I don't think they have that committee anymore
Jurgen Klopp Sack Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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I think Klopp got a lot of their players to perform to the peak of their powers at the same time for the first half of the season. That's not easily achievable and probably not sustainable throughout a season. You'll need a collection of quality players with the right mentality, so that you win matches through sheer quality even when the team is playing badly.
Their squad is thin and there are players there that shouldn't play in a team chasing the title. I'd be surprised if they miss out on the top four if you had told me that a month ago, but looking at it now - who else is dropping out? I can't see Spurs or Chelsea collapse and we're looking reasonably healthy. So that leaves City and Arsenal as the question marks, both with significantly better squads than Liverpool.
No Europe is a slight advantage for them though.
Their squad is thin and there are players there that shouldn't play in a team chasing the title. I'd be surprised if they miss out on the top four if you had told me that a month ago, but looking at it now - who else is dropping out? I can't see Spurs or Chelsea collapse and we're looking reasonably healthy. So that leaves City and Arsenal as the question marks, both with significantly better squads than Liverpool.
No Europe is a slight advantage for them though.
Really? Haven't read/heard anything to say otherwise.
Because that would mean Klopp's transfer business last summer was entirely his own? Yikes.
Mane was his signing, the committee signed the rest.
With his approval. Liverpool's transfer committee isn't some nebulous, nepharious group actively working to undermine their manager, you know. Outside of british football, it's normal for clubs to have a director of football or general manager who oversees transfer decisions, with the manager sometimes not even being made part of the process
Klopp get's final yes/no on everything was what they were saying. Committee peruses the Footy Manager database & can make recommendations or something.
I wasn't being serious.
Congrats to Matip for winning AFCON with Cameroon.
Liverpool should get back to winning ways with Matip and Mane back and available for the next game.
Liverpool should get back to winning ways with Matip and Mane back and available for the next game.
But the objectives and criteria of that of the transfer committee aren't entirely aligned with that of the manager - be it Rodgers or Klopp.
I find it very difficult to believe Klopp wasn't operating under very stringent restrictions and indeed that in each instance he secured his first choice signing. More likely the second or third choices.
If I recall correctly, it was the makeup of the committee that was questioned. As in, they're not best placed to make recommendations on the playing staff.
Matip did not go.
after he refused their offer they went ahead and used the strategy. They ended a 60 year (or something stupid like that) wait for a world series using it.
That was the joke..
Completely agree, which is why if they are its not working. But you have to admit, their signings look like they are, average players at a good price with stats that make them look like good value for money. Firmino is the archetype "championship manager" signing based on his stats in the game sure. He owes his career to that game!
I did not get it.
As much as the resident scousers like to remind us that the aim for this season was top 4 and they're still in the fight for that, after 20 games of this campaign they were 5 points off top and 2nd in the league. Now, just 4 games later, they're 13 points off top and lying in 5th, with no wins in their last 5 league games and just 1 in their last 10 in all competitions, having been knocked out of both cups.
Rodgers was replaced by Klopp in October 2015 because the owners were worried CL qualification would get away from Liverpool for a second successive season by keeping him on. As it transpired, they failed to qualify for Europe at all by finishing 8th, two positions lower than Rodgers finished in 14/15, but this was glossed over because they reached two cup finals (and lost).
After beating City on New Years Eve, there was no looking over the shoulder at them, Spurs and Arsenal, never mind United in 6th, and the focus was on keeping pace with Chelsea. After Chelsea lost to Spurs, Liverpool actually gained ground despite drawing with Sunderland, yet now find themselves plummeting down the table, with only 6 teams performing worse than them over the last 6 games (Sunderland, Bournemouth, Leicester, Middlesbrough, Southampton and Palace).
