Someone wrote Draxler has as much potential as Götze, if not more. That's like saying Bale has as much potential as Messi, if not more.
I'll live.
Gotze really has that much potential?
Julian Draxler
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Gotze really has that much potential?
Of course it was a bit of an exaggeration, but if we compare potential, I'd say the gap between Draxler/Bale (I rate both at a similar level) and Götze is signficantly bigger than between Götze and Messi. Götze is in Germany usually seen as the greatest German talent since Matthäus, if not Beckenbauer.
Potential doesn't mean a lot though, if he continues to struggle with injuries, he might never live up to the hype. But after what happened with Deisler, I really hope we won't be that unlucky again. I doubt, even Schalke fans see Draxler in the same class as Götze, at least that's the impression I get when I read at the biggest German football forum.
What type of player is Gotze at his best? and I remember Diesler he had a lot of injuries and that poor mentality iirc.
Deisler already struggled with depression before he signed for Bayern, he never wanted the hype around him and was really lost. Probably it was a mistake but he was just way too good to not sign for a top club. With his countless injuries, mainly at his knee, the depression got worse and in the end he completely lost the trust in his body and stopped playing football way too early. Sad story, he was a brilliant player.
I'm still not sure what type of player Götze will become, watching his development and what role he'll play in the team this season will be incredibly exciting. He's a great dribbler, has brilliant decision making under pressure, most of the time finds a solution in tight spaces. His passing range is very good, not brilliant yet, but it's still a bit too early to say how good it might become, I don't think he lacks vision, so I'm sure it will get better and better over the years. He's quick with the ball at his feet and loves to move directly towards goal. His finishing needs improvement, but that's not unusual for his age either. He has everything I want from a number 10.
He gave an interview last week in which he said "I love to play through the middle, but somehow everyone else thinks it's better if I play out wide".
I think he made the next step in his development last season, when Holtby was sold and he was played as an AM for the rest of the season. He also started this season there but now with Boateng in the team he plays on the left again. It's probably the best for the team right now, but I don't see why he shouldn't be a great AM in the future. Still think Max Meyer is the bigger talent though.
More of a Fabregas type than an Ozil?
Draxler? I'd say right now he looks more like a wide forward, maybe a mix between Reus and Bale (type not quality)
Wow - Matthäus & Beckenbauer. I knew he was highly rated, he is one of the best young players in the world & that is an understatement, but I had no idea he was so revered by the German fans themselves. I've not seen him a whole lot, I only watch him in the Bundesliga on occasion, it is mostly CL games & the internationals, so I cannot judge really. Balu, do you personally agree with the hype? Do you predict that he hits such heights (to be considered one of the greatest of his generation, at least), or do you think that such expectation is a little over the top?
I always thought Götze was a truely special talent, he stood out in an incredibly talented generation of young German attacking players including Özil, Reus, Müller. I started to be a bit annoyed by the hype in Germany when he was constantly called the German Messi, though. Right now, I just hope he stays fit and I can watch him play for my team. I believe he's talented enough to become the standout player of this Bayern team in the next 2,3 years. No idea what that'll mean for his standing in comparison to former greats, but I'm sure it'll be amazing to follow his development.
Mario Götze is the biggest talent of the current German generation, which means a lot given the amount of talent we have.
Taking his age into account, he is in some departments heads and shoulders above his competition. His close control on the ball is pretty much unrivaled with only Özil coming close.
The points, which justified most of the hype around him for me were his consistency and maturity on the pitch. At the age of 19 he put a struggling Dortmund side on his shoulders and carried them for around a dozen games, which later became the start of an incredible series for them. At that time it became appearant that he was the real deal and could become a candidate for the Ball d´or some day.
If he can fulfill his extreme potential still remains to be seen and mostly depends on two things:
The first and more obvious one will be his injuries. For such a short career, he already suffered from a lot of injuries and he needs to hope to not turn out to be extremely injury prone.
The second will be the question, how he will handle the medial attention of his person. One of the biggest differences between Bayern and Dortmund is still the amount of attention the players receive. Dortmund may have caught up there, but Munich still remains the main focus of the medial eye in Germany. The officials of Dortmund, especially Klopp, also make an active afford to shield the players from too much praise or criticism and try to develop them in a calm enviroment. This would be to such an extent not even possible in Munich.
