Jurgen Klopp and Dortmund

Status
Not open for further replies.
NoLogo said:
The thing that I would have expected was them at least trying to get a coordinated counter attack going but there seemed no direction to it every ball was just somehow hoofed up the field but often enough landing no where near their own players, their attacking play was just pure randomness at times which was just awful to watch at times.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it was awful. There's no excuse to be playing that type of football, passing is meant to be one of their best strengths and they were terrible last night. They have to play much better if they hope to avoid relegation, it actually shocked me how awful they were. Don't get me wrong, Leverkusen played well and pressed them, but that's no excuse for Dortmund to play that badly. Dortmund were fortunate that Leverkusen had an off night in the final third, they didn't really look like creating all that much. Hummels did that excellent headed clearance off the line and there was that lob effort late on.

A point away is all well and good, but the performance doesn't inspire confidence.
 
RedSky said:
Indeed, it was awful. There's no excuse to be playing that type of football, passing is meant to be one of their best strengths and they were terrible last night. They have to play much better if they hope to avoid relegation, it actually shocked me how awful they were. Don't get me wrong, Leverkusen played well and pressed them, but that's no excuse for Dortmund to play that badly. Dortmund were fortunate that Leverkusen had an off night in the final third, they didn't really look like creating all that much. Hummels did that excellent headed clearance off the line and there was that lob effort late on.

A point away is all well and good, but the performance doesn't inspire confidence.
Click to expand...
I think right now, its important for them to grind results and get themselves out of the relegation zone. They were trying something different than they used to, and that's alright.
 
I don't watch the Bundesliga every week, so can someone please tell me how the hell Dortmund have gone from where they were last season to bottom of the table with 18 games played. That's fecking crazy. Losing players will hurt any side but Lewandowski can't be the difference maker in such a big collapse.
 
The Taurean said:
I think right now, its important for them to grind results and get themselves out of the relegation zone. They were trying something different than they used to, and that's alright.
Click to expand...

They'll need to be more attacking to do that though TT. Grinding out results is fine, but playing for a draw imo isn't. There was no attacking plan last night, despite having Ramos, Immobile their two summer signings in the squad. You can say they have a lot of injuries, but that doesn't really hold true considering the players they had in their squad last night. It's going to be a very interesting 2nd half of the season in the Bundesliga.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
For someone who doesn't watch the Bundesliga every week, can someone please tell me how the hell Dortmund have gone from where they were last season to bottom of the table with 18 games played. That's fecking crazy. Losing players will hurt any side but Lewandowski can't be the difference maker in such a big collapse.
Click to expand...

Two years of bad transfer business + losing some of their best players and Klopps tactics not working as well anymore as they used to. Add on top of that a squad that suffered mentally and couldn't finish their chances up front as well making comical mistakes at the back in almost every game and you get where Dortmund are this season. Oh yeah and some bad injury luck didn't help either.
 
NoLogo said:
Two years of bad transfer business + losing some of their best players and Klopps tactics not working as well anymore as they used to. Add on top of that a squad that suffered mentally and couldn't finish their chances up front as well making comical mistakes at the back in almost every game and you get where Dortmund are this season. Oh yeah and some bad injury luck didn't help either.
Click to expand...

It's mainly the transfers imo. They've sold excellent players and replaced them with mediocre ones, which is surprising given the quality in the Bundesliga.
 
RedSky said:
They'll need to be more attacking to do that though TT. Grinding out results is fine, but playing for a draw imo isn't. There was no attacking plan last night, despite having Ramos, Immobile their two summer signings in the squad. You can say they have a lot of injuries, but that doesn't really hold true considering the players they had in their squad last night. It's going to be a very interesting 2nd half of the season in the Bundesliga.
Click to expand...
It sure is.
It's really interesting to see how Dortmund have worked during the break to get themselves back up. Yesterday was a start, not a good one at that.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
I haven't seen much of the German league as I mentioned but like always they'd be pragmatic got to check if they might run into a better and loyal manager if they were to sack him in their predicament. Klopp extended his contract when he had the upper hand over the club so may be they repay him at his worst time.
Click to expand...
This is a multi million dollar operation threading on thin ice (like the majority of upper tier clubs). No room to be sentimental on crucial positions such as coach. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
I don't really think Klopp and the Management have a "we don't care we sack you now" relation. I believe both will have a talk after a season not meeting expectations, and come to a mutual decision. Klopp won't hang on to his job if he feels either he can't reach the team any more or the management doesn't support him any more.
 
RedSky said:
It's mainly the transfers imo. They've sold excellent players and replaced them with mediocre ones, which is surprising given the quality in the Bundesliga.
Click to expand...

Sokratis is a top level defender and was a major steal for 10 Mil. €. Aubameyang for 13 Mil. € has also shown constant improvement, being by far our best offensive player in the first half of the season and second only to Reus in 2014 overall. Getting Sahin back for 7 Mil. € was also good business. The guy is extremely important in giving a team structure (as seen yesterday) and him being injured for the whole first season half probably hurt us the most.