When Liverpool underperformed in the league last season it was because Klopp needed a proper transfer window and because the players were focused on the Europa League, which they lost. When Liverpool got knocked out of the cups this season it was because they were concentrating on the league, which they've not won a game in since 2016. Now Liverpool are struggling in the league, it's because Klopp, despite having three transfer windows now, still hasn't yet been able to bring in who he needs to add appropriate depth to the squad and because like, two players were unavailable for a bit in January. Despite moaning about a lack of depth, the squad doesn't have depth because Klopp allowed 16 players to leave on a permanent basis, with a further 13 leaving on loan, with only 6 coming in, 2 of which were keepers that are being kept out of the team by the old keeper that one was brought in to replace. Furthermore, it's been apparent for a good 3 seasons that Liverpool's defence needs work, so obviously this was rectified by bringing in 2 defenders, one of which is a 31-year-old journeyman, and letting 7 senior defenders leave, forcing Klopp to play Milner as a left-back and Lucas as a centre-back.
But it's not Klopp that's the problem, it's injuries, or international tournaments, or not having a big squad because of a lack of games, or not having a big squad because of too many games, or the population of Plymouth, or United even when they aren't playing United, or the wind.
Rodgers was replaced by Klopp in October 2015 because the owners were worried CL qualification would get away from Liverpool for a second successive season by keeping him on. As it transpired, they failed to qualify for Europe at all by finishing 8th, two positions lower than Rodgers finished in 14/15, but this was glossed over because they reached two cup finals (and lost).
After beating City on New Years Eve, there was no looking over the shoulder at them, Spurs and Arsenal, never mind United in 6th, and the focus was on keeping pace with Chelsea. After Chelsea lost to Spurs, Liverpool actually gained ground despite drawing with Sunderland, yet now find themselves plummeting down the table, with only 6 teams performing worse than them over the last 6 games (Sunderland, Bournemouth, Leicester, Middlesbrough, Southampton and Palace).
When Liverpool underperformed in the league last season it was because Klopp needed a proper transfer window and because the players were focused on the Europa League, which they lost. When Liverpool got knocked out of the cups this season it was because they were concentrating on the league, which they've not won a game in since 2016. Now Liverpool are struggling in the league, it's because Klopp, despite having three transfer windows now, still hasn't yet been able to bring in who he needs to add appropriate depth to the squad and because like, two players were unavailable for a bit in January. Despite moaning about a lack of depth, the squad doesn't have depth because Klopp allowed 16 players to leave on a permanent basis, with a further 13 leaving on loan, with only 6 coming in, 2 of which were keepers that are being kept out of the team by the old keeper that one was brought in to replace. Furthermore, it's been apparent for a good 3 seasons that Liverpool's defence needs work, so obviously this was rectified by bringing in 2 defenders, one of which is a 31-year-old journeyman, and letting 7 senior defenders leave, forcing Klopp to play Milner as a left-back and Lucas as a centre-back.
But it's not Klopp that's the problem, it's injuries, or international tournaments, or not having a big squad because of a lack of games, or not having a big squad because of too many games, or the population of Plymouth, or United even when they aren't playing United, or the wind.
And they spent a ton of money in doing so. FSG has always had the Red Sox among the biggest spenders in the entire league. Maybe their model for Liverpool is different, but IMO their transfer spending last summer has more to do with Klopp than them being tight with finances.
I'll throw in that if they hadn't bought quite so much shite they very probably wouldn't be quite so short of quality back-ups - they'd have a better squad. For a number of reasons.
In contrast, with nearly twice the turnover is it? Utd can much more afford 'occasional' transfer mistakes - still messes your squad up though, doesn't it?
Players kept on too long, they are reluctant to leave for lower wages & so on.
I mean, LFC effectively haven't had a decent GK since 2 seasons before Reina left. Why is Moreno the cover at LB? - behind a (good imo, tbf) makeshift 1st choice.
In contrast, with nearly twice the turnover is it? Utd can much more afford 'occasional' transfer mistakes - still messes your squad up though, doesn't it?
Players kept on too long, they are reluctant to leave for lower wages & so on.
I mean, LFC effectively haven't had a decent GK since 2 seasons before Reina left. Why is Moreno the cover at LB? - behind a (good imo, tbf) makeshift 1st choice.
