Jurgen Klopp and Dortmund
- Thread starter DiaboliQue
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The next United manager.
Yes please, he did look a right scruffy git last night though, wore a hoodie.
Remember how he was looking when he was told that Götze is leaving?
best manager and most entertaining personality in pro football for sure, and i say that as a Bayern fan.
don't see how they are better story than Atletico.Even as a Bayern guy; Dortmund is still the greatest story in football.
You cant become a great in the BL?
I think Dortmund definitely have a shot at winning CL. They seem much more like a cup team and at their best I would back them to beat any team bar Barca (also playing at their best).
The man is a straight up Alpha, his new contract would time it nicely to follow up the work LVG does here.
I don't think so to be completely honest. If there is one man, staff or player that Dortmund would sell their pants to keep it is this lad. And I don't blame them at all for it. He is not only a superb manager and coach, but he is more or less the spirit of todays Dortmund. That's at least my take on the situation, the club loves him and he loves the club.
Klopp is a fantastic manager.
Despite losing top top players every season, he always manages to get adequate replacement and have the team still play the same fluid attacking football.
Amazing, really.
Despite losing top top players every season, he always manages to get adequate replacement and have the team still play the same fluid attacking football.
Amazing, really.
It's a shame they haven't played Barca in the CL yet - would love to see how their pressing game works against Messi, Iniesta and co.
I don't think this year's Dortmund team are anything hugely special though, the attackers they've got are just so much weaker than a couple of seasons ago. Last night for example, their midfield and the pressing game meant that they absolutely destroyed us, but it only finished 2-0. Mkhitaryan's finishing was particularly awful (not the first time I've thought this), and I'd worry that they're going to fall short against the bigger teams where Lewandowski is really missed. Don't think they have the goal scoring power to keep up with Bayern in the league either, though I hope I'm wrong on both counts. But as long as Klopp's there they'll be great to watch, and capable of making anyone look as bad as we did last night.
I don't think this year's Dortmund team are anything hugely special though, the attackers they've got are just so much weaker than a couple of seasons ago. Last night for example, their midfield and the pressing game meant that they absolutely destroyed us, but it only finished 2-0. Mkhitaryan's finishing was particularly awful (not the first time I've thought this), and I'd worry that they're going to fall short against the bigger teams where Lewandowski is really missed. Don't think they have the goal scoring power to keep up with Bayern in the league either, though I hope I'm wrong on both counts. But as long as Klopp's there they'll be great to watch, and capable of making anyone look as bad as we did last night.
Interesting enough, with Shinji and Sahin back, he only lost two of his top players in the past 4 years. That's not bad overall at all, if you consider the financial position they were in 5 years ago. With all the success they had, you'd expect that they really lost at least half the team by now. The fact that players like Sahin and Kagawa only wanted to come back to him and that someone like Hummels decides to stay longterm without a release clause shows how incredible his man-management really is. A contract extension with Reus would really put them between the top teams in Europe in my opinion and it would be a brilliant sign for the overall development of the club and with Puma now a shareholder and certainly interested in keeping Reus at Dortmund, I wouldn't rule it out that they actually can pull it off.
With Reus back in the team, it improves significantly and if Shinji's debut is anything to go by, he'll be a regular starter again and he was always a brilliant finisher for Dortmund. Also Lewandowski wasn't as brilliant in front of goal as many believe here, he was actually quite wasteful for most of his career and it was always his allround game that set him apart. The good thing is they always create countless chances and very rarely depend on scoring efficiently.
what about atletico's shady business, their unbelievable debts and whatnot. dortmund came back from that, looking better than ever, consolidated and growing.
Kagawa(at BVB), Reus and Aubameyang are very good goal scorers. Immobile and Ramos could surprise aswell but we have to wait and see.
I don´t understand how someone can come to that conclusion. We have three striker and three offensive midfielder who are all comfortably able to score double digits in a league season. I said it before, but this is basically the same midfield, which played the best second half season in the history of the league and overall strongest spell under Klopp. On top of that we now have Mkhitaryan and Reus as offensive and Sahin, Jojic and Kirch as central options. The only one missing is Lewandowski, who was still not a world class striker back then. I would even go as far as say that the current Adrian Ramos does not offer much less than the Lewandowski of 2011/2012. Then there are with Immobile and Aubameyang two other completely different Forward Options, which make us harder to predict. The defense is not even a contest. We have one of the best back lines in terms of depth and peak strength in Europe.
So all in all we have improved ourselves in every area of the pitch bar the GK which has stayed the same.
We smashed that record in 12/13
Dortmund: 47 points, 45:13 goals, 15 wins, 2 draws
Bayern: 49 points, 54:11 goals, 16 wins, 1 draw
Agree with everything else though
If Kagawa gets his pre-United form back quickly (beyond a debut high), one of the strikers can effectively score and hold the ball up/ keep counter attacks moving quickly like Lewandowski did, and Gundogan gets his form back by the second half of the season then you'll be as good as anyone in Europe. I don't think all of that will happen though. Tbf, I haven't seen much of Ramos or Immobile, maybe they're a lot better than I've assumed.