I still think that the point in time (the destination was logical) of the transfer was not well chosen by Götze. For me he would have benifited more from one or two additional seasons under Klopp at Dortmund before moving on. Even if he would have stagnated on his current level, he would still be a prime target of all European top clubs at the age of 22 or 23, so the risk was very slim for him. But in the end Götze had a different opinion in that matter.
I'll take yours and Balu's word for it. To be honest, despite watching Gotze for ages I still don't understand him as a player.. he's never really excited me and yet everyone is in agreement that he is the german Messi. Weird, I think I just need to watch more of him.
Fair enough, that's high praise when you think about some of the players at Bayern at the minute. I'll definitely keep a closer eye on German football, & Bayern in specific, this year. It will make a nice change to all the La Liga & PL I watch.
Must say I agree with what you said about his maturity on the pitch - he really did carry Dortmund at times, I think Lewandowski received too much credit with such an impressive supporting cast behind him. It's fair to say that he, alongside Neymar & co, will be up there for the Ballon D'Or in a few years should he develop properly - again I haven't watched him too much, but from the glimpses I could tell he's got a very unique talent about him. I also don't know what it is, but he seems to not play in a very German way, make of that what you will (not criticizing German or non-German styles, just an observation), but watching him you'd think with his flair he was Italian or Spanish. I don't know what is in the water there in Germany, but you watch Thomas Muller & Mesut Ozil from the 2010 WC and you are blown away by how composed they are, playing like seasoned veterans. Germany are going to be such a force by the 2018 WC, perhaps unstoppable.
You're spot on with the comparisons between Bayern and BVB. He's going to face a big challenge adapting to playing at a club that isn't the football hipsters' favourite. Bayern are like United in the way that everyone in their league wants to watch them fail, & any mistake he makes will be analyzed to bits in every single German paper, of this I am sure. Everything he does will be scrutinized like never before, and it's up to him to make the step up. Not that I think it will be a huge problem, though - he seems a very confident person and coped well, perhaps even improved, when he started to become a bit of a superstar at BVB. Germans are lucky bastards at the minute, if they could sort out their defence for the future, they will be a bit of a dream team.
I personally think Ozil is more talented than Gotze.
So more about directness than guile?
I agree with you. I have the same feeling with Muller, who is obviously a terrific player, but I have never understood the hype when I've watched him play.
Gotze is the biggest talent, just injuries have caused him to go off the radar.
Once he's fit and playing regularly we'll have the usual Caf knee jerk reaction and he'll be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I think Ozil is overrated on here, especially those that think he's clearly a level or two above the likes of Gotze, Kroos and Muller.
Once he's fit and playing regularly we'll have the usual Caf knee jerk reaction and he'll be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I think Ozil is overrated on here, especially those that think he's clearly a level or two above the likes of Gotze, Kroos and Muller.
I think everyone with a good football brain will agree. I like Gotze but some off the loving above is too much.
Gotze is a brilliant player, but his progression has stalled a bit, and not just due to injuries. I don't see that much difference between the kid who broke through three seasons ago and the player of today. Of course I don't watch as much of him as the German posters here do, but kind of feel like he is in the Rooney bracket of talent than the Ronaldo one. And I prefer Ozil over Gotze too.
Goetz has a couple of years to make up for his lost time. Hopefully he finds a permanent position and gets some continuity.
What is his preferred/best/destined position BTW?
What is his preferred/best/destined position BTW?
I think he's amazing. Of all the young players right now out there, he's the most exciting for me. His intelligence, quick thinking, technical ability, goal threat , its all so effortless with him. He's pretty much got everything. Even I haven't seen all that much of him but his talent is just instantly noticeable.
Tough one. I'm a fan of Ozil, he's got such an amazing weight of pass and so much time on the ball, but Gotze is much more explosive. He's much more likely to play a one two, beat a man and slot the ball into the top corner. Different kind of players, and hard to compare.