Shame i cant post images but a Nigel Pearson smug face is worthy of this post.
The problem with Liverpool and their fans is that, since Benitez, they deify any manager that comes in (Hodgson notwithstanding) before he's even done anything of note, and up until the point that it seems to click en masse that they aren't the second coming they blame everything and everyone under the sun for any failings, be it referees, the owners, a transfer committee, FIFA, the FA, UEFA, or a few scapegoat players. Benitez came in, somehow won a CL and an FA Cup, then was shite for the remainder of his tenure aside from a tilt at the title for one season in 08/09, but was seen as some sort of footballing genius for pretty much his entire time there, with it being the owners fault that it all went tits up.
Hodgson came in but the fans were still mourning the loss of the waiter and didn't give him a chance. The new owner wasn't blamed initially despite giving Hodgson about 50p to spend on improving the squad, so he inevitably got sacked and the new new owners appointed Dalglish, and in a nostalgia fuelled frenzy he was going to bring back the glory days. One racism scandal and a cup win later and Liverpool find themselves equalling their lowest ever Premier League finish so Dalglish gets the boot and young, enthusiastic Brendan Rodgers is brought in to bring some much needed character to the side. His first season was a bit lacklustre but after almost accidentally winning the title in his second he was the new Shankly and was going to bring back the glory days. Then he rested his players in the Champions League so he could concentrate on trying to qualify for the Champions League, didn't qualify for the Champions League, signed Danny Ings for some reason, and got sacked when it looked like he probably wasn't going to qualify for the Champions League again. Now Klopp's here, and in his first season he took inspiration from Dalglish and became the third manager to finish 8th with Liverpool in the Premier League. All was not lost though because he had a transfer window ahead of him and would build on his two failed cup finals to bring back the glory days. Things were looking rosy as Liverpool sat in 2nd at the midpoint of the season after coming through the Christmas fixtures largely unscathed, with a semi-final ahead of them and the FA Cup yet to begin, yet now they're in no cups and sat in 5th having not won a single game in their last 10 matches.
Hodgson came in but the fans were still mourning the loss of the waiter and didn't give him a chance. The new owner wasn't blamed initially despite giving Hodgson about 50p to spend on improving the squad, so he inevitably got sacked and the new new owners appointed Dalglish, and in a nostalgia fuelled frenzy he was going to bring back the glory days. One racism scandal and a cup win later and Liverpool find themselves equalling their lowest ever Premier League finish so Dalglish gets the boot and young, enthusiastic Brendan Rodgers is brought in to bring some much needed character to the side. His first season was a bit lacklustre but after almost accidentally winning the title in his second he was the new Shankly and was going to bring back the glory days. Then he rested his players in the Champions League so he could concentrate on trying to qualify for the Champions League, didn't qualify for the Champions League, signed Danny Ings for some reason, and got sacked when it looked like he probably wasn't going to qualify for the Champions League again. Now Klopp's here, and in his first season he took inspiration from Dalglish and became the third manager to finish 8th with Liverpool in the Premier League. All was not lost though because he had a transfer window ahead of him and would build on his two failed cup finals to bring back the glory days. Things were looking rosy as Liverpool sat in 2nd at the midpoint of the season after coming through the Christmas fixtures largely unscathed, with a semi-final ahead of them and the FA Cup yet to begin, yet now they're in no cups and sat in 5th having not won a single game in their last 10 matches.
Whilst I do think that you make a lot of very good points, are you suggesting that Klopp's position as manager should be under threat? If so then who should replace him? Is there a manager out there right now who could do a better job with what we have?
I also think it's worth pointing out that our points tally at this stage is still very good for Liverpool in the Premier League era. Obviously it means nothing if we finish outside the top four but what if we do finish in a Champions League place, and Mourinho, Pochettino, Wenger and Guardiola all end up without a trophy and two of them outside the top four (still possible at this stage)? Klopp can still end the season stongly. We're a bit unlucky that there are five sides up there with us and this might be the most competitive race for the top four that there's ever been. In years gone by we might've found ourselves sitting comfortably in the top four with our current points tally at this stage.
