Jurgen Klopp and Dortmund

Status
Not open for further replies.
I like Dortmund.
I love how they conduct and run themselves as a club...

But, a mate of mine said after the CL final in 2013, "Watch them crash and burn!"

I asked what makes him think that and he said, "Klopp runs his players into the ground....You watch, they'll get continuous injures and no one worthwhile will go to them. It's downhill from here"

I laughed at him but, Christ was he right :eek:
 
Am I the only one already fantasizing about the players we could get from Dortmund if they get relegated? I feel dirty because I actually like them, but Gundogan, Reus, Bender, Hummels could all be available on the cheap.
 
Freak said:
Am I the only one already fantasizing about the players we could get from Dortmund if they get relegated? I feel dirty because I actually like them, but Gundogan, Reus, Bender, Hummels could all be available on the cheap.
Click to expand...

If Klopp stays I can see a few of them staying to play in the 2nd division and they'll likely bounce back within a season. Having not seen a minute of German football of late, there's not much separating the 10th to the 18th in Bundesliga so may be they can escape it.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
If Klopp stays I can see a few of them staying to play in the 2nd division and they'll likely bounce back within a season. Having not seen a minute of German football of late, there's not much separating the 10th to the 18th in Bundesliga so may be they can escape it.
Click to expand...

The relegation - actually they should. Would really be a major blow-up if a team with a 300m EUR revenue would be relegated.

2nd league - Of the players that are named there? Nobody would go into the 2nd division... Even not playing internationally will hurt them because none of them has a solid place in the German national team and the EUROs are 2016. Not even Hummels when Badstuber comes back. It would be different if they would be at the end of their career or at the start - but the others?

And because of Klopp... I doubt that Hummels and Co. still believe in everything.
 
Last edited:
Wednesday at Stoke said:
If Klopp stays I can see a few of them staying to play in the 2nd division and they'll likely bounce back within a season. Having not seen a minute of German football of late, there's not much separating the 10th to the 18th in Bundesliga so may be they can escape it.
Click to expand...
Klopp might want to stay in case they get relegated. But surely that's a sackable offense?
 
Freak said:
Am I the only one already fantasizing about the players we could get from Dortmund if they get relegated? I feel dirty because I actually like them, but Gundogan, Reus, Bender, Hummels could all be available on the cheap.
Click to expand...
shut up, please.
 
Blackwidow said:
The relegation - actually they should. Would really be a major blow-up if a team with a 300m EUR revenue would be relegated.

2nd league - Of the players that are named there? Nobody would go into the 2nd division... Even not playing internationally will hurt them because none of them has a solid place in the German national team and the EUROs are 2016. Not even Hummels when Badstuber comes back. It would be different if they would be at the end of their career or at the start - but the others?

And because of Klopp... I doubt that Hummels and Co. still believe in everything.
Click to expand...

Buffon, Nedved and Del Piero stayed with Juventus and played in the 2nd division in 2006 albeit in different circumstances. They'll likely lose some players but it wouldn't surprise me if they managed to hold onto some others, from what I read about them the players and the club share a rather close relationship with the fans, which could be a motivating factor.
 
MDFC Manager said:
Klopp might want to stay in case they get relegated. But surely that's a sackable offense?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen much of the German league as I mentioned but like always they'd be pragmatic got to check if they might run into a better and loyal manager if they were to sack him in their predicament. Klopp extended his contract when he had the upper hand over the club so may be they repay him at his worst time.
 
It actually makes me wonder if they've got some escape clauses in their contracts, who could've foreseen that they'd be in relegation battle. Not that they'll get relegated imo, they'll easily escape it and end somewhere in the middle of the table.
 
I doubt they'll get relegated but they're finishing midtable at best. I think we should be lining up our summer cash just for their squad.


................De Gea
Piszczek-Hummels-Rojo-Shaw
-------Gundogan-Blind
Reus------Mata------Di Maria
-----------Rooney
 
Is there something to be said for the fact Rodgers has managed to turn his slump around by playing some of the most attractive football in the league and getting a solid defence somehow cobbled together infront of Mignolet. Without Suarez or Sturridge.

