a regularly successful club again if things stay the same.

Chelsea finished 10th last season but still had the resources to get Kante in despite the fact that he had offers coming in all summer. City are similar in that regard in that they can offer huge wages regardless of where they finish this season. Then you've got United who managed to bring in names like Di Maria, Falcao, Ibrahimovic and Pogba with no Champions League football to offer. The pull of the club and financial strength still remains despite the obvious dip post Ferguson.

With us if we don't qualify for the Champions League this season then it's another year added to the growing list of failures since 2009 (the last time we were relevant on the continent). Even if we do qualify, will it make a huge difference to our pulling power in the summer? Probably not because one season means very little, and it doesn't dramatically change our financial power. We'll still be some way behind United, City and Chelsea (probably Arsenal as well).

The only way I can see us becoming successful again is if FSG sell and we bring in someone with money to throw at it like what City have currently. The other possibility is far more unlikely because it relies on Klopp or another manager performing miracles to get us competing via smart signings, that all become incredible players at the same time. This method requires time and a lot of luck. You also have to hope that no one else is getting better results, which is wishful thinking because as mentioned above, most of our competitors have vastly superior finances and can already attract better players.

It's a shame but I just don't see us being successful again for a sustained period if things stay as they are.
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Tottenham have shown how to do it. Great credit to Pochettino.
 
Sparky_Hughes said:
Klopp is a one trick pony, its all champagne and strawberries when the team is fresh and the opposition play in a manner that lets his system work, but in anything other than ideal circumstances it doesnt work, and he has no plan b apart from blaming the wind/United/Refs/Other teams parking the bus/ISIS/Donald Trump and probably back to United again.
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:lol:
 
Klopper76 said:
Yeah I've noticed a similar pattern in the Swansea, Wolves and Hull games. Chelsea is another example but they weren't as clinical on the counter.
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Chelsea didn't have good games by hazard and willian. They also wanted to try and play from the back some more. And above all,they were chelsea. The level of focus and attention on your part was far greater than normal(aside from migs on the goal :lol:). You were playing more cautious in the first half because you were afraid of them on the counter. In the second half, you just threw the kichen sink at them and it worked. Against the weaker teams, you either go into the game too soft, or you go in kamikaze from the get-go. Your biggest problem is mental
 
Klopp is doing a good job for Liverpool.

The problem is (and will always be when Liverpool are involved) fan expectation went through the roof when they started off far better than expected. They were dominating teams, beating many of the title favourites and look like title contenders. But this is the problem, they were never title contenders. Fan expectation went from a top 4 finish to hopes of winning the league. It was clear that Mignolet and their defence was a problem all last season but Klopp decided to strengthen their attack. Yes they got Matip but Karius is worse than Mignolet and they are still using Milner at LB. There is literally no squad depth which has cost them since January. I was amazed they did not try to sign anyone in January.

In my opinion if they finish in the top 4 and get champions league football next season this is surely a successful season for them compared to recent seasons. Hopefully though they finish 5th, get Europa League and the cycle will continue next season.
 
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ivaldo said:
I love it, the boom is so brief too. Like a bird leaping from a mountain face, brimming with pleasure as soft winds tousle it's feathers. Then it remembers it's an ostrich.
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:lol::lol: Amazing, just here sitting at my desk laughing to myself with my coworkers looking at me weirdly! :lol::lol:
 
ivaldo said:
I love it, the boom is so brief too. Like a bird leaping from a mountain face, brimming with pleasure as soft winds tousle it's feathers. Then it remembers it's an ostrich.
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Hehe, lovely mental image :D
 
Josep Dowling said:
Klopp is doing a good job for Liverpool.

The problem is (and will always be when Liverpool are involved) fan expectation went through the roof when they started off far better than expected. They were dominating teams, beating many of the title favourites and look like title contenders. But this is the problem, they were never title contenders. Fan expectation went from a top 4 finish to hopes of winning the league. It was clear that Mignolet and their defence was a problem all last season but Klopp decided to strengthen their attack. Yes they got Matip but Karius is worse than Mignolet and they are still using Milner at LB. There is literally no squad depth which has cost them since January. I was amazed they did not try to sign anyone in January.

In my opinion if they finish in the top 4 and get champions league football next season this is surely a successful season for them compared to recent seasons. Hopefully though they finish 5th, get Europa League and the cycle will continue next season.
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He bought potential in Karius who is potentially a better keeper than Mignolet. It could work out for Liverpool but only by next season at the earliest.