Regarding players sold, how many of those would make a difference right now? Other than being additional numbers I don't think any of them would improve the squad (apart from Joe Allen arguably). I think you're harsh on Milner as well. He's had a very good season at LB.
I do think that it's a valid criticism that the defence is still rubbish. Ignoring the fact that neither keeper is good enough (one being a keeper signed by Klopp, and the other being one given a five year contract), that doesn't excuse Klopp from his responsibility to sort out an issue that has troubled us since 2012. Watching Southampton, Wolves, Swansea and Hull score against us on the counter has been infuriating. How hard is it to see that it keeps happening over and over again? He also needs to come up with an answer to packed defences because plan A stopped working weeks ago.
I think there's a lot of fair criticism being thrown at Klopp and he needs to come up with an answer quickly, but we can still have what I would call an acceptable season. Two months ago United were being written off as far as top four was concerned and now look at them. Two months from now we might be in second and looking good again. We'll see if it all changes again as the season rolls on.
What I will say is that if we end up outside the top four at the end of the season, I still won't want him sacked. The season will be seen as a failure and rightly so, but I just don't see the point in going through the whole changing manager routine again.
Never mind the username change.
Eh ?
My point is ... I really don't give a shit .
Meaning -
I've more important things to give a shit about .
Of course I want my local team to do well , it's in my blood and always will be ... but like I said before I have stopped giving my energies to external things that control my emotions a long time ago.
But... saying that ..
I didn't want to mention it, but yes that's a concern.
very enjoyable read
Their two best games came against us and Chelsea. They are the definition of game raising cnuts.
that is pretty grim
only 8 goals scored - think about the rate of scoring earlier
only 2 clean sheets - Plymouth & Plymouth
In a word, yes. He didn't do the job he was brought in to do last season, and it's looking increasingly likely that he could fail to do it again this season. Why he was given a 6 year contract extension is utterly baffling. I'm not sure who you'd bring in, and I'm not suggesting he goes before the end of the season, but should you fail to finish in the top 4 with no European football and two disappointing cup exits, and one of the poorest runs of form you've seen in years, you have to question if he's up to the job.
Points tallies mean feck all and fluctuate season to season. I said this to a bunch of your lot and the blue half of Merseyside in 13/14 but it fell on deaf ears. The strength of the league changes, and it's evident this year that the top 6 is clearly stronger than the rest, whilst in previous seasons it's been much closer so more points have been dropped. Position is all that matters, and currently you're sliding down the table and find yourselves in 5th.
If you finish in the top 4 and we end up outside of it with no silverware then I'll be critical of Mourinho but willing to give him the summer and the beginning of next season. My expectations will again be for us to challenge for the title and on all fronts. If it looks like we won't make it, he can go. I imagine the same will go for the other managers you named.
I'd argue that Skrtel, Allen, Benteke, Ibe and Sakho could all have been useful this season. Klopp's problem is that he wants to play his way, and as we've found out recently, his ability to adapt tactically is lacking, partially because he bins any player that doesn't fit his one preferred system.
My personal rose-tinted viewpoint is that you're going to finish 6th, which admittedly is in part due to my unwillingness to accept you might finish ahead of us, and also because I think of the 5 clubs fighting for the 3 remaining top 4 spaces, I view United and Liverpool as the most likely to miss out. I hope United can do enough to claw their way back in, but I look at some of our games and just expect us to drop points that we desperately need.
I get the reluctance to change managers, but at the end of the day he was brought in to get you back into the top 4 in the season he was hired in. He failed to do that (and equalled the record for your lowest PL finish) but it was glossed over because you reached a couple of cup finals, albeit unsuccessfully. The target would remain the same this season, and shifted to something more when you found yourselves in 2nd and 5 points off Chelsea. If you finish 5th or 6th, I don't think there could be any real complaints if he were to be replaced.
