I'd like to think the board would stick by him. Probably won't but I have no doubts that he's still a top manager.
Jurgen Klopp and Dortmund
- Thread starter DiaboliQue
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let's shop them in the summer. Reus would be great for LVG he could play winger when we convert to play wingers. If we stick to diamond he can play the second striker.. Hummels obviously and how is gundogan these days? Does he still wears that belly?
Bayern'll probably buy most of 'em on the cheap.
There's nothing a coach can do if players simply refuse to put the ball in the back of the net.
Why would Arsenal fans want to replace Wenger? Some foolish minority ones might. But you'd be stupid to risk getting rid of Wenger for someone you might not know what you are getting with. And that's not aimed at just Klopp, but other names linked as Wengers successor.
Wenger just needs to stop being stubborn and sign a CDM.
bayern and real would be the obvious favourite to get them on cheap. still we could possibly try.
shame about gundogan's injury problems. he is the absolute 2 footed player that you could ever ask for.
Bayern is not a junk market...
Makes you think about Arsene in the last 10 years at Arsenal....we've lost our very best players almost every season starting from 2005 and he's still managed to shift into a new stadium, fill it up every match, qualify for the CL, and keep us in the top ten clubs financially. It's astounding given the relative financial crunch we faced in the late noughties.
I now firmly believe they will go down. The rot has set for way too long.
And that's why I find it bizarre when some Arsenal fans have a right moan about Wenger and wanting to replace him.
This is where the likes of Mourinho and Guardiola are so smart. One way or the other, they've switched clubs at or close to their peaks. In modern football, it's incredibly hard to build long term legacies. Fergie was really a one off
Both bad examples IMO. They've both been well placed to create long term club legacies but both opted for a fresh challenge.
Klopp on the other hand doesn't have a chance of that because his teams are sold out from underneath him. Every time he gets a player to anywhere near a world class level he's gone and its square one again.
Guardiola stated that he left Barcelona because of the stress and politics involved. Mourinho was sacked by Chelsea initially, left Inter for greener pastures and his stint at Real doesn't really show anything close to a legacy.
Immobile and Aubameyang are best suited to a counterattacking team while Ramos just hasn't worked out as a target man. Lewandowski was perfect because he could do both at a high level. They just don't have the players to break down a defense that isn't willing to give them space in behind.
Tbh, as big a club as Arsenal is, they should be keeping all those players.
It just wasn't possible though with the new stadium.
Maybe if Stan the man had lumped some cash into the club we could have kept those players, but he never did.
Whatever be the situation, you can't really compare Wenger to Klopp, really. Look at where Dortmund where just 6-7 years back. On the verge of bankruptcy.
In the present day, the revenue difference between Arsenal and Dortmund is just 30 million euros though. Klopp is failing, pretty miserably at that.
Lets be honest, Spurs, Atletico and almost every other club outside of a select 6 or 7 are in that same boat and either sold as many or in some cases more world class level players, or just didn't have them to begin with. Dortmund sold (or lost) Gotze and Lewandowski, we sold Modric and Bale and Atletico sold Costa and Falcao.
Dortmund have spent the second most of any German team (including Wolfsburg), at over £100m in just 2 years, replacing and replenishing their stocks. Spurs trail about 6th for spending as far as English clubs go, with £140m in 2 years.
Nobody gives Spurs those excuses. If we slip to anything like Dortmund's level this season, Pochettino and Levy would be savaged on here for incompetence. Dropping to 18th (last) simply can't be excused by losing Gotze and Lewandowski and almost nothing else. Almost every other star player remains or remained at the club, including Reus and Hummels (despite injuries).
In a 34 game season, guys of varying levels like Sherwood, AVB, Redknapp and Pochettino could get 60 points almost without fail. Klopp's on course for less than 30 if this season finishes as it's started.
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They are just being very unfortunate, imo. I don't watch a lot of BL, but I watched the last Dortmund match, and they seemed to have enough to score, but couldn't. I really do hope they turn it around though, but it is looking increasingly unlikely.
The correct comparison should be with the amount spent and not with the respective positions in the spending list.
They're 18th, not 5th or 6th. They spent more money than any other club in the league in the summer. If those strikers aren't good enough to break teams down that have an overall budget of less than what Immobile and Ramos cost in the summer, then maybe the manager is at fault? I defended Klopp throughout the first half of the season, but so far it looks like he changed feck all in the winterbreak and that has to be really worrying. If they lose away at Freiburg on Saturday (and they will if they play like yesterday), the club might actually be forced to fire him, as crazy as it sounds after all he did for the club.
But if they're spending more than almost all the teams in their league, shouldn't that count for something?
Immobile looked pretty good in Italy, not sure what's happened to him at Dotmund.
Hope they go down. The ultimate hipster club of he last few years.
Hope they go down. The ultimate hipster club of he last few years.
Will all due respect, you yourself said you started following the sport toward the end of the last decade seriously...it's easier to say 'big club' looking back at a period you hadn't gone through. The decisions he took were hugely unpopular with support (tbf, a large percentage understood and were patient). But it's equally possible we might have gone on a complete freefall under a manager who didn't know what he was doing, which is what I'm alluding to.
Agreed. There is no plan B and that is Klopp's fault. This team looks to be going down unless they make radical tactical adjustments or fire Klopp.