I hope Klopp sorts it out as he's a boost for the PL, but can't escape impression he runs players into the ground before Christmas and then doesn't have squad to cope.
 
giorno said:
Nah, you guys have made @Rafateria into your "deluded liverpool fan" because he's very defensive of his opinions and has a more optimistic view of things. And because you guys desperately want a RAWK-ish poster you can rip into, and he's the closest thing you've got, even though he's pretty level-headed and realistic in his opinions. He's a good poster
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Cheers ! And also to @montpelier who rips into me (and Liverpool) on occasion but is a really sound poster.
 
Klopp is a strange one, when he has his team buzzing they can destroy anyone. Dortmunds demolition of Real Madrid a few years ago was evident of this, of course they then resumed their customary subservient role for Bayern in the final. I think he is a top coach but definitely has flaws, especially with his system, his fall at BvB cant be ignored either.

You also have to admit FSG dont help him with the lower level of investment/moneyball bollocks.
 
Cantona_Forever said:
Where is @Rafateria - the Glaston of Liverpool fan? Haven't seen him here since yesterday? Maybe the weather at Shanghai not good? :lol:
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Ramshock said:
:lol: crisis yet?
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SirScholes said:
@Rafateria as we were saying ha
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I'm not including @Peanut Butter in the quotes because he is simply a childish WUM. With the emphasis on childish. Needs to grow up.

Anyway BLOODY HELL ! Believe this if you like, I'm working on my new website and it's proving to be a labour of love. I know nothing of coding CSS and weeding out the gremlins is a right pain but overall I'm loving it and it's coming along nicely, just need to finish tidying it up and then begin to populate it.

Anyway what all that means is that I missed the match and when I checked on the Chinese TV that shows all the games they gave the score as 'Hull 0 Liverpool 2' (it's still up as far as I know so if anyone needs the proof ....). OK back to form/normal, so I sat down to watch the recording .. and then Hull scored the cheeky buggers. WTF ? That Chinese TV channel must be United supporters on a wind-up.

I expected a lot more than just the 9 posts ripping into me but hey maybe you are more fair-minded than I gave you credit for.

Crisis - looking like it, isn't it. I'll wait until after the Spurs game to call it though because there should be no excuses re. just returned from injury / AFCOn or whatever. Full strength and fully rested.
 
Dumbstar said:
Rafa I'm not bringing this post up now to antagonise as we're both in the same boat with holes in. But I wanted to wait until all the players were back and you could see the evidence for yourself. I'm no apologist, that bit you're right about. I've proudly been a pain in Utd fans backsides for a decade and a half and I'm not softening now.

The players we have are not as great as our fans make them out to be. Klopp makes them into 9 out of ten shags but in the morning when the make up is off you're left with a 5 or 6 out of ten minger spooning you. That is the magic of Klopp's potion.

FWIW Klopp will replenish that potion and ensure we finish top 4 but we should never forget that moment we woke up sober. We need some serious first teamers in the summer so the likes of Lovren, Firmino, Lallana, Clyne, Weeji and Milner are bench players for cups and Europe only. Obviously sacking the likes of Studge, Klavan, Lucas, Can, Ings.

That's a huge swing of players and the bare minimum to achieve that we'll need to dangle the CL carrot (as mentioned above we should achieve that with the remaining magic dust in Klopp's satchel this season).
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Sorry but you waited a week to reply .. and if the result had been different you wouldn't have replied at all. WTF is that ?

That result is on Klopp : playing Lucas, Moreno (as sub) and Can FFS. Mignolet is gone so now Karius can sink or swim but play him for the rest of the season, then at least we'll know for sure if we need one or two new keepers.
 
Dont worry guys, when the easier fixture list kicks in then Liverpool will be marching on again...
 
Rafateria said:
Crisis - looking like it, isn't it. I'll wait until after the Spurs game to call it though because there should be no excuses re. just returned from injury / AFCOn or whatever. Full strength and fully rested.
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Oh come on. Fruitinho returned from injury like a month a go and Mane was ready to start Chelsea game. You're in a crisis and the Crazy McCrazyface has no clue what to do about it.
 
Rafateria said:
I'm not including @Peanut ButterCrisis - looking like it, isn't it. I'll wait until after the Spurs game to call it though because there should be no excuses re. just returned from injury / AFCOn or whatever. Full strength and fully rested.
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Thing is, we could beat Spurs and then lose to Leicester. That seems to be the way it's going at the moment.

That 'easier' run of nine games to finish the season looks very difficult all of a sudden. Banana skins everywhere.
 
@Rafateria

I'm not a WUM in any way. You just seem to get annoyed with anyone who challenges you when it comes to Klopp and Liverpool.

When I was in the newbies reading the mains, you struck me as someone who likes to have an argument.

I have nothing against you and apologies if I have upset you or got on your nerves in any way.

:)
 
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