Without Gotze and Lewandowski? Or did this happen last season?
Incredible manager. I hope he and Simeone stay at their clubs and establish both of their respective clubs into superpowers rather than moving to other rich clubs.
Götze missed the complete second half of the 11/12 season through injury and Lewandowski wasn't a world class striker back then, he developed into one the following 2 years.
I would agree and would go as far that this Dortmund team is overall the best since Klopp arrived. Lewandowski is the best striker in the world for me BUT his "replacement" Schieber never clicked in Dortmund.
Ciro is already very strong and Ramos is much stronger then Schieber so you could argue that their package isnt far of the striker package of last season.
Dortmund at full strength really is incredible.
Dortmund got 120 million this summer for selling parts of the club. They are debt free after nearly going broke in 2005, went from 6th in the Bundesliga to a Cl final in 3 years and created a new playing style.
All that with hard work. Atletico did similar things but I see the overall better story there.
Actually he is technically a better player than a lot of people gave him credit for, even in Dortmund. The issue with him last season was not only a new playstyle, system and position, but also that he focused too much on his pace to outplay the opposition.
Furthermore players are knownig to get their best after 1 season under Klopp. Lewandowskis first season wasnt that graet, Gündogans first half season was awful, Schmelzer, Piszczek and so on. It is pretty much difficult for them to adjust to that much more strain on them. From physical (look at how Kagawa was powered out after 60 Minutes) as well as tactical demands. Therefore it takes a while for players to fully click. Usually about a year.
Mkhitaryan could become a good example of it. He was really underperformed last season until the last few games of it. When Klopp then put him away from the centre which resulted in less pressure on him (to make the game), he started playing quite a bit better. All he needs now is to finally get over his goalscoring issue. At Donetsk he was actually quite a decent scorer, so I am confident it is only a mental thing. From interviews so far he also seems like someone putting a lot of pressure on himself (similar to Gündogan who was completely taken out of the team, not even on the bench, after his first half season and then pretty much improved by the game). I hope he will make it, because in Donetsk he was a great palyer and he seems to be a great and humble personality from his interviews.
He'll leave eventually and I hope that United will be in for him big time. Incredible how he loses his best players nearly every year and still makes them play mostly fantastic football. Not to mention that I love his attitude. He is proper crazy and a really funny guy.
Really? Zlatan says hello. Not to mention I would consider the likes of Messi as a striker if not a typical #9.
Messi isn't a striker, he clearly plays behind the striker, you can't shoehorn people, Lewandowski is as good as RVP/Aguero/Suarez/Falcao it's a fight between them, there isn't one CLEAR better player IMO since Ibra moved to France, he isn't tested at a high enough level for me to call him, but he's always been my one..
I have not watched Barca this season? But who does Messi play behind now? It was Messi flanked by Neymar and Sanchez last season. In fact I don't ever remember Messi playing behind a striker at Barca. I have seen him play as a wide forward when Eto'o was there and during Zlatan's time as well he played a similar role sometimes but he soon got back to playing centrally as he was obviously the best in the world.
For the NT he plays behind Higuain with Aguero, and for Barca I'd imagine Suaréz will take the centre role with Messi right, Neymar left
I wouldn't be so sure. I believe that "club managers" still exists and he can be one of them. (Of course nothing is certain in life).
I hope he stays with all my heart and soul as he is needed in Germany. Not just because im a Dortmund fan, but also to be the gap closer behind BM. It is not a good thing when one club gets to dominate TOO much:/
I'm curious, exactly who has Messi been playing behind for Barcelona for the last four years?
I'm curious whether the words you think you see are written anywhere, I stated
Clearly, very different, I then went on to explain it:
The only time I know of Messi playing behind a striker was Ibra, but I never said anything of the sort in that post, my overall point though FWIW is Messi isn't a striker, it's just because of his level of ability, that there are few attacking positions he wouldn't excel in.
But Messi hasn't played behind the striker for Barcelona in years now. He's played as the furthest player forward in the middle of the park. How are you claiming he 'plays behind the striker' when .. he doesn't, except for maybe the Argies who primarily use him there because they are basically forced to due to their attacking strength vs defensive strength.
What is this club hold up you have? I spoke about the NT too, but it's moot, I wasn't speaking about whether he plays behind the striker, that's just branched off, the point was, he doesn't play as a striker, which is true.
Playing as a no.9 and the furthest forward are very different, he regularly looks to drift out wide and Barcelona don't play with a conventional 9 as you know, therefore, they don't play with a striker. We won't agree, we are talking about the same fact, but simply how we describe it, getting away from the semantics, do you think he is the best 9 in the world? point of the conversation?
Anyway, Klopp thread n all, tag the post in Messi thread if you like, but I think we both agree, we are just coining the term differently.
"He clearly plays behind the striker" sort of implies that ... err ... there's a striker in front of him, despite the fact that there hasn't been at Barca, for like, four years. If you'd said "he doesn't play as a striker", it'd be a different point entirely.
He plays there for Argentina but his main role for his club is a striker. It's like calling Scholes a right winger 'cause he was played there for England.
