Jurgen Klopp and Dortmund

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Sphaero said:
Hummels is nowhere near top shape, which hurts us immensively defensively (stability of the back four) and offensively (build up)
Gündogan is still far from being his old self, especially when it comes to pressing resistancy, which leads him to lose a lot of balls in dangerous situations
Sahin played exactly 8 minutes in the Bundesliga and in hindsight his injury probably hurt us the most. While often times unspectacular his biggest strengths (organizing and game flow control) are two of the biggest things we lack right now. The spaces we leave between the defensive and offensive are huge.
Kagawa has immense adjustment problems right now, both mentally and physically, which let his form fall to a low point.
Reus simply can´t catch a break in terms of injuries.
Mkhitaryan is also currently injured and before that was solid in everything outside the opposing box.

So, yes, the player material is there for that, but for various reasons the material does not manage to bring it on the pitch. As a whole the team bar three players consists of basically nothing but underperformers right now. Outside Aubameyang, Kehl and Sokratis no one plays consistently on their usual level. This is simply not enough to play successful football.

We can discuss tactical adjustments. We can ignore that the Bundesliga teams already changed their approach vs. Dortmund in 2011/2012, which ultimatively led to several other formations outside the core 4-2-3-1 (4-3-3 both defensive and offensive, 4-1-4-1 flat, 4-4-2 flat and diamond) and a way higher focus on set pieces to break deep lying defense lines (another huge problem right now). Klopp clearly favoured a two striker system in the pre season, but was then forced to return to the old 4-2-3-1 because he simply lacked the necessary ability in the midfield (Sahin, Kirch and Gündogan all injured) to pull that off. He clearly hoped to bring the collective strength back with a system the vast majority knew in and out.

Klopp certainly made mistakes in this season, some of them also in tactical matters, but at the end of the day this crisis comes mostly down to the players. They need to step it up after the winter break. The lead players need to start to actually lead the team and the rest needs to get their form in order. They have finally some time now to make adjustments.
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I agree the biggest problem have surely been injuries that unlike Bayern you couldn't compensate for and by now it's mainly a mental problem. Klopp somehow has to get his players to a mindset where they stop shitting their pants and start fighting for the survival of the club. I never really had the feeling that your players had a problem with motivation but they often looked like a scared bunch of chickens running around the pitch more than a football team.

You are still the team that runs the most kilometers in the Bundesliga. You are still among the best teams when it comes to created chances but your players are suffering from a mental blockade that prevents them from converting chances and makes them commit a lot of stupid mistakes at the back. Maybe you guys need a psychiatrist to take care of your team but somehow the fear of losing needs to get out of your players head if you want to surivive this season and it will be Klopp's task to get this done.
 
Blackwidow said:
The problem are not players that fit the style - but the style itself. Underdog tactics work as long as you are the underdog - if you are a top club you have to adjust it. And that is the main problem. Dortmund has enough players that are good when the "Dortmund style" works against teams that try to play open with them - then it does not even matter if the best players miss or not - like seen in the CL.

In the Bundesliga a lot of the real underdogs and midtable clubs follow that style themselves today - with teams in which the players are not as good as the Dortmund players are but in which that "team"-thinking still works. The rest parks the bus in a conventional way or follows more the Bayern way to fight this tactics with very good players and ball security like e.g. Wolfsburg.

The problem that Dortmund has is that there has not been much development the recent years. Dortmund had a lot of this problems already last season in which they already did not have a high percentage of goals out of open play - masked by a lot of goals through set-pieces.

No - Dortmund even with that should not be 17th in the league - but signals that they are on the way downwards already have been there last season. But - Dortmund only looked up to Bayern - and never to the other ones who got very close already in the last seasons and probably now overtook. Wolfsburg e.g. is one striker away from a real top team.
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fair enough, Klopp has a lot of work to do, and I'm not arguing what you just said, however I'm struggling to think of what exactly does Kampl have to do with this.
IMO he's gonna start off the bench for now, and move into the starting line-up next season once Reus is gone. Whether or not Klopp changes his stylr of play remains to be seen, regardless of that however I remain very confident in Kampl's ability and most of all Klopp's ability to get the best out of players.
Now you might say "stop living in 2012" seeing as Dortmund is playing like shit atm, but I for one have no doubt in their ability to regain form and finish significantly higher up the table compared to where they are now, they've shown it time and time again the past 4 seasons that they are the real deal
 
Getsme said:
What does the first tweet say, isn't showing for me.
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He must've deleted it. Said the same as yourself, big rumours he's resigned. But highly unlikely seeing as he's in the CL.
 
Lynk said:
He must've deleted it. Said the same as yourself, big rumours he's resigned. But highly unlikely seeing as he's in the CL.
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Reallyhope he hasn't, he's a fantastic manager who shouldn't leave any club on a low.
 
Nooo Jurgen. Resign in 2017, now's not the time.. :nono:
 
No chance he'd resign. They are still in the CL and him leaving now won't look the best for him. He seems to still have a lot of backing so if he left it may look like it's cos he has given up. If there was internal conflict with the board etc it would make sense, but there doesn't seem to be.
 
I have no allegiance to Klopp.
I have no positive/negative feeling towards him.
I am totally neutral.

I can imagine fans fighting for Klopp to stay, if he has the team in the top 3 (bundesliga) and competing for the CL.
But for a manager whose team is at the bottom of the league - I dont think I have ever seen such strong support for a manager who is getting such bad results and I've been watching football for around 20 years.