At least there's one who still wants to talk about Draxler. Yes, he's a very direct player. He's not the one orchestrating attacks, constantly creating something or dropping deep and helping out in midfield. I'd say he can be a great player in the middle for a counterattacking team, for most other teams he's better used as a wide forward/inverse winger type of player. He's still incredibly young though and he showed glimpses that are promising for a more creative role, so maybe that side of his game could become more important
I write something to Götze and Özil later in the Götze thread.
With Muller I can appreciate him because I understand his limitations and am impressed with his strengths, everyone acknowledges that he's a weird player to define and nor is he lauded as an entertainer, its his effectiveness and movement into space which is renowned.
This is a performance out of context i.e. he's coming back from injury but even in his normal performances, there's no major spark for me personally, he's neat and tidy but nowhere near as electrifying as Ronaldo or Messi for me, but when so many people are in agreement you have to take a step back and just wait until it clicks. I'm sure he'll be a major component in Bayern's CL run this year and in the World Cup and I'll be thinking how could I not have noticed it.
That's interesting, I've not seen a lot of him but I felt that he seemed more about power and pace in attack as opposed to being a crafty player, I wonder if Germany may consider him more of an impact sub than a starter give his attributes. How is his intelligence when it comes to decision making and passing?
His decision making significantly improved in the second part of last season, but he's still inconsistent in everything he does, so it's hard to tell what was a good run or real quality.
If no one's injured, he will struggle to become an impact sub for the nationalteam, at least for the world cup. I don't think it's very likely he'll become a starter the next years. The 4 attacking players will be Özil, Müller, Reus and Götze and then there's also Kroos who could come in, if one of those 4 is missing. If we play with a striker, 2 of those 5 will already be benched, then it's even more difficult for him to play. I'm not even sure if he's definitely a part of the squad for Brazil, he has to fight for the left winger spot against Reus, Schürrle and Podolski. It really depends on how Schürrle's and Podolski's season will play out.
If no one's injured, he will struggle to become an impact sub for the nationalteam, at least for the world cup. I don't think it's very likely he'll become a starter the next years. The 4 attacking players will be Özil, Müller, Reus and Götze and then there's also Kroos who could come in, if one of those 4 is missing. If we play with a striker, 2 of those 5 will already be benched, then it's even more difficult for him to play. I'm not even sure if he's definitely a part of the squad for Brazil, he has to fight for the left winger spot against Reus, Schürrle and Podolski. It really depends on how Schürrle's and Podolski's season will play out.
I think Gotze and Ozil are both slightly overrated on here. In fact, a good number of players who are talked about in transfer threads are generally overhyped by the tards here.
The really don't need him imo, he plays best as a 10 or from the left they already have Ozil, Cazorla, Wilshere and Ramsey to squeeze in. They need a striker and a cb.
He says a lot of things about transfers
Like he knows Kagawa will be a Dortmund player in January
And that Arsenal have big interest in Draxler isn't a new information
He was the first one to tweet about Ozil to Arsenal though.
Yup! Let's say it is true though, and who'd have thought Arsenal would be a club to start stockpiling players!! I don't see him going there tbh, but we shoud be interested though....I hope!
He might not be totally necessary at the minute but he's only 20. If Wenger rates him highly enough he could be too good to turn down. You're potentially getting 10+ years of a world class talent.
I hope we are. Like Sally said that is potentially your left wing sorted for a decade.
Al Jazeera have said "100% done deal" hours before Fjortoft's tweet.
He sounds like the baddie in an 80s action movie.
Apparently Sidney Sam from Leverkusen is set to sign for Schalke (next summer), which means they're probably preparing for Draxlers departure? Hopefully we're in for him, although I suspect he'll go to Arsenal, or maybe even Bayern to replace Ribery in a year or 2.
Isn't Sam a right winger? Same position that Farfan plays. Maybe we're buying Farfan! I wouldn't mind that really. He's a good player. A different, more versatile version of Valencia. Some would say a better version.
Yes, Sam usually plays on the right for Leverkusen. I doubt that's a preparation for Draxler leaving. Sam for 2.5m is a bargain and Schalke clearly lacks some depth in attack, so he certainly is just a great buy to strengthen the team. If Draxler leaves they definitely will spend big money on another quality attacking player.
He can play every position in the offensive midfield, although he mostly operated on the right flank for Leverkusen in this season while their Korean Son occupied the left side.