The jury is still out for Immobile (strikers having a hard time under Klopp at the start is hardly a new thing and you can see development) and Ginter (young, raw but undoubtly talented). The second season half will show if Kagawa has lost all of his edge at United or if he manages to rediscover his form again. Kampl looked promising in his first match.

In hindsight, the Ramos transfer was probably not needed and Mkhitaryan was a couple millions too expensive, although the latter still played a good first season.

Putting the blame for the god awful first season half on the new guys is hardly fair, though. The way bigger issue was the established players (Hummels, Weidenfeller, Pisczu, Bender, etc.) letting the team down. Nearly the whole squad underperfomed. Klopp now had a couple of weeks to make adjustments and I have seen that yesterday. We finally stood stable in the defense most of the time, reducing the number of shots from one of the best offenses in the league to a season low. This was mostly done with a fairly destrucitve way of play, but giving the situation in the offense (Reus/Mkhitaryan coming back from injuries, Aubameyang/Kagawa coming back a few day ago from their tournaments, Kuba/Gündogan injured) it was a tactic I can completely stand behind. This was not pretty, but being the better team has hardly brought us results so far in the season (half a dozen of our losses were against worse teams) and if that is the way vs. top teams to get out of the relegation zone as soon as possible, then so be it.

Overall the last game was a step, a tiny one, in the right direction.
 
I hope they win the CL (a bit wishful thinking) but stranger things have happened and they are still a quality side. And they can play without the relegation pressure in the CL.
 
united_99 said:
I hope they win the CL (a bit wishful thinking) but stranger things have happened and they are still a quality side. And they can play without the relegation pressure in the CL.
Click to expand...

They seemed to have handled the group stages with ease, it's amazing to think this is a team that is currently holding the table up. It does seem that every time I have watched a Dortmund game this season (about a handful of times), their defense have been an utter shambles.
 
Dortmund werent great against Leverkusen but did their job.
The game was in Leverkusen and Bayer hasnt lost a match there all season. Both teams neutralised each other out for most of the game imo.
For me the most important part was the return of key players like Sahin(who played 7! minutes in the first half of the Bundesliga due to injuries), Mkhitaryan and Reus.
They have a few games to get ready for the Juve away game. And with almost everyone on board I see a very good chance there.
These 2 games will decide most of the season, imo. The team is too good to go down but if they miss out on the CL quarters the whole team could lose some drive.
Make the top 8 in europe, big cash and points, win a few Bundesliga games and suddenly the mood will change for sure. Specially in Dortmund, which is the most important thing.
EL with the cup or league, a CL quarter and the super cup. That would be a good season for Dortmund. 1 year without CL is ok, as long as they earn european points next season.
 
Absolutley incredible what he's doing down there. How has he made them this bad? Is it a case of media gossip of his best stars leaving made worse by the recent departues of ledwandowski and gotze? Or is it just a case of them having a rubbish team now theyve gone and they havent recruited very well.
 
iamfalcao said:
Absolutley incredible what he's doing down there. How has he made them this bad? Is it a case of media gossip of his best stars leaving made worse by the recent departues of ledwandowski and gotze? Or is it just a case of them having a rubbish team now theyve gone and they havent recruited very well.
Click to expand...

I think it's a mixture of a lot of things but the main part of this has to be some sort of mental blockade. Even if the players they have bought in the last two transfer windows aren't as good as those who left they should still at least fight for the Europa League with these players. But you can really see it in their games they are scared out of their minds and every missed chance up front or mistake at the back makes it even worse. They need to make a decision about Klopp after the next game on Saturday because so far it doesn't look like he is finding an answer to solve their problems.
 
dxadel said:
A year ago he was the best coach in the world to some people.....smh
Click to expand...

Still a great coach. I absolutely despise posts like these. Mocking what you perceive to have been kneejerk reactions with your own kneejerk reaction? Good job.

You all glossing over the fact LVG was sacked by Barcelona for sitting 3 points above the relegation zone? Or sacked by Bayern for finishing 3rd (while Klopp was on his way to a title). People in glass houses and all that...
 
Pink Moon said:
Still a great coach. I absolutely despise posts like these. Mocking what you perceive to have been kneejerk reactions with your own kneejerk reaction? Good job.

You all glossing over the fact LVG was sacked by Barcelona for sitting 3 points above the relegation zone? Or sacked by Bayern for finishing 3rd (while Klopp was on his way to a title). People in glass houses and all that...
Click to expand...

Pretty much spot on.

