Jurgen Klopp and Dortmund

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Sweet Square said:
Didn't he get his previous team relegated as well. This is odd for a team like Dortmund but not for a manager like Klopp(Who seems to be a manager of extremes highs but also extremes low as well.)
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He is maybe the young Zeman, great football with sometimes great success but terrible performances when everyone is not on board.

For me the main problem is the loss of Lewandowski, people don't realize how important he was for Dortmund, in the pressing, in the counter attacking and he was a constant threat, they also missed Kuba, badly.
 
Really sad thing to see. I thought that they'd get their shit together after the winter break but it seems that they didn't, a draw to Leverkusen and now a loss against Augsburg don't bode well at all.
 
Sweet Square said:
Didn't he get his previous team relegated as well. This is odd for a team like Dortmund but not for a manager like Kloop(Who seems to be a manager of extremes highs but also extremes low as well.)
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He took over at Mainz when they were fighting against relegation in the 2nd Bundesliga and he turned them into a challenger for promotion to the 1st Bundesliga and actually lead them into the 1st Bundesliga for the first time in the history of the club. After 3 years with limited funds, they got relegated, he stayed for one more season and finished 4th, missing out on promotion by just one place. Then he left for Dortmund.

Despite the team getting relegated in the end, he laid the foundation for the club Mainz is today and it isn't really comparable with the awful season Dortmund are having now. I wouldn't say there were any extreme lows during his time at Mainz at all.
 
luckyspurs said:
Lets be honest, Spurs, Atletico and almost every other club outside of a select 6 or 7 are in that same boat and either sold as many or in some cases more world class level players, or just didn't have them to begin with. Dortmund sold (or lost) Gotze and Lewandowski, we sold Modric and Bale and Atletico sold Costa and Falcao.

Dortmund have spent the second most of any German team (including Wolfsburg), at over £100m in just 2 years, replacing and replenishing their stocks. Spurs trail about 6th for spending as far as English clubs go, with £140m in 2 years.

Nobody gives Spurs those excuses. If we slip to anything like Dortmund's level this season, Pochettino and Levy would be savaged on here for incompetence. Dropping to 18th (last) simply can't be excused by losing Gotze and Lewandowski and almost nothing else. Almost every other star player remains or remained at the club, including Reus and Hummels (despite injuries).

In a 34 game season, guys of varying levels like Sherwood, AVB, Redknapp and Pochettino could get 60 points almost without fail. Klopp's on course for less than 30 if this season finishes as it's started.
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I really don't care about Spurs. I wish you'd stop wittering on about them.
 
I figured this would be a situation where they eventually turn it around but now I think they may actually be relegated. Might be time for Klopp to go too. Not because I don't think he is a good manager, I do, but they need a fresh perspective.
 
luckyspurs said:
Lets be honest, Spurs, Atletico and almost every other club outside of a select 6 or 7 are in that same boat and either sold as many or in some cases more world class level players, or just didn't have them to begin with. Dortmund sold (or lost) Gotze and Lewandowski, we sold Modric and Bale and Atletico sold Costa and Falcao.

Dortmund have spent the second most of any German team (including Wolfsburg), at over £100m in just 2 years, replacing and replenishing their stocks. Spurs trail about 6th for spending as far as English clubs go, with £140m in 2 years.

Nobody gives Spurs those excuses. If we slip to anything like Dortmund's level this season, Pochettino and Levy would be savaged on here for incompetence. Dropping to 18th (last) simply can't be excused by losing Gotze and Lewandowski and almost nothing else. Almost every other star player remains or remained at the club, including Reus and Hummels (despite injuries).

In a 34 game season, guys of varying levels like Sherwood, AVB, Redknapp and Pochettino could get 60 points almost without fail. Klopp's on course for less than 30 if this season finishes as it's started.
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Arghh ... essays everywhere about Spurs, who cares that much on a United Forum in non-Spurs threads???
 
JPRouve said:
He is maybe the young Zeman, great football with sometimes great success but terrible performances when everyone is not on board.

For me the main problem is the loss of Lewandowski, people don't realize how important he was for Dortmund, in the pressing, in the counter attacking and he was a constant threat, they also missed Kuba, badly.
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He was in a strange position in that he had to effectively lose his best players yearly to a direct competitor. This high was never going to last but in no way should it have gotten this bad.

Balu said:
He took over at Mainz when they were fighting against relegation in the 2nd Bundesliga and he turned them into a challenger for promotion to the 1st Bundesliga and actually lead them into the 1st Bundesliga for the first time in the history of the club. After 3 years with limited funds, they got relegated, he stayed for one more season and finished 4th, missing out on promotion by just one place. Then he left for Dortmund.