But Klopp still hasn't been able to rectify or improve this situation yet. Not saying he's not the better manager but it would give even me as a Tottenham fan concerns the amount he's reminding me of Juande Ramos at this particular moment.
 
With most of his players getting up to some match fitness, Blaszo on the way back from a long term injury they will get better.. I don't see them relegated I would put my money on them climbing the table in coming months.. They have way to much quality to go down..
 
You people are seriously going on about Gundogan?!

So, you wanna sign someone who is constantly injured and has barely played in the last year or so, and put him in a team that already has issues with injuries.


Yeah, real smart

Also, we for some strange reason don't sign German players.....Which has always puzzled me
 
Last edited:
luckyspurs said:
Is there something to be said for the fact Rodgers has managed to turn his slump around by playing some of the most attractive football in the league and getting a solid defence somehow cobbled together infront of Mignolet. Without Suarez or Sturridge.

But Klopp still hasn't been able to rectify or improve this situation yet. Not saying he's not the better manager but it would give even me as a Tottenham fan concerns the amount he's reminding me of Juande Ramos at this particular moment.
Click to expand...
Dortmund have played one game in the last 6 weeks and that was a 0-0 draw away at a top four team, hardly a bad result. What exactly do you think he should have done during the time when Rodgers turned Liverpool's season around that would have made you less concerned?

And what's with the comparison to managers who haven't managed to stay at any club for more than 3 years so far? Klopp's Dortmund side in 2011/12 had a start as bad as Liverpool this season and he turned it around, played the most successful second half in the history of the league and won the title with a points record in the end. Klopp is now in his 7th season at Dortmund and faces completely different challenges to Rodgers, who maybe should establish a team at the top for 4 consecutive years and win titles before we even start to compare him to Klopp.
 
.Rossi said:
You people are seriously going on about Gundogan?!

So, you wanna sign someone who is constantly injured and has barely played in the last year or so, and put him in a team that already has issues with injuries.


Yeah, real smart
Click to expand...

Have you forgotten how good he was? I'd happily take a £15m gamble on him on the chance he'd recapture his 2013 form.
 
Trizy said:
Have you forgotten how good he was? I'd happily take a £15m gamble on him on the chance he'd recapture his 2013 form.
Click to expand...

He's excellent.

But, he's played something like 9 or 10 games in 2 years now....And people are wanting to sign him for an injury plagued team?!

Also, as I said, we don't seem to sign German players for some reason
 
Trizy said:
Have you forgotten how good he was? I'd happily take a £15m gamble on him on the chance he'd recapture his 2013 form.
Click to expand...

I'd rather give Herrera games given how brilliant he's been the last 18 months. Gundogan was great to watch back then, but it's not even a guarantee he could replicate that in the Premier League, even without the injury concerns.

Hummels is a little overpriced, but would still be one of the best 2 or 3 in the league. Piszczek would be a great signing for United, especially given Rafael's fitness issues. But Gundogan signing could damage a very good £30m player you already have at the club, without the injury worries.
 
Balu said:
Dortmund have played one game in the last 6 weeks and that was a 0-0 draw away at a top four team, hardly a bad result. What exactly do you think he should have done during the time when Rodgers turned Liverpool's season around that would have made you less concerned?

And what's with the comparison to managers who haven't managed to stay at any club for more than 3 years so far? Klopp's Dortmund side in 2011/12 had a start as bad as Liverpool this season and he turned it around, played the most successful second half in the history of the league and won the title with a points record in the end. Klopp is now in his 7th season at Dortmund and faces completely different challenges to Rodgers, who maybe should establish a team at the top for 4 consecutive years and win titles before we even start to compare him to Klopp.
Click to expand...

That season Gundogan came in for Sahin, but the rest of the side remained almost completely settled from a league winning team the season before. They were expected to come back in strength, even though it was very impressive the extent to which they did it to take the title again by a decent margin.