Resounding success and unmitigated failure are integral parts of the sporting world. You can't win the domestic double and subsequently reach the finals of the Champion's League after dismantling a Mourinho led Real Madrid without being a manager of the highest caliber. Unfortunately, we live in a world of short term memories and sensationalist media pieces that magnify every little fault and dissect public personalities surgically, so extreme sway of opinions is to be expected and there's often little room for middle ground.

That said, Dortmund's future with Klopp (presuming they stick by the man who took them to such heights in the first place) and his ability to resurrect them might be the truest gauge of his mettle.
 
Invictus said:
Pretty much spot on.

Resounding success and unmitigated failure are integral parts of the sporting world. You can't win the domestic double and subsequently reach the finals of the Champion's League after dismantling a Mourinho led Real Madrid without being a manager of the highest caliber. Unfortunately, we live in a world of short term memories and sensationalist media pieces that magnify every little fault and dissect public personalities surgically, so extreme sway of opinions is to be expected and there's often little room for middle ground.

That said, Dortmund's future with Klopp (presuming they stick by the man who took them to such heights in the first place) and his ability to resurrect them might be the truest gauge of his mettle.
Click to expand...

Agree with this.

I still can't get my head around what's happening though.
 
The transfers don't explain any of it in my oppinion. Sure, Ramos is wasted on the bench and Immobile can't score, but the real problems are something that I can't really put my finger on. It's inexplicable how a team with that squad, injuries or not, and this coach can be so goddamn awful in the Bundesliga while still topping their CL group. Like all the players refused to play properly anymore for some reason. No idea.
 
It's just a mental thing, it must be hard being a feeder club yet competing for championships domestically and in the highest european competition, it catches up with you eventually.

What they have done is incredible but they lose their best players, look at the psychological boost signing a top player can have (e.g. RVP summer 2012) so expect for them the opposite.

On top of that the system is demanding too, very intense.

I think he could build another amazing team if given time and funds at a champions league club.

I'm not sure what top clubs will have vacancies, United perhaps if Louis van Gaal doesn't get top four, but as of now it looks like he will.

Oh yeah, I hope Hummels won't be too expensive in the summer, depends who is in for him.
 
Will he walk for the benefit if the club? He doesn't seem to be able to turn it around.
 
Every team comes to the end of its cycle and Dortmund just probably need a fresh start and approach with someone else in charge.

It's not a slight on Klopp. Maybe he needs a change as much as the team does but still, to drop to the bottom of the Bundesliga is unprecedented, from the position they were in even just last season.
 
Pink Moon said:
Still a great coach. I absolutely despise posts like these. Mocking what you perceive to have been kneejerk reactions with your own kneejerk reaction? Good job.

You all glossing over the fact LVG was sacked by Barcelona for sitting 3 points above the relegation zone? Or sacked by Bayern for finishing 3rd (while Klopp was on his way to a title). People in glass houses and all that...
Click to expand...

Lol, kneejerk reaction? i didn't say he was a bad coach, or is saying he isn't the best in the world now a knee-jerk reaction? LVG wasn't sacked by Barcelona, he left by mutual consent after the Rivaldo crisis, besides the team was in shambles, they weren't as good as this Dortmund team.

Dortmund aren't sitting 3 points above the relegation zone or in 3rd position, they are currently in last place which is pathetic for a coach considered by many to be the best in the world (my original point), they have the likes of Kagawa,Reus,Hummels,Immobile,Gundogan,Bender etc and yet they have been flirting with last place all season long, i mean its not like they just dropped down a month ago, they were in 14th position in week 6 and they haven't gone higher than that since, that is no fluke it is sheer mismanagement, if David Moyes went to the Bundesliga and took a team that finished 2nd to 18th on the table he would have gotten so much stick, but now its Klopp its a knee-jerk reaction? how about we call a spade a spade.

He was largely successful in winning the Bundesliga twice and reaching the UCL final, he proved that a team can be successful without spending huge sums of money, i give him credit for that but you are only as good as your current achievement.
 
Aboutreika18 said:
Every team comes to the end of its cycle and Dortmund just probably need a fresh start and approach with someone else in charge.

It's not a slight on Klopp. Maybe he needs a change as much as the team does but still, to drop to the bottom of the Bundesliga is unprecedented, from the position they were in even just last season.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
Rafa Honigstein just said on 5Live if he loses at Freiburg he will be out. Dunno how reliable he is.
 
Wow just seen the clip of the Dortmund players speaking with the fans...pretty powerful stuff the fans are furious.
 
Brophs said:
It might be too optimistic but I still reckon they'll be fine and and the summer break will serve as a reset button.
Click to expand...

Yes, i can see them rebuilding in the summer but it will be tough after losing Hummels to Van Gaal's United ;)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
So. Kagawa. Thriving now he's not being cruelly forced to play out of position in a team devoid of movement?
Click to expand...

While sitting on the bench Kagawa's resting heart rate is now 5th best in the league; he is able to cross his legs in under 2 seconds, which is second best to the reserve keeper.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.