I'm pretty sure. Because otherwise his English wouldn't have improved as much as it did over the last 2 years. Have you heard him talk English in his earlier years at Dortmund? It wasn't really any good but he improved tremendously on it, which means to me, that he certainly thinks about it.
The Bundesliga is done IMO. Just look at it. Dortmund managed to win the title 2010-11/11-12 because the Bayern Munich teams weren't anywhere near the level they are right now. Since then they signed the 2 best players from Dortmund, with a high probability the 3 will follow next year,not to mention guys like Martinez, Alonso and Benatia. They have a financial muscle to compete with any club in the world and Dortmund simply hasn't. I think that will be the reason why he'll leave eventually to a club where he can compete with any club in the world and have a stable set of players.
The great thing about this squad really is its depth. If there ever will be a time everyone is fit, it's practically able to adjust to any opposing team. A lot of people say that the best line up in offensive midfield would be:
Reus Kagawa Mkhitaryan
and while I agree that this would in deed be a force to be reckoned with, when playing against a team like Bayern, Klopp might actually go with something like this instead
Großkreutz Reus/Kagawa Kuba
I think a lot of people are still underestimating Großkreutz (man of the match yesterday) and Kuba (if he ever gets back). Those two do an incredible amount of work, being able to shine especially well in cooperation with their full back partner on their respective sides. Even on the full back position we have the ability to change things up, playing Durm when we want to put more pressure on our opponent through the wings and playing Schmelzer, who is more experienced and has far better positioning, against teams that shine themselves in those areas. And I don't even want to start with what kind of options we would have in central midfield if every player was fit for once. Up front is also better than last season. Yes, there was Lewandowski, but what came behind that? There was Schieber who couldn't even score on an open goal when two feet in front of it. Now there is a much bigger variety with Ramos being a pseudo Lewandowski who is more of a goal threat when the ball is crossed, Immobile who is a hard working poacher and Aubameyang who is probably the fastest player in the Bundesliga. The past two years Dortmunds football has become a lot easier to see through than it was before. This team now is trying to reverse this development. And that's why I'm so excited to finally see everyone playing together, which, fingers crossed, might just be the case in two months time.
Reus Kagawa Mkhitaryan
and while I agree that this would in deed be a force to be reckoned with, when playing against a team like Bayern, Klopp might actually go with something like this instead
Großkreutz Reus/Kagawa Kuba
I think a lot of people are still underestimating Großkreutz (man of the match yesterday) and Kuba (if he ever gets back). Those two do an incredible amount of work, being able to shine especially well in cooperation with their full back partner on their respective sides. Even on the full back position we have the ability to change things up, playing Durm when we want to put more pressure on our opponent through the wings and playing Schmelzer, who is more experienced and has far better positioning, against teams that shine themselves in those areas. And I don't even want to start with what kind of options we would have in central midfield if every player was fit for once. Up front is also better than last season. Yes, there was Lewandowski, but what came behind that? There was Schieber who couldn't even score on an open goal when two feet in front of it. Now there is a much bigger variety with Ramos being a pseudo Lewandowski who is more of a goal threat when the ball is crossed, Immobile who is a hard working poacher and Aubameyang who is probably the fastest player in the Bundesliga. The past two years Dortmunds football has become a lot easier to see through than it was before. This team now is trying to reverse this development. And that's why I'm so excited to finally see everyone playing together, which, fingers crossed, might just be the case in two months time.
And that improvement definitely can not be due to him playing Champions League with Dortmund, having to answer questions in English and actually getting to practice his English, which he couldn't when playing domestically. Nope, no way, there must be an ulterior motive to it.
With all due respect, this makes no sence at all. Sure, I have nothing to back up my arguemtns with either, but the fact that one is improving his lingual knowledge has nothing to do with anything. Also, English is/can be important to know if you have many players from around the world and they aren't very good at German yet. He wants to settle them into the team and make sure they understand everything he wants to communicate (known as good man- management). Simply put, he wants his players to understand him...
Look I don't know you but as I have the same mother tongue as Klopp I can guarantee you that Klopp didn't just practice it a bit, by talking to journalists like you make it sound, but that he extensively studied the English language. His improvement has been remarkable and listen to the difference between him and for example Magath, who is typically bad for a German trying to talk English.
But I guess Pep Guardiola also studied German before he got the Bayern Munich stint, or maybe he learned it because he visited Oktoberfest 2 years in a row?
What ? His English skills are decent but nothing special, that should be the minimum for anyone who works in such an international business. And has it ever crossed your mind that he might be eager to communicate with his players, with his colleagues from other countries, and with his beloved refs or that the club need his English to be on an acceptable level because he's every PR guy's wet dream and they are probably trying to use that potential in order to gain foreign fans/sponsors.
You think they talk English in Dortmunds training sessions? They hardly had any guys that didn't speak German but English, maybe Mkhitaryan or now Immobile. The foreigners they bought have mostly come from the Bundesliga and have already learned the German language to a certain degree. I don't think any club in the Bundesliga, except maybe Bayern Munich, uses another language than German in training.
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