His first season without Lewandowski leading the line in a while and they're second lowest scorers in the league. Ramos and Immobile were 20 a season strikers last season and Reus, Mkhitaryan and Kagawa are all supposed to be double figures scorers from midfield.

He's managed a record almost indistinguishable from Sunderland, Leicester and Crystal Palace, with Fletcher, Ulloa and Chamakh leading the line and few goalscorers from midfield.

I don't really like Rodgers, but it's a mark against Klopp's name (a rare one I know) and a tick against Rodgers', the way he's managed to build something from scraps this season and Klopp, with more at his fingertips, hasn't.
 
Last edited:
Freak said:
Am I the only one already fantasizing about the players we could get from Dortmund if they get relegated? I feel dirty because I actually like them, but Gundogan, Reus, Bender, Hummels could all be available on the cheap.
Click to expand...

Fantasizing about players who have lead their team to the bottom the league? Yeah, no.

Hummels has been shit and error prone. Gundogan and Bender's performances range from bang average to shit. Reus is probably the best of the lot but seems to have dodgy ankles.
 
luckyspurs said:
That season Gundogan came in for Sahin, but the rest of the side remained almost completely settled from a league winning team the season before. They were expected to come back in strength, even though it was very impressive the extent to which they did it to take the title again by a decent margin.

His first season without Lewandowski leading the line in a while and they're second lowest scorers in the league. Ramos and Immobile were 20 a season strikers last season and Reus, Mkhitaryan and Kagawa are all supposed to be double figures scorers from midfield.

He's managed a record almost indistinguishable from Sunderland, Leicester and Crystal Palace, with Fletcher, Ulloa and Chamakh leading the line and few goalscorers from midfield.

I don't really like Rodgers, but it's a mark against Klopp's name (a rare one I know) and a tick against Rodgers', the way he's managed to build something from scraps this season and Klopp, with more at his fingertips, hasn't.
Click to expand...
Well yeah, Dortmund played awful in the first 17 games in the league this season, no one is denying that. What's weird is that you start this 'Rodgers turned it around, Klopp didn't' argument at a time when Klopp didn't have a chance to show if he did or not. Again, Dortmund played one game since December 20th, a respectable draw away at Leverkusen, in which the defense looked solid and well organised for the first time this season. Don't you agree you should give Klopp at least a few games to show if he turned it around over the winterbreak or not before you pass judgement on that?
 
0-0 away at Leverkusen is hardly the end of world. Let's wait and see how they perform in easier games, I think they will stay up comfortably but a season outside CL will be bad enough for them. They've regressed so much since 2011-13.
 
akash02 said:
Fantasizing about players who have lead their team to the bottom the league? Yeah, no.

Hummels has been shit and error prone. Gundogan and Bender's performances range from bang average to shit. Reus is probably the best of the lot but seems to have dodgy ankles.
Click to expand...

Hummels did very well defending yesterday. Made an immense clearance off the line, having said that his passing accuracy was 46.3%... Schmelzer was top of Dortmunds passing accuracy on 56%. Dortmund were pretty awful.

I'd only take Reus and Hummels tbh.
 
.Rossi said:
He's excellent.

But, he's played something like 9 or 10 games in 2 years now....And people are wanting to sign him for an injury plagued team?!

Also, as I said, we don't seem to sign German players for some reason
Click to expand...

Sir Alex showed no preference for German players (yet we had a few on the books during his tenure). But as we've been consistantly linked to German players since Van Gaal took over, that should change.
 
pascell said:
I'm pretty sure they'll turn it around. If they go on a 5 game winning run, they'll be around mid table.
Click to expand...

They still got all the chances. The 7 last teams are all only divided by 3 points so it's not like an impossible task for them and the fact that they didn't allow too many chances against an inform Leverkusen is encouraging for them I'm pretty sure.

But this Dortmund side has also shown that they are mentally not very strong and a loss or two against teams that are considered much weaker might plummet them right back into a depression. I hope for them they can turn it around but I'm still a bit skeptical at this point if they are really on the verge of turning it around. Even in the first half of season we saw them getting some reasonable results against the stronger teams only to then completely fail against the weaker sides and this imo will be the real test if they are capable of winning the most important games against the other bottom half of the table clubs.
 