As a Man Utd fan, I was against Chelsea getting Mourinho, because I knew Chelsea would become close to unbeatable with him in charge.
But I have no problem with Klopp joining Liverpool or Arsenal as I honestly cant see him being a threat to Man Utd, in the same way that Mourinho is.

Using logic alone, I'd say it would be a good idea if someone else took charge of Dortmund. Their existing players are too good to be at the bottom of the table.
Sometimes, new ideas are needed to kick-start a revival.
 
I know Klopp has a contract until 2018, and has said previously that he honors his contracts, but I can see him leaving Dortmund before that contract is up possibly even at the end of this season if things don't improve.
 
There really are delusions of grandeur about how big Newcastle is as a football club in England. Klopp would never go there.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
So one person is the whole english media.......OKAY
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Where did I say that? Talksport is part of it though and this is just one of many 'articles' that is so ridiculously stupid that I don't know whether I should laugh or cry.
 
I think that Klopp is the ideal manager for a midtable club - not for the top club because of the tactics and the rhetorics he prefers.
 
Mitchell Nicholas said:
Attendance wise, yes. They've won nothing since what 1969? They've got a great supporter base, and a great stadium, but I don't think they're that big a club. Klopp moving to England would be pretty cool though.
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Yeah that's what I mean - in terms of success they've had nothing, yet they still have insane attendances. Imagine how big a club they could be if they went through a period of winning things, they could easily grow into a big contender. Thinking about it, why the hell did City/Chelsea get bought ahead of Newcastle? Location I guess... :confused:
 
Blackwidow said:
I think that Klopp is the ideal manager for a midtable club - not for the top club because of the tactics and the rhetorics he prefers.
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So, every club outside the European elite is now a midtable club or what? He took over a struggling mid table club, which grew into way more in the last five years. Midtable clubs don´t win multiple titles in such a short time frame and they also don´t win three CL groups in a row. Midtable clubs also don´t belong to the top 3 in terms of finances in their respective leagues. Are clubs like Atletico Madrid, Arsenal London and Juventus Turin midtable clubs aswell? Because this is the tier Dortmund is in.

I also love how you simply decide that counter attacking football is now suddenly a tactical approach by midtable clubs. Some of the finest football in the history of this sport was build on this approach. One of the beauties of this sport is that there is not a single dominant tactical approach. In the end what counts is how successful it is. Klopp had six years of good to outstanding success with Borussia Dortmund. Half a season of poor results in one competition does not erase that. Let´s see where he stands at the end of the season. He now has time and the chance to make the adjustments he views as important.
 
Sphaero said:
So, every club outside the European elite is now a midtable club or what? He took over a struggling mid table club, which grew into way more in the last five years. Midtable clubs don´t win multiple titles in such a short time frame and they also don´t win three CL groups in a row. Midtable clubs also don´t belong to the top 3 in terms of finances in their respective leagues. Are clubs like Atletico Madrid, Arsenal London and Juventus Turin midtable clubs aswell? Because this is the tier Dortmund is in.

I also love how you simply decide that counter attacking football is now suddenly a tactical approach by midtable clubs. Some of the finest football in the history of this sport was build on this approach. One of the beauties of this sport is that there is not a single dominant tactical approach. In the end what counts is how successful it is. Klopp had six years of good to outstanding success with Borussia Dortmund. Half a season of poor results in one competition does not erase that. Let´s see where he stands at the end of the season. He now has time and the chance to make the adjustments he views as important.
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Cmon man look at who you're talking to, it's always the same..
 
Sphaero said:
So, every club outside the European elite is now a midtable club or what? He took over a struggling mid table club, which grew into way more in the last five years. Midtable clubs don´t win multiple titles in such a short time frame and they also don´t win three CL groups in a row. Midtable clubs also don´t belong to the top 3 in terms of finances in their respective leagues. Are clubs like Atletico Madrid, Arsenal London and Juventus Turin midtable clubs aswell? Because this is the tier Dortmund is in.

I also love how you simply decide that counter attacking football is now suddenly a tactical approach by midtable clubs. Some of the finest football in the history of this sport was build on this approach. One of the beauties of this sport is that there is not a single dominant tactical approach. In the end what counts is how successful it is. Klopp had six years of good to outstanding success with Borussia Dortmund. Half a season of poor results in one competition does not erase that. Let´s see where he stands at the end of the season. He now has time and the chance to make the adjustments he views as important.
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Such a long answer for such a short sentence that you in my eyes have misinterpreted...

I think Klopp is the ideal coach for a team with young and hungry players as the concept he has (and I did not see big diversifications of that plan A) needs teams to work together not big individuals. He is good to bring this teams to the top with everything he stands for. His tactics and the rhetoric he has. I do not see him as the ideal coach for a top team in the league - not because I think he is not a good coach but because I think this teams need other coaches and tactics.

I do not care about what tier Dortmund is in - because I was not talking about Klopp as a Dortmund coach but what club he would be ideal for.

And we were not talking about all approaches of counter attacking football...
 
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Dodged a bullet here i think. Regardless of how well they played in the past no top manager has their team dead last in the league, ever.
 
Will they be relegated? it's quite sad, but vultures will be circling and that probably includes us.
 
I don't get to see much of Dortmund or the Bundesliga but can someone give a quick summation as to why they are struggling so badly? I know they have had some injuries, is that still the case?
 
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