Despite the team getting relegated in the end, he laid the foundation for the club Mainz is today and it isn't really comparable with the awful season Dortmund are having now. I wouldn't say there were any extreme lows during his time at Mainz at all.
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Fair enough. My knowledge on Klopp is pretty limited. Although I would still class getting a team relegated as a extreme low.
 
In the discussion after the Leverkusen game an interesting point was brought up. Dortmund still plays as they would be in the top 3 and favorite against nearly any other team. Much pressing high up the pitch. Too weak in the defense.
They should start to play like a team being last and fighting against relegation.
 
Up until winter break, I really thought their struggle was a temporary thing and they would finish the season comfortably between table spot 3 and 7 at least.

What I now see is worrying. They say they know they fight relegation, but their performance on the pitch says otherwise.

They lack the proper tactics to win dirty points, but more importantly they lack the mindset.
 
Cnaiür urs Skiötha said:
They should start to play like a team being last and fighting against relegation.
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You can't do that, It's like Lens, Monaco or Auxerre in ligue 1, their players are supposed to play at the top of the league, their technical and mental characteristics are in accordance with that, they are not grafters.

When a big team is in this situation, they go down.
 
Watched Dormund last night, that was maybe the 5th game Ive see in the league this season. So hard to evaluate what's going on.

In none of the games Ive seen could you say they were totally abject. They still move the ball well in the middle, and they're not even that awful in defense. Rather its like they just cannot put away chances, but then make one mistake in defense and lose a goal.

If you saw last night's game and didn't know what else had happened this season, you'd just say it was a bad at the office. They could easily have scored with slightly better finishing, they had plenty of good moments. But there have been so many bad days at the office that I dont think you can write it off as just one of those things any more.

It could just be a spiral of low confidence, but I dont ever recall seeing such a dramatic fall from grace in any league before.
 
In this situation David Moyes would be the perfect match for Dortmund, would make them difficult to beat.
 
bishblaize said:
Watched Dormund last night, that was maybe the 5th game Ive see in the league this season. So hard to evaluate what's going on.

In none of the games Ive seen could you say they were totally abject. They still move the ball well in the middle, and they're not even that awful in defense. Rather its like they just cannot put away chances, but then make one mistake in defense and lose a goal.

If you saw last night's game and didn't know what else had happened this season, you'd just say it was a bad at the office. They could easily have scored with slightly better finishing, they had plenty of good moments. But there have been so many bad days at the office that I dont think you can write it off as just one of those things any more.

It could just be a spiral of low confidence, but I dont ever recall seeing such a dramatic fall from grace in any league before.
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Norwich is one....But not as bad as this
 
bishblaize said:
Watched Dormund last night, that was maybe the 5th game Ive see in the league this season. So hard to evaluate what's going on.

In none of the games Ive seen could you say they were totally abject. They still move the ball well in the middle, and they're not even that awful in defense. Rather its like they just cannot put away chances, but then make one mistake in defense and lose a goal.

If you saw last night's game and didn't know what else had happened this season, you'd just say it was a bad at the office. They could easily have scored with slightly better finishing, they had plenty of good moments. But there have been so many bad days at the office that I dont think you can write it off as just one of those things any more.

It could just be a spiral of low confidence, but I dont ever recall seeing such a dramatic fall from grace in any league before.
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Like I said Lens, Auxerre and Monaco experienced the same thing, and in Rugby in the past 3 seasons Biarritz, Perpignan and this season Castres( Who were Top14 finalist last season and champions in 2013)
 
It's like a completely ridiculous save on Football Manager where you curse at the game week in and week out for being absolutely unrealistic. Klopp must be looking feverishly for the "Quit without saving" button.
 
UweBein said:
In this situation David Moyes would be the perfect match for Dortmund, would make them difficult to beat.
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:lol: I dislike Moyes and I rate Klopp pretty highly, but I'd actually back Moyes over Klopp to help Dortmund survive relegation
 
.Rossi said:
Norwich is one....But not as bad as this
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Leeds finished 2 points above relegation in 17th the year after they won the last top flight first division title. I wonder if Dortmund can better that?
 
Bill.s.preston said:
Leeds finished 2 points above relegation in 17th the year after they won the last top flight first division title. I wonder if Dortmund can better that?
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Nürnberg got relegated the season after they last won the league. Not sure if any other league winner ever did equally bad?
 