People need to calm down, they played well yesterday. Once you are in the relegation zone, it is hard to get back. They have classy players and a very good squad, no doubt they will survive. But talking now about which players we should buy when they get relegated is too far-fetched, more realistic is when they miss the CL.
 
izec said:
People need to calm down, they played well yesterday. Once you are in the relegation zone, it is hard to get back. They have classy players and a very good squad, no doubt they will survive. But talking now about which players we should buy when they get relegated is too far-fetched, more realistic is when they miss the CL.
Click to expand...

On top of that Watzke already said that all players have contracts for the second league and they aren't just going to let them go for free if they get relegated. So it's not like we could just come and chose and pick as we please without paying a shit pile of money for it, well all apart from Reus who is fairly cheap with his 25M € buyout clause.
 
NoLogo said:
On top of that Watzke already said that all players have contracts for the second league and they aren't just going to let them go for free if they get relegated.
Click to expand...

Well not for free, but obviously some of them dont want to play there understandably, so good offers will come in. For example Reus and Hummels would be impossible to keep.
 
izec said:
Well not for free, but obviously some of them dont want to play there understandably, so good offers will come in. For example Reus and Hummels would be impossible to keep.
Click to expand...

Yeah but Hummels will still cost as much as he would now that's 40M-50M € imo and the rest of the players that got mentioned above aren't much cheaper either so if we are willing to invest another 100M € into all those Dortmund players we could probably get them but it sounded as if people thought "oh now that they are relegated we can buy half their team for cheap" which imo would not be the case.
 
izec said:
People need to calm down, they played well yesterday. Once you are in the relegation zone, it is hard to get back. They have classy players and a very good squad, no doubt they will survive. But talking now about which players we should buy when they get relegated is too far-fetched, more realistic is when they miss the CL.
Click to expand...

No they didn't. They had the worst ever recorded passing success rate since records began in 2003 (in the Bundesliga). Those records include all clubs in the Bundesliga btw.
 
NoLogo said:
Yeah but Hummels will still cost as much as he would now that's 40M-50M € imo and the rest of the players that got mentioned above aren't much cheaper either so if we are willing to invest another 100M € into all those Dortmund players we could probably get them but it sounded as if people thought "oh now that they are relegated we can buy half their team for cheap" which imo would not be the case.
Click to expand...

Thats true, they wont be cheap. The discussion is also a bit pointless, i just think we are intersted in Reus and Hummels at this stage, they will probably move after thiss season, relegated or not.
 
izec said:
they are in the relegation zone, do you expect them to pick Leverkusen apart?
Click to expand...

I expect them to at least try and play football. Long ball does not suit their style of play or players and if they continue using those tactics they will remain in the relegation zone.
 
izec said:
they are in the relegation zone, do you expect them to pick Leverkusen apart?
Click to expand...

Not at all and I think they did the right thing but even if you play on the counter I would expect a better passing return from a team like Dortmund I have to say. Naturally in their current situation everything is a bit harder and Leverkusen's super aggressive pressing doesn't exactly make it easier to pick out a good long pass but still they sometimes looked like every pass was actually a clearance with no direction or purpose to it than to get it out of their own half.
 
RedSky said:
I expect them to at least try and play football. Long ball does not suit their style of play or players and if they continue using those tactics they will remain in the relegation zone.
Click to expand...

trying to play nice football didnt help them in the first half of the season, and the injuries played a major part. I dont think that was planned, but you are too critical.
 
RedSky said:
I expect them to at least try and play football. Long ball does not suit their style of play or players and if they continue using those tactics they will remain in the relegation zone.
Click to expand...

The thing that I would have expected was them at least trying to get a coordinated counter attack going but there seemed no direction to it every ball was just somehow hoofed up the field but often enough landing no where near their own players, their attacking play was just pure randomness at times which was just awful to watch at times.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.