Half of me wants him to get replaced by Gerrard because I think he'll be a shite manager, and half of me is terrified that, despite all logic and rational thought saying otherwise, Gerrard would end up guiding you to a title.
That's a great post.
Still 14 matches to go. Any of the 6 teams can finish in the top 4.
But if Klopp fails this season he will still be given funds to strengthen next season. If he fails again next season and does not win any of the cups, then I think he will be gone.
But if Klopp fails this season he will still be given funds to strengthen next season. If he fails again next season and does not win any of the cups, then I think he will be gone.
Brilliant, well said. As you mentioned, the psycho has had 3 transfer windows. He hose to get rid of players such as Allen, Benteke and Sakho who surely would have added some value to his squad.
Instead he's chosen to chop and change his side, play players out of position and not address his defensive frailties.
This is his squad and he's self inflicted some of his problems.
Username change?
Klopper.
Is this real?
The difference between a decent player and a great player is consistency. All the Liverpool players have had purple patches where they look great, but they can't do it over a season or over a number of seasons. They fill their squad with mediocrity, and when they play well, hugely overrate them. Then, when they inevitably dip in form, their weaknesses are glaringly exposed.
The answer for them is to buy players who have done the business consistently. But, they aren't cheap, so I think they'll continue to buy the ones that can perform at a higher level sometimes, in the hope that they can add that consistency to their game. But leopards rarely change their spots, so the cycle is doomed to repeat. Which is why many United fans, while impressed with the early season form of Liverpool, thought it was just a matter of time before the wheels fell off.
The answer for them is to buy players who have done the business consistently. But, they aren't cheap, so I think they'll continue to buy the ones that can perform at a higher level sometimes, in the hope that they can add that consistency to their game. But leopards rarely change their spots, so the cycle is doomed to repeat. Which is why many United fans, while impressed with the early season form of Liverpool, thought it was just a matter of time before the wheels fell off.
I think it's easy to say they've peaked but they'll be back to 1 game a week from now with no cup comps. and with Mane and Couthino back I wouldn't be surprised in the next couple of weeks if they're back to dominating teams.
Only takes one or two decent results to get confidence back, next 3 games are absolutely crucial for them, Spurs, Leicester and Arsenal with both Spurs and Arse at home, if they can get 5 or 6 points out of that lot they'll be well placed for top 4
Only takes one or two decent results to get confidence back, next 3 games are absolutely crucial for them, Spurs, Leicester and Arsenal with both Spurs and Arse at home, if they can get 5 or 6 points out of that lot they'll be well placed for top 4
I'd consider myself a mature, professional guy - so I don't want this to sound bizarrely sweeping.
But there is something inearth in anybody associated with Liverpool, there's a really bizarre delusion that because they were hip in the 80s, their time will come again soon. All LFC fans seem to have this strange chip on their shoulder and they get carried away by a little uplift in form. You can see it in ex-players too when they are acting as pundits, the likes of Houghton, Aldridge is a very odd one, Phil Thompson etc, they get too giddy when the team has a short run of wins. So their fans, their ex-players and now their board members all seem to have the same rush of blood to the head which is the reason boom boost cycles appear. It must be absolutely soul-destroying to be a fan or member of Liverpool - the amount of false dawns they set themselves up for is so crazy. And the strangest thing is; they NEVER learn.
They must be brain drained from all the disappointments they go through on an annual basis.
The facts remain that Liverpool have won 1 trophy (a League Cup) in the past 11 seasons and in the past 8 seasons they have finished 7th, 6th, 8th, 7th, 2nd, 6th, 8th and look most likely to finish 6th again this year.
Where do they get their positivity from? It's so strange.
Yeah, I ponder that too when not outright just taking the piss, (for the sake of it). Even by their (or any) standards though, Thommo & Aldo are a ferocious pair of bell-ends.
You either say, ''oh no, it's the same anywhere'' or go back to that they still retain (or like to think they do) some degree of the original football team as representing the working class community thing.