Whatever way you look at it Wenger's stubborness has cost you big time, a club of Arsenals size should not be so far off the pace for so long (10th season they have finished outside the top 2?). All he had to do was buy a proper defensive midfielder and a proper striker but he flat refused because it didn't fit in with his vision.
On Dortmund I think Klopp has been found out a little bit. They have always been a counter attacking side under Klopp but opposition teams are sitting back and forcing Dortmund to bring the game to them. They aren't designed to play with long periods of possession and end up bring countered themselves.
Huh? I have followed the sport long enough to know that Arsenal were (are) a big club. You were consistently competing with Manchester United for the PL title (finished 1st/2nd for 8 seasons in a row), regularly competed in the Champions League. Are you seriously telling me a team which competes for the national title regularly isn't a big club?
Last 2 seasons spending
£100m - Dortmund - £60m net
£100m - Bayern - £20m net
£80m - Wolfsburg - £60m net
£50m - Leverkusen - £10m net
£30m - Schalke - £10m net
£20m - Monchengladbach - £0m net
£10m - Augsburg - £10m net
It's so weird, on one side it makes me sad, what's happening at Dortmund. It really sucks for the league and German football. They had the chance to establish themselves close to the top in Europe and grow further and the league needs a 2nd European top team.
On the other side, I enjoy it because I had to listen to Dortmund fans and supporters for 5 years how easy it is to win with superior finances and that our success in recent years isn't a big achievement. How Klopp could do the same if he had the money, how embarrassing it is that we don't win the league every year. Maybe it's not that easy to stay at the top of the Bundesliga or at least close to it for decades after all.
It's also funny that some people still use it as an excuse that they lost 2 players over the last 5 years (they have Kagawa and Sahin back after all) and they spent a lot of money to replace them.
On the other side, I enjoy it because I had to listen to Dortmund fans and supporters for 5 years how easy it is to win with superior finances and that our success in recent years isn't a big achievement. How Klopp could do the same if he had the money, how embarrassing it is that we don't win the league every year. Maybe it's not that easy to stay at the top of the Bundesliga or at least close to it for decades after all.
It's also funny that some people still use it as an excuse that they lost 2 players over the last 5 years (they have Kagawa and Sahin back after all) and they spent a lot of money to replace them.
That's the important point really.
A lot of people in here are making excuses for Klopp/Dortmund which would be fine if they were having a shitty season like we were last season and were around mid table. There are no excuses for them being bottom though surely?
By all accounts they were awful yesterday and it looks like Klopp doesn't know how to turn things around. It's an incredible collapse.
I don't support any German club, but I feel the same as you. 9-10 months ago I was very happy Klopp stayed at Dortmund, thus rejecting clubs who were after a manager. I felt him leaving the Bundesliga would have been the worst thing that could happen to that league. If he stayed at Dortmund I felt he could keep them competitive, but it seems that's not the case. Nothing against Klopp, but I'm privately happy the wank fest surrounding him has subsided.
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I find this quite sad to see. They were so much fun to watch.
It seems that Klopp doesn't have a Plan B.
They really should try something different. Maybe even 5 at the back, given they have 3 top CBs.
They really should try something different. Maybe even 5 at the back, given they have 3 top CBs.
Weidenfeller
Piszczek - Papastathopoulos - Hummels - Subotic - Schmelzer
Błaszczykowski - Bender - Gundogan - Reus
Aubameyang
Piszczek - Papastathopoulos - Hummels - Subotic - Schmelzer
Błaszczykowski - Bender - Gundogan - Reus
Aubameyang
Of course it was over the top. His pressing game is carbon copy of certain manager's ideas, not only on the pitch, but also in training (as German media have noticed back in 2012.)
So far I haven't seen him doing something else. He's still young enough, there's time for him to change his approach.
That's a very good side, on paper alteast! No idea how they're bottom of the league!
They lost again.It's sad to see and we all loved Dortmund the past few years but their loss should be our gain.
Reus, Piszczek and Hummels would improve our team. Gundogan is a gamble I'd take considering he'd be cheap and is very young.
Reus, Piszczek and Hummels would improve our team. Gundogan is a gamble I'd take considering he'd be cheap and is very young.
It's a tough one to call.
At the end of the day, it's only natural for people to say he's not as good as we thought he was, when he's having a season like this. Especially this bad.
But lets not forget what he achieved before this and how he set his team up and took Madrid apart and really should have won a CL.
I'd like to think he'll respond and get them out of this mess and come back stronger. If not for his own sake then for Kagawa's....Chap has probably gone on another of his eating binges over this
Having a snide Toblerone or 10
At the end of the day, it's only natural for people to say he's not as good as we thought he was, when he's having a season like this. Especially this bad.
But lets not forget what he achieved before this and how he set his team up and took Madrid apart and really should have won a CL.
I'd like to think he'll respond and get them out of this mess and come back stronger. If not for his own sake then for Kagawa's....Chap has probably gone on another of his eating binges over this
Having a snide Toblerone or 10 Didn't he get his previous team relegated as well. This is odd for a team like Dortmund but not for a manager like Kloop(Who seems to be a manager of extremes highs but also extremes low as well.)It's a tough one to call.
At the end of the day, it's only natural for people to say he's not as good as we thought he was, when he's having a season like this. Especially this bad.
But lets not forget what he achieved before this and how he set his team up and took Madrid apart and really should have won a CL.
I'd like to think he'll respond and get them out of this mess and come back stronger. If not for his own sake then for Kagawa's....Chap has probably gone on another of his eating binges over this
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