Bill.s.preston said:
Leeds finished 2 points above relegation in 17th the year after they won the last top flight first division title. I wonder if Dortmund can better that?
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How many teams get relegated from the Bundesliga? 17th in an 18 team league could result in relegation.
 
Mitchell Nicholas said:
How many teams get relegated from the Bundesliga? 17th in an 18 team league could result in relegation.
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That's a good point, maybe it should only be judged in terms of points above relegation, rather than position. Back then the top league in England had 22 teams.
 
Didnt the legendary Beckenbeur side win the league one year and fight relegation the next? I think it was a season after Germany won the World Cup.
Very rare for Modern football tho
 
dropping from a title challenger to a 6th or 7th place is not unusual. but falling into to a real relegation battle is a bit too far. i only managed to watch maybe once or twice in the early season time when they were still being okay. what happened to them actually in pure football terms? can anyone fill me in please

just looking at it from a bigger picture, the first mistake they made was how did they handle the lewi departure. is not about to lose him to their arch rival, but they are not brutal enough to take initiative to sell him out earlier and move on from there. it hurts the club, especially those left behind would feel this is an inferior club to play with. the second mistake was in the early season time he talked openly about a move to premier league. he should keep it himself and never make it public. it hurts the club also.

despite all these, klopp is no doubt a charming football manager. but i agree some comments he has lost out his thought about the current situation though, based on several pictures of him i observed in media
 
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Bill.s.preston said:
Was that in relatively recent times Balu?
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No of course not, it was in the late 60's ;). It should be impossible in modern times because of the financial gap between top teams and small teams in all the leagues in Europe along with bigger squads that make the teams less vulnerable to injuries. Dortmund are trying to prove that wrong though.
 
Balu said:
No of course not, it was in the late 60's ;). It should be impossible in modern times because of the financial gap between top teams and small teams in all the leagues in Europe along with bigger squads that make the teams less vulnerable to injuries. Dortmund are trying to prove that wrong though.
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What's the go with relegation in the Bundesliga? How many teams go down each season?
 
Mitchell Nicholas said:
What's the go with relegation in the Bundesliga? How many teams go down each season?
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18th and 17th go down directly, the 16th placed team plays a two legged relegation play-off tie against the 3rd placed team from the 2nd Bundesliga.
 
Balu said:
No of course not, it was in the late 60's ;). It should be impossible in modern times because of the financial gap between top teams and small teams in all the leagues in Europe along with bigger squads that make the teams less vulnerable to injuries. Dortmund are trying to prove that wrong though.
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Possibly won't happen now due to FFP, but Leeds managed to go from Champions League semi finalists to dropping 2 divisions, largely due to financially overstretching themselves in the early 2000's and having to sell their best players. They've not been back to the premiership since.
 
Bizarre this given where they were but the manager has to take responsibility for this level of collapse. All well and good having a style of play and trying to play the right way but you need a plan B when that's not working.

It'll be disaster for them if they go down. Every half decent player they have will want away.
 
RedRover said:
Bizarre this given where they were but the manager has to take responsibility for this level of collapse. All well and good having a style of play and trying to play the right way but you need a plan B when that's not working.

It'll be disaster for them if they go down. Every half decent player they have will want away.
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It'll be interesting for sure. There will be clubs circling them like vultures. Even if they stay up, there'll be a few that want away due to no Champions League (assuming they don't win it)
 
Who do they face in the CL? Is it Juventus?
 
Will be interesting to see where he goes from here. What a flash in the pan Klopp has turned out to be

Funny in way, but he seems a nice chap so maybe not that funny

How is Kagawa getting on?
 
Randall Flagg said:
Will be interesting to see where he goes from here. What a flash in the pan Klopp has turned out to be

Funny in way, but he seems a nice chap so maybe not that funny

How is Kagawa getting on?
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Kagawa hasn't played much since going back to Dortmund, apparently he had fitness problems. He came on yesterday was responsible for one awful cross and a dive and was as shit as the rest of their attacking department.
 
Balu said:
He took over at Mainz when they were fighting against relegation in the 2nd Bundesliga and he turned them into a challenger for promotion to the 1st Bundesliga and actually lead them into the 1st Bundesliga for the first time in the history of the club. After 3 years with limited funds, they got relegated, he stayed for one more season and finished 4th, missing out on promotion by just one place. Then he left for Dortmund.

Despite the team getting relegated in the end, he laid the foundation for the club Mainz is today and it isn't really comparable with the awful season Dortmund are having now. I wouldn't say there were any extreme lows during his time at Mainz at all.
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Out of interest, do you hope they get relegated? Or that Klopp gets